Raycaster Posted July 25, 2016 Report Posted July 25, 2016 Finished installing the fold away coupler for the trailer but still have to put a new chain on. Again, not really sure on my trailer or boat specs so the chart suggestions are kinda ballpark still. I have a 22' tandem axle pontoon trailer with a small 16' pontoon. The old chain had unsafe links, was rusty and now I have to extend from behind the coupling so its new chain time. Can i pick up the chain and bolts at PA? Suggestions on chain size and also what type "shiny, hot dipped etc" Thx ahead.
Tom McCutcheon Posted July 25, 2016 Report Posted July 25, 2016 I'm not sure, but I think there is something in the MTO regulations that say the safety chain needs to be high strength steel? You know, the gold coloured stuff.
Raycaster Posted July 25, 2016 Author Report Posted July 25, 2016 Not sure about gold colored chains but most chains are high strength steel with their diameter dictating their towing safety specs. Although most new chains will be 100% better than my old ones I'm just wondering how heavy duty I need to go.
cheaptackle Posted July 25, 2016 Report Posted July 25, 2016 PA probably has your answer. However, according to what I just read on E-laws for Ontarion, generally speaking with chains the LINK strength (and the hooks) must each equal or exceed the GVWR of the trailer. Simply put, if your trailer when loaded was rated by the manufacturer as say 5,000 pounds maximum, then the links (individual ones) must be able to bear the 5,000 pounds or more and so on. I'm assuming that you don't know your GVWR for the trailer for some reason, either the data plate is missing or it's not on your ownership. So, a quick down and dirty would be (based on your tandem layout) 4 x the individual tire weight rating which will be on the tires. If that adds up to say 7,000 pounds I'd go a bit heavier if it's feasible. Hope this helps! Michael
Tom McCutcheon Posted July 25, 2016 Report Posted July 25, 2016 Better answer than mine.....LOL Certainly better explained.
Raycaster Posted July 25, 2016 Author Report Posted July 25, 2016 Thank you for the replies guys, yes of course I'll go heavier for the safer option. My trailer is a used tandem axle that has been modified for pontoon use with any specs long gone or simply not applicable any more due to the mods. I will look into the "4 x the individual tire weight rating" for sure. Again thx for the help.
Old Ironmaker Posted July 25, 2016 Report Posted July 25, 2016 I would also be concerned as to chain length. Not much good if they are close to the ground and won't catch the trailer if it un couples. Princess Auto will know your chain break strength requirements, they should. Wormdunker probably knows as he is a Hoisting Engineer.
cheaptackle Posted July 25, 2016 Report Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) Another way to get the details (I've done this) - hook 'er up and run over the scales at the dump/landfill/transfer station. Unhook and drive the tow vehicle back over. Deduct tow vehicle weight from total weight and voila! Now you have a starting point. I prefer the 4 x tire rating though, one true fact is you can't go wrong by having too strong of a chain AND you might be carrying a lighter boat now, but what about tomorrow? Besides, if you do get stopped there'll be a lot less argument if your chains are rated for the max of the trailer as oppose to the max of what you might be doing with it. Let us know what you find out/do to solve this, it'll be good to hear. Michael (ps - longshot but check to see if you can find the weight rating on the axles - they're probably in the 2500 to 5000 lb range or so, total of them would be an excellent guide, tires can have different load ranges than the axles) Edited July 25, 2016 by cheaptackle
Raycaster Posted July 25, 2016 Author Report Posted July 25, 2016 Tom, I think your on to something with the gold chains. They seem to be Grade 70 Transport Chain.
bare foot wader Posted July 25, 2016 Report Posted July 25, 2016 the MTO doesn't specify any particular type of chain, just that it needs to be sufficient strength to prevent detachment in event of a hitch failure...so basically the chain has to have a min breaking strength of whatever you are towing the gold grade 70 at PA is overkill for towing a boat, but of course it works just fine...you could save a few bucks per foot though, if that matters somebody mentioned hook strength too...very important point! I always see guys using the large size carbineers from the hardware section, because they are quick and easy...those things suck, they aren't rated for towing and they fold out straight like a paper clip lol I think it's actually the MTO farm guide that talks about safety chains if you wanted to google it up
misfish Posted July 25, 2016 Report Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) the MTO doesn't specify any particular type of chain, just that it needs to be sufficient strength to prevent detachment in event of a hitch failure...so basically the chain has to have a min breaking strength of whatever you are towing the gold grade 70 at PA is overkill for towing a boat, but of course it works just fine...you could save a few bucks per foot though, if that matters somebody mentioned hook strength too...very important point! I always see guys using the large size carbineers from the hardware section, because they are quick and easy...those things suck, they aren't rated for towing and they fold out straight like a paper clip lol I think it's actually the MTO farm guide that talks about safety chains if you wanted to google it up I am sure the S hooks are eligal as well. Must be a secure connection to the hitch/reciever. The chain should not be draging on the ground. You want to chain to craddel the hitch. And yes like said, cross the chains. Carbineers are the cats meow. You can also use the thread lock links. I find they get harder to thread lock in, as time goes by. Princess auto or Brafasco would be my choice to purchase new chain. Edited July 25, 2016 by Brian B
DRIFTER_016 Posted July 25, 2016 Report Posted July 25, 2016 When I needed to replace my chains I just got a set of these from BPS. Love the spring clips on them. http://www.basspro.com/Trailer-Safety-Chains-with-Spring-Clips/product/1108311649143/
G.mech Posted July 26, 2016 Report Posted July 26, 2016 Everything you ever wanted to know about safety chains and more: http://www.cerka.ca/catalog/76.asp
wormdunker Posted July 26, 2016 Report Posted July 26, 2016 (edited) Ironmaker - To comment on chains I can tell you that 1/4" chain has a WLL (working load limit) of 2,800 lbs with a built in safety factor of 5. This means the chain will break at ( 5 X 2,800 = 14,000 lbs). This applies to a vertical pull. If the chains are not vertical, but at an angle the values decrease. B S = breaking strength. WLL = working load limit - sometimes also referred to SWL (safe working load). 3/8" diameter chain WLL 5,680 lbs B S (5 X 5,680 = 28,400 lbs) The above values are used for Grade T (8) alloy steel. Also these values only apply to steel chains manufactured in Canada or the USA. Every manufacturer has their own rating for chain & steel cable. To be sure of your purchase ask the retailer to supply the ratings for that particular chain. Hooks also have a rating chart. Rust, & deformation of the links will greatly reduce the rating as well. Edited July 26, 2016 by wormdunker
Old Ironmaker Posted July 26, 2016 Report Posted July 26, 2016 I would think the weak point of the chain is either the hook as stated before and the connection to the trailer itself. I see many self tapping bolts that are rusted to all heck and cracks in the tongue where the bolt is attached. I think that connection should be a shoulder threaded stainless through bolt if it isn't. I need to look at my trailer.
Mister G Posted July 26, 2016 Report Posted July 26, 2016 My new trailer has spring loaded cables instead of chains...... BTW is the chain is a little bit long, just twist the chain to shorten them to the length you desire.
Old Ironmaker Posted July 26, 2016 Report Posted July 26, 2016 My new trailer has spring loaded cables instead of chains...... BTW is the chain is a little bit long, just twist the chain to shorten them to the length you desire. Wouldn't that give you a kink in the chain? I know for sure that kinks in the crane chains was a no go for a lift.
Mister G Posted July 26, 2016 Report Posted July 26, 2016 Wouldn't that give you a kink in the chain? I know for sure that kinks in the crane chains was a no go for a lift. Lifted over 50 ton that way and never a break in 30 years.... When pulling with a chain they just break and the broken links fly like a bullet. But using a cable you can see them unraveling for a warning......no warning when a chain breaks.
misfish Posted July 26, 2016 Report Posted July 26, 2016 My new trailer has spring loaded cables instead of chains...... BTW is the chain is a little bit long, just twist the chain to shorten them to the length you desire. Theres a millwright trick right there. Good call sir G
wormdunker Posted July 27, 2016 Report Posted July 27, 2016 I like the idea of the spring loaded cables. As stated above you can see a cable start to deteriorate, whereas a chain needs a thorough inspection of each link before being put into use. For this reason chains are not allowed to be used for hoisting on some construction sites. 25 years ago chains were not allowed on any site in Ontario.
Tybo Posted July 27, 2016 Report Posted July 27, 2016 The thing,about wire rope. You truly don't know what is is happening to the centre core until strands start to brake on the out side.. Now you are using them under no load conditions.If the centre core is rotten,(which happens a lot with no load ropes.)When needed the rope lets go. I'll stay with my chains on trailers and only Kevlar slings at work.
Mister G Posted July 27, 2016 Report Posted July 27, 2016 The thing,about wire rope. You truly don't know what is is happening to the centre core until strands start to brake on the out side.. Now you are using them under no load conditions.If the centre core is rotten,(which happens a lot with no load ropes.)When needed the rope lets go. I'll stay with my chains on trailers and only Kevlar slings at work. Are you referring to a hemp core cable, because if you are those are dangerous and we almost lost a man because a contractor had them on the job.
Tybo Posted July 27, 2016 Report Posted July 27, 2016 Are you referring to a hemp core cable, because if you are those are dangerous and we almost lost a man because a contractor had them on the job. Never use hemp core.Heard of it but never use.It's been a very long time since I use wire rope slings.
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