New Moose Regs - Hmmmmmmm

[TJQ]

New regs may be coming down the pipe... what do you think??

 

 

As part of the Moose Project, the MNRF has proposed two significant changes to moose hunting across much of northern Ontario. The first, to take effect in 2015, is a reduction in calf hunting opportunities. Currently, moose hunters can harvest a calf under the authority of their provincial moose licence. Under the new proposal, calf harvest in northern Ontario would be prohibited outside of a two-week period in October.

While the OFAH acknowledges that some Wildlife Management Units would benefit from a reduction in calf harvest, we argue a two-week calf season is overly restrictive and could result in crowding and poor hunt quality while making it difficult for hunters to accommodate fluctuations in weather, work schedules and hunting preferences. The OFAH calls for a phased-in approach to ensure hunting opportunities are not prematurely and unnecessarily restricted. This would also provide the MNRF with an opportunity to assess the effectiveness of any management changes.

The second proposal involves delaying the start of the gun hunt by one week. This change would not take effect until 2016, but the OFAH has major concerns with this proposal. The existing adult tag allocation system already allows biologists to tightly control the harvest of adult moose, which makes the season delay redundant and therefore unnecessary.

 

Whole story here:

 

http://mnrwatch.com/ontarios-sweeping-moose-project-proposal-leaves-hunters-reeling/

[Rod Caster]

Severely restrictive moose hunts based on population loss concerns; yet just next door our native friends hunt based on what?

 

I agree with putting in additional restrictions, being a large tasty animal in todays world is not easy without full, cooperative managment.

[AKRISONER]

Good luck winning the native debate. Not far from when they strung a gill net across byng inlet during the walley spawn. shoot a deer, they are easier.

 

Canada still allows polar bears to be shot too. IMO any further conservation efforts are good ones, no one actually hunting moose relies on their meat as their soul food source anyways. Pay to play as normal.

 

This makes me laugh " overly restrictive and could result in crowding and poor hunt quality while making it difficult for hunters to accommodate fluctuations in weather, work schedules and hunting preferences. "

[akaShag]

Like the OFAH says, THIS government only wants to handle licenced and law-abiding moose HUNTERS, not the moose populations per se. As long as licenced hunters continue to bear the brunt of ALL moose population rehabilitation (or even stabilization) efforts, the plans are doomed to failure.

 

I admit I do not like the moose calf harvest, but it is about the most palatable alternative for hunters who look forward year by year to their annual hunt. If there are not enough adult moose to sustain the population, killing calves is not likely to help. BUT! I don't think that many calves are actually harvested, so at least hunters have an opportunity to get out in the moose woods.

 

I am going to hunt moose this year in the Yukon.......................and know lots of guys who are hunting moose in Quebec and Newfoundland instead of Ontario. Lost revenue for lots of central and Northern Ontario communities who depend on moose hunters for some of their income.

 

Doug

[Rod Caster]

 

 

Canada still allows polar bears to be shot too. IMO any further conservation efforts are good ones, no one actually hunting moose relies on their meat as their soul food source anyways. Pay to play as normal.

 

 

Maybe not sole food source, but it can be an important food source and it should be respected as a Canadian tradition. If the population was healthy around here, and I could reasonably expect to get a tag, I'd love to down a moose and yes, it would replace a whole bunch of grocery store trucked meat.

 

I know nothing of polar bears; if the populations can sustain a hunt then go ahead.

[Steve]

my uncle hunts moose.

 

the amount of money he has tied up in his hunting toys could buy his family meat until his kids have their own grand kids.

 

let's face it. folks hunt for the sport of hunting.

 

the resulting food is a bonus.

 

and there isn't a single thing wrong with that.

 

 

edit: spelling.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Steve

[Gerritt]

my uncle hunts moose.

 

the amount of money he has tied up in his hunting toys could buy his family meat until his kids have their own grand kids.

 

let's face it. folks hunt for the sport of hunting.

 

the resulting food is a bonus.

 

and there isn't a single thing wrong with that.

 

 

edit: spelling.

That said, and you are correct.... Is not what hunting was meant to be.... It was to put food on the table.

 

Now it's about bling, camp patterns etc.... Anything to sell something....

 

Consumerism.

 

G

[irishfield]

Sounds like fishing...

[TJQ]

Sounds like fishing...

 

 

LOL..

[Steve]

sure does

[akaShag]

I am unable to do a "cut and paste" or "quote" on this board, which can be a PITA...............

 

But ANYWAYS, back to Gerritt............I do not agree at all with your premise. I have been hunting for almost fifty years, and I can tell you that, in Canada, in the modern era, hunting is MUCH, MUCH more than "putting food on the table." That may have been one of the primary reasons that past generations hunted, but I am certain (having read books from long ago) that mere food is just one of the reasons our ancestors hunted, and just one of the reasons why we modern-day hunters go out. It is about connecting with the land and nature in a very primeval way, taking everything in with all of one's senses, sometimes (but not often) having an opportunity to take an animal, and then taking that animal and making it into food. The experience is far more than killing something for food.

 

"BLING" might be part of some people's experience, but I guarantee that MOST hunters do not hunt for the opportunity to show off their toys.

 

Do YOU hunt? (If you don't mind me asking?)

Doug

[Steve]

i agree with everything you wrote Doug. What you outline is the reason I fish.

 

But, my uncle often takes guided hunts in which they "bait" animals....sometimes going as far as watching individual animals on trail cams to the point they name them and pre plan when they are going to shoot the animal.

 

That kinda goes against your theory.

 

Do you take guided hunts and do you bait?

[TJQ]

"BLING" might be part of some people's experience, but I guarantee that MOST hunters do not hunt for the opportunity to show off their toys.

 

 

 

I try to show off my 1964 sears and roebuck 30:06 with the cracked stock.. nobody wants to see that "bling" lol.. Huntings much much more than what equipment you have.. lol.. thats only for steelheaders and muskie fishermen!! LOL.. Im gonna get some blowback for that one!! (oh and maybe carp fishermen...)

[akaShag]

back to Steve............yes that is also why I fish, and (when I was still able to do so), did cross-country skiing, snowshoeing, canoeing, back-country camping, etc. It is all about connecting with the land and with "Mother Nature," in all her glories.

 

I have not done a guided hunt, but have no philosophical objection to them. The extreme which you mention does sound that - very extreme, and I wonder if it is what most of us might call a "canned" hunt, ie one behind an enclosure where the "wild" animals really are not so wild at all. Most hunters have a personal boundary of what constitutes, for them, fair chase and by extension, for them what is "sportsmanlike." I suppose the gender-neutral term would be "sporting."

 

Baiting is a pretty emotional topic, even amongst hunters. For example: If a person wants to hunt black bears in Ontario, his or her chances of even SEEING a bear on a give day afield, without baiting, are maybe one in a hundred thousand in most areas of the province where there is an open season. It might be one in ten thousand or one in a million, in other words an order of magnitude one way or the other. Regardless, that's pretty slim odds. Consider, if you will, my own experience. I am a pretty good hunter and have taken over a hundred Ontario white-tailed deer, with bow, rifle, shotgun and muzzle-loader. I hunt MANY days every year in pursuit of deer. In my Ontario hunting experience, I have hunted roughly half of my days in areas that also hold black bear. I have never seen a single black bear whilst hunting. Not one, in hundreds of days afield over many years. In the last few years I have been hunting with a camp not far from here where bears are present, and where bait is put out for the bears. In three years of hunting over bait, I did not see one bear. In that camp, one bear was shot this year, and one three years ago. Hunting over bait also allows hunters a chance to see if the bear is a boar or a sow, and whether there are any cubs around. Virtually no hunter will shoot a sow, and especially one with cubs. So baiting has its place, IN MY OPINION, for hunting Ontario black bear.

 

Baiting for other species has its pros and its cons, and of course is illegal for some species. But in general, if baiting allows a hunter to take a humane shot at an animal the hunter determines to be legal and one that he/she wants to kill, yes I am in favour of baiting. To use a fishing analogy, I also used to put chum down for whitefish, since my own experience fishing for whities without chum was not exactly spectacular.

 

Sorry for the long-winded response, but it seems to me that anglers and hunters have enough "ANTIS" arrayed against us that those of us who hunt and fish need to stand together and not bicker at each other over perceived differences. We need to correct thinking that we think is wrong, as I was trying to do in my response to Gerritt - but at the end of the day we need to stand united.

 

JMOYMV

Doug

[Steve]

that you for that long winded response. It was very well done and greatly appreciated.

 

And I also agree to stand united.

 

I will never ever shoot an animal. But I will not look down at another who does.

[akaShag]

Thank you Steve, I deeply appreciate that. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart.

 

Doug

[Gerritt]

I am unable to do a "cut and paste" or "quote" on this board, which can be a PITA...............

 

But ANYWAYS, back to Gerritt............I do not agree at all with your premise. I have been hunting for almost fifty years, and I can tell you that, in Canada, in the modern era, hunting is MUCH, MUCH more than "putting food on the table." That may have been one of the primary reasons that past generations hunted, but I am certain (having read books from long ago) that mere food is just one of the reasons our ancestors hunted, and just one of the reasons why we modern-day hunters go out. It is about connecting with the land and nature in a very primeval way, taking everything in with all of one's senses, sometimes (but not often) having an opportunity to take an animal, and then taking that animal and making it into food. The experience is far more than killing something for food.

 

"BLING" might be part of some people's experience, but I guarantee that MOST hunters do not hunt for the opportunity to show off their toys.

 

Do YOU hunt? (If you don't mind me asking?)

 

Doug

I hunted since it seems before I could walk... I also fished for the same time period... Hunting and fishing was a way of life in my family.... Often it was what was for dinner on the table.... Right from the lake or bush.

 

My grandfather made sure we knew and respected the outdoors.

 

We hunted to put meat in the freezer. Not for the party or the drinking... Mind you I was a young boy/man at the time... I was included till I was around 21 maybe a bit earlier.... Then my grandparents sold their property on lake St. John.... Haven't hunted since.... (Even then it was about brand names, patterns and $$$$..... Hunting is a lot more expensive then fishing imho. I can buy a cheap rod and reel for 49 bucks.... Try and do the same for a cheap firearm...

 

Then add the bling.

 

G

[TJQ]

 

Even then it was about brand names, patterns and $$$$.

 

Must have been your group then.. cause for me its never ever been about who had the best equipment with the guys /gals i hunt with.. it was always about who could shoot the straightest, and the friendship, and maybe the exhausted evenings glass of rye.. Been skunked many many times and never considered the trip a "failure" unless i lost at poker... then.......

[akaShag]

well Gerritt I guess we can agree on some things and disagree on others, and I am sorry your family hunting experience was not one that you seem to want to continue.

 

All of the outdoor sports are expensive these days. Take a look at what a pair of snowshoes costs!!!!!! But yes for sure it is possible to hunt on a limited budget, just as it is possible to fish on a limited budget. LICENCES are much more money for the hunter, but travel expenses are similar and really so are gear expenses if a person knows what they are doing. YES I can buy a firearm for fifty bucks, and less (for example).

 

But let's agree to disagree about bling. The guy with the hundred thousand dollar bass boat has quite a few more shekels invested that the guy with the fancy ATV and hunting clothing. And bless them both!!!

Doug

[akaShag]

Back to TJQ.............yep, pretty much the same as my experiences, nobody was judging their fellow hunters by the value of their kit...........

 

Doug

[Rod Caster]

What is a camp pattern???

[akaShag]

I think that was a typo and he intended to say "CAMO" pattern..................

 

..........or not..............in which case I am also curious..............

 

Doug

[AKRISONER]

 

I try to show off my 1964 sears and roebuck 30:06 with the cracked stock.. nobody wants to see that "bling" lol.. Huntings much much more than what equipment you have.. lol.. thats only for steelheaders and muskie fishermen!! LOL.. Im gonna get some blowback for that one!! (oh and maybe carp fishermen...)

 

 

dont forget large mouth bass fisherman...lots of 6 figure boats.

[anders]

Moose hunting for me is about meat and food for the table. I take pride in not purchasing beef at the grocery store. On occasion when my wife wants to make chili will we buy ground beef, but that is the extent of it. All other red meat we eat is moose. Moose hunting will never be about the "bling" or the sport of it, is it fun and connecting with nature and others....absolutely! There are years where we go without harvesting one, but i am fortunate to be part of a great trio that will get called for road kills....in other words, moose is a way of life for us that we have dived head first into.

 

Us legal sportsmen, hunters and fisherman included like it was stated before, we need to stick together

[Rod Caster]

Moose hunting for me is about meat and food for the table. I take pride in not purchasing beef at the grocery store. On occasion when my wife wants to make chili will we buy ground beef, but that is the extent of it. All other red meat we eat is moose. Moose hunting will never be about the "bling" or the sport of it, is it fun and connecting with nature and others....absolutely! There are years where we go without harvesting one, but i am fortunate to be part of a great trio that will get called for road kills....in other words, moose is a way of life for us that we have dived head first into.

 

Us legal sportsmen, hunters and fisherman included like it was stated before, we need to stick together

A good response from a true N.Ont. Hunter/outdoorsman.

 

I gotta get myself on that list, at least for deer.