Proposed Military Testing Site in Haliburton/Baptiste/Benoir

[Steve1991]

Interesting article in the Haliburton Echo this morning. Looks like this officially puts the Armatec proposal to rest.

 

http://www.newspapers-online.com/haliburton/?p=4305

[mattaw]

That is wonderful news. After the suggested rezoning got denied by council in late March, this was the hope. It looks like they won't be taking this to the OMB. Great news for the lakes and their health as well as the tourism industry in the area

Edited April 8, 2014 by mattaw

[BillM]

That is wonderful news. After the suggested rezoning got denied by council in late March, this was the hope. It looks like they won't be taking this to the OMB. Great news for the lakes and their health as well as the tourism industry in the area

 

Why would you think the lakes would suffer at all?

[chris.brock]

I'm pretty sure mattaw isn't worried about nuclear fallout, I'm guessing it's basically nobody wants something like this in their backyard, I don't blame him

 

the lakes suffer more when we hack out our lots, and manicure our shorelines

[John Bacon]

 

I think the short answer to that question is that it's close to CFB Petawawa

 

I wouldn't consider it be close. Benior Lake to Petawawa is about a 2.5 hour drive per Google Maps.

[Steve]

rich property owners got what they wanted....

 

not surprising in this great country of ours.

[chris.brock]

I have a cottage in Haliburton, I'm far from rich, you've been to 30+ Leaf games, with friends, free of charge in the last few years, who's throwing stones here?

 

You guys should make a little noise at the game instead of making business deals

[Steve]

i'm a business man and appreciate job creation.

 

just another example of nimby'ism.

 

Armatec will just find another plot of land...and this time they'll make sure they are in a less affluent area ......

[mattaw]

 

Why would you think the lakes would suffer at all?

 

I worry because a project like this hasn't been done in Canada before. So we don't know what the effect is. Benoir is an important spawning place for the lake chain, there could be no ill effect, or it could be terrible, the point is we don't know. If you look up survivability testing, it's driving tanks and APCs across large trails, as well as detonating explosives beneath them. Before I could say the lakes would NOT suffer at all, there would have to be a lot of proof over large periods of time showing that.

 

i'm a business man and appreciate job creation.

 

just another example of nimby'ism.

 

Armatec will just find another plot of land...and this time they'll make sure they are in a less affluent area ......

 

I appreciate job creation, but I also appreciate job loss. Tourism is a major economic driver for that area, as is the income provided from the residents that are there for cottaging. If you had a choice between buying a cottage (or booking your hard earned vacation) on a pristine lake that is beautiful and untouched vs a cottage for the same price on a lake with a testing facility beside it, which would you pick? As a result, the visitors to the region go elsewhere and all that income (and redistribution of that income to secondary businesses within the local community) gets displaced to another community. So the question is, is there a net benefit to it hypothetically being built.

 

I absolutely don't want it in my backyard, for reasons that directly impact me, but also for reasons that impact one of the places I love and the community around it. Hopefully that clears a few things up.

Edited April 10, 2014 by mattaw

[singingdog]

Based on Armatech's proposal I would choose them as a neighbor over a shoreline of typical cottagers with 2 stroke outboards, snowmobiles and ATVs.

[BillM]

 

I worry because a project like this hasn't been done in Canada before. So we don't know what the effect is. Benoir is an important spawning place for the lake chain, there could be no ill effect, or it could be terrible, the point is we don't know. If you look up survivability testing, it's driving tanks and APCs across large trails, as well as detonating explosives beneath them. Before I could say the lakes would NOT suffer at all, there would have to be a lot of proof over large periods of time showing that.

 

 

 

There's a base that one of Ontario best natural steelhead river runs directly through, Lots of tanks, explosions and other cool stuff. The fish don't seem to care at all

[ch312]

Of course the local people are against it....it would mean JOBS! And they'd have to give up their E.I.!

 

 

Yeah, because soooooo many people are going to score jobs there.

 

"While Fearrey admits that the economic benefit (estimated at five to 15 jobs by Armatec) “isn’t huge” he says"

 

 

 

 

I'm thinking one major area of concern for locals is the fact that 2,300 acres of land is going to be lost to this testing site which will negatively effect fishing, hunting, sledding, and atving, all thing's that local campground and cottage owners rely on for their income.

 

This is practically going to be next door to a campground with cottages that is owned by a long time family friend and it's going to hurt his business severely. Less income and lower property value is NOT a good thing for those people.

 

 

Petition signed.

Edited April 10, 2014 by ch312

[mattaw]

 

There's a base that one of Ontario best natural steelhead river runs directly through, Lots of tanks, explosions and other cool stuff. The fish don't seem to care at all

 

Color me suprised about that. Which base? I would still want to see a study on the impact on the ecosystem surrounding the area. Either way it's sort of a moot point in this specific case since it appears they have moved on to pick another site.

Edited April 10, 2014 by mattaw

[BillM]

 

Color me suprised about that. Which base?

 

Borden.

[ch312]

i'm a business man and appreciate job creation.

 

just another example of nimby'ism.

 

Armatec will just find another plot of land...and this time they'll make sure they are in a less affluent area ......

 

People, PLEASE look at facts before spouting the "oh, but it creates jobs" line. Sure, during construction people will be employed. But, after that there will only be 5-15 positions to be filled. This is short term job creation, not long term.

[ch312]

 

Borden.

 

Borden, which was built in 1916, cannot be compared to building a new test site in 2014. Population density and tourism is far different now than it was back then.

[BillM]

 

Borden, which was built in 1916, cannot be compared to building a new test site in 2014. Population density and tourism is far different now than it was back then.

 

Let me know how Borden has affected the water quality in the Notty/Pine/Mad... He thinks the use of tanks running around is somehow going to 'ruin' the lakes... lol laughable at best.

[ch312]

 

Let me know how Borden has affected the water quality in the Notty/Pine/Mad... He thinks the use of tanks running around is somehow going to 'ruin' the lakes... lol laughable at best.

 

I agree that water quality likely won't be effected.

 

I posted that because on a few forums I have seen people comparing this proposed site to Borden saying "well, nobody seems to care about Borden being where it is and it hasn't negatively effected the area." Borden was built before the area became populated and tourism wasn't the sole provider of income back then. Times are way different these days in Southern Ontario.

 

Comparing a site that was built almost 100 years ago to a new site is definitely an apples vs oranges comparison.

[BillM]

It doesn't matter when it was built, there are still tanks and other military equipment running around Borden on a daily basis... If anything wouldn't they be more in tune to the environment in this day and age compared to 100 years ago?

[jedimaster]

 

Let me know how Borden has affected the water quality in the Notty/Pine/Mad... He thinks the use of tanks running around is somehow going to 'ruin' the lakes... lol laughable at best.

 

I don't think its laughable at all... What was the fishing like 100 years ago compared to now on the notty? Really? You can say for sure its better or no impact? I mean 100 percent you can say for certain there is no impact at all?

Your statement lacks merit and is very close minded.

There is really no economic benefit to the area. The owners have pulled the deal becasue they decided its best to sell the land to someone that will preserve it's natural condition and not destroy it. As a fisherman, hunter and outdoorsman I applaud them for this decision.

[BillM]

 

I don't think its laughable at all... What was the fishing like 100 years ago compared to now on the notty? Really? You can say for sure its better or no impact? I mean 100 percent you can say for certain there is no impact at all?

Your statement lacks merit and is very close minded.

There is really no economic benefit to the area. The owners have pulled the deal becasue they decided its best to sell the land to someone that will preserve it's natural condition and not destroy it. As a fisherman, hunter and outdoorsman I applaud them for this decision

 

Every river, lake and stream had better fishing 100 years ago... What's your point? When was the last time you even stepped foot into the Notty? Best thing to ever happen to that river was the implementation of the 'No Kill' zone.. Returns in that river have gotten better and better. You wanna talk about a statement that lacks merit? You're telling me how MY home river has been impacted? Stick to the east ditches.

Edited April 10, 2014 by BillM

[Sinker]

Well MY HOME COTTAGE will be directly affected by this place, so I'm all against it.

 

Would you like this place put on your beloved notty, Bill?

 

Geeze...open your mind a little dude.

 

S.

[BillM]

Well MY HOME COTTAGE will be directly affected by this place, so I'm all against it.

 

Would you like this place put on your beloved notty, Bill?

 

Geeze...open your mind a little dude.

 

S.

 

I've already got Borden, you think I care? Let's be realistic here the only reason anyone cares is because they don't want it in their back yard. Not because it's going to have an impact on their beloved 'outdoors' or that the lake quality is going to somehow suffer or the tourism...... Let's call a spade a spade. People just need to stop giving these Bull excuses and say how it really is. They don't want it simple as that.

Edited April 10, 2014 by BillM

[jedimaster]

I used to live close enough to the notty to ride my bike to so I know it fairly well. You have made my point exactly. You are the one that compared a river to a lake, and an army base built many many years ago to a testing ground built now. Apples and oranges is my point exactly. You are saying that the fishing wasn't affected but I can pretty near guarantee you it has been affected since before the base was there. The two situations are not comperable that is the point of my statement. Your comparision of Notty and Borden lacks merit.

[BillM]

I used to live close enough to the notty to ride my bike to so I know it fairly well. You have made my point exactly. You are the one that compared a river to a lake, and an army base built many many years ago to a testing ground built now. Apples and oranges is my point exactly. You are saying that the fishing wasn't affected but I can pretty near guarantee you it has been affected since before the base was there. The two situations are not comperable that is the point of my statement. Your comparision of Notty and Borden lacks merit.

 

You've gotta be kidding me, lol! You think a tank base is going to destroy a lake but a river running THROUGH an active base will somehow remain untouched? Seriously man? Apples and oranges? Really? If Borden was that big of an impact to the Notty.... or the Pine.....or the Mad don't you think we would have seen it by now?

 

You keep saying 'lack of merit' If you want examples just look at your silly replies.