hockeyplayerz_14 Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 this makes absolutely no sense. Im 18 years old and i have no problem standing up and fighting for this. the funny thing is they practice ice rescue training. i know this because my buddy is doing it.
Terry Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 Lets try it thiis way. If you make a judgment call that puts not only you but ohters at risk is that not neglagence? And worthy of a pennalty? Eg. Impaired driving.? Or what about the kid that killed 2 people on HWY 50 last year .(stunt driving)?Charged with manslaughter. These are extreem examples but still show pour judgment worthy of pennalties. Now extreem sports. A skier decides to go into an avalanch zone dispite all warnings. should that person be charged with excersizing pour judgement if that person need to be rescude? YES. Gilford a couple weeks ago. 3 air boats and it looked like about 30 cival servants responded to some people out on the ice. The ice had just formed and only 3-4 inches before the warm spell started. On the second day of the warm spell they went down. Not only that they had a child with them. Now do theese 2 examples help put in perspective the importance of common sence? Chief of police for OPP said that there is nothing they can be charged with except not using common sence(dont quoat me on that) and there is no charge for that. What??? So if the townships want to make bye-laws in order to recoupe some of the cost then that is a start. Ive said it before and I will say it again. You should have a seperate licience for ice fishing! Don. thanks for suggesting for fees for icefishermen , I hope they charge access fees at your favorite lake and most of your examples people were breaking the law..the icefishermen did not...they were just stupid if you are stupid and drive in bad conditions do they charge for the rescue...no if you kid climbs up a tree and can't get down , do they charge or fine...no if you fall asleep with a smoke and burn your house down do they charge or fine ..no if every single person gets charge for any rescue anywhere, then fine otherwise, quit making fishermen a cashcow
dhickey Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 thanks for suggesting for fees for icefishermen , I hope they charge access fees at your favorite lake and most of your examples people were breaking the law..the icefishermen did not...they were just stupid if you are stupid and drive in bad conditions do they charge for the rescue...no if you kid climbs up a tree and can't get down , do they charge or fine...no if you fall asleep with a smoke and burn your house down do they charge or fine ..no if every single person gets charge for any rescue anywhere, then fine otherwise, quit making fishermen a cashcow Terry its about gross neglegence caused by lack of common sence. That is why laws are put in place.
Rich Nelson Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 what the hell are you talking about? I have been ice fishing 40 years and never heard of one fireman or cop death responding to a ice rescue. Hoppy I said deaths, not firefighter or cop deaths.
kemper Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 How is it negligence to go on the ice and require rescue? Rescuers are trained and paid to RESCUE. Is it negligence if you burn your house down (unintentionally) and require rescue from the fire? According to Jay M. Feinman of the Rutgers University School of Law, "The core idea of negligence is that people should exercise reasonable care when they act by taking account of the potential harm that they might foreseeably cause harm to other people." Reasonable care to me would seem NOT to include being on crappy ice after two days of +13 temperatures...but maybe I'm being unreasonable.
Terry Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 how many people drive their cars in nasty fog...when you can't see the car in front of you..you should stay home or get off the road till it clears up one could argue it is gross negligence caused by lack of common sense. if you cause an accident or get into an accident under those conditions so by you logic everyone on the road should be charged and anyone who needs rescuing should pay the price...........I see no less cars vgoing to work on foggy days....so it seems some people only see icefishermen as doing stupid things.....one price for all or no price for anyone
Rich Nelson Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 This is a very slippery slope indeed... Take this scenario. I'm walking along the edge of a lake. I see someone fall through the ice. I call 9-1-1. Thankfully the person survives and gets a bill. That person says "I didn't call, I'm not paying". Do they charge me for making the call? Are you serious? Lol. The charges are not for physically dialing 911, but for unecessarily endangering the lives of others. Im actually a little embarrassed I had to post that. And the answer to the original question is the exact same from every person on this board. Of course you would call 911 if you felt your life was in danger... Regardless of fines that may follow.
ketchenany Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 OSHAWA, Ont. - A southern Ontario man says he will fight the $5,400 bill he got from a fire department for rescuing him after he went through the ice while fishing. Neil Robbescheuten, 62, was ice fishing on Lake Scugog earlier this month when a dense fog rolled in and he became disoriented trying to find his way back to the shore. The Oshawa man says he went through the ice in a marshy area near some bullrushes so he was able to pull himself out onto a tree stump while he called 911 and three firetrucks responded to rescue him. He later received the invoice of $5,392.78 for the rescue and says he plans to fight it because he worries it will make people think twice about calling emergency services when they're in trouble. Scugog Fire Chief Richard Miller says while this is the first such invoice there, the township north of Oshawa has had the ability to issue them for years. Miller says the temperature was warm and rainy that weekend and the local conservation authorities had issued warnings urging people to stay away from bodies of water.
kemper Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 how many people drive their cars in nasty fog...when you can't see the car in front of you..you should stay home or get off the road till it clears up one could argue it is gross negligence caused by lack of common sense. if you cause an accident or get into an accident under those conditions so by you logic everyone on the road should be charged and anyone who needs rescuing should pay the price...........I see no less cars vgoing to work on foggy days....so it seems some people only see icefishermen as doing stupid things.....one price for all or no price for anyone I'm just looking at the other side of the argument, that's all. I choose to stay off thin ice, under warm conditions because I realize that there is a much higher risk of going through. Look at it this way - you're having your morning coffee at the cottage looking out over the lake in January when its +12C and some moron drives his truck out without checking and goes through the 4 inches of crap ice. Now it's up to you to risk your own life to pull pinhead out of the drink. Is the guy negligent or unlucky? Personally I would be pissed that I had to endanger my life because of someone else's stupidity.
dhickey Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) How is it negligence to go on the ice and require rescue? Rescuers are trained and paid to RESCUE. Is it negligence if you burn your house down (unintentionally) and require rescue from the fire? If you intentionaly put yourself or others then yes it is negligence coupled with a gross lack of common scence. Accidents do happen. But entering into the rhelm of extreem sports you take the responsibilty upon yuorself to use propper judgment therfore accept resonsabilty for you own errors. Edited January 30, 2013 by saltydawg
ccmtcanada Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 Are you serious? Lol. The charges are not for physically dialing 911, but for unecessarily endangering the lives of others. No, I'm not serious...I wrote that to show how idiotic it would be to try and go after this as there will be many arguements on both sides...that is "where will it end?". No need to be embarrassed as I was trying to prove a point.
Rich Nelson Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 How is it negligence to go on the ice and require rescue? Rescuers are trained and paid to RESCUE. Is it negligence if you burn your house down (unintentionally) and require rescue from the fire? How is it negligent to go on UNSAFE ice is the proper question.And because they are paid to train and rescue, there shouldnt be a fine for putting them in danger? Your third comment is apples and oranges. If you had said that some guys decided to climb down the niagara gorge, away from public paths, and got stuck and needed rescue... Then yes, they would deserve a fine as well. They didnt do anything illegal, but stupidity put others at risk. Pretty clear to me
Rich Nelson Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 No, I'm not serious...I wrote that to show how idiotic it would be to try and go after this as there will be many arguements on both sides...that is "where will it end?". No need to be embarrassed as I was trying to prove a point. Gotcha.... There seem to be others that cant wrap their head around it
Terry Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 I never said they were not stupid, and I hope I make better choices but every single rescue of any type puts the firemen at risk , fires are about the most dangerous rescues going and water/ ice rescues in ontario are among the safest rescues going..and if you look at how few rescuers have died in water/ ice rescues in ontario, they stats will prove me right
kemper Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 I would call 911. Really? What are the odds the rescuers show up in time unless you're on a Lake close to a major population? I think most of us would probably do our best to get someone out of the drink, even if we felt like drowning the guy anyway... Not that any of us sitting around our keyboards are solving the problem, I just think some opinions might change if it was your own life that was at risk because of someone else's stupidity (and yes, negligence as well).
kemper Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 I think you missed the excitement about this in another thread
kemper Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 Really. If the ice is as bad as you say it is, there's no point in having the divers retrieve 2 bodies. Ice rescue innovation - tie a rope to a potato, load potato into potato launcher, launch potato towards moron that went through thin ice, retrieve moron using rope. Problem solved?
DRIFTER_016 Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) I would call 911. And pour myself another coffee. As the saying goes: You can't fix stupid!! Edited January 30, 2013 by DRIFTER_016
kemper Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 So what I'm getting is there is no way you would risk your own life to rescue a Darwin candidate from cold water, but they shouldn't get the bill for their negligence when the professionals arrive to risk their lives? Hopefully softwater season comes soon
chessy Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 not a big ice fisherman but after yesterday when guys spaded a hole not less than 1 feet from the edge of open water and less than 5 min later had to run and get his stuff and then run back and jump over open water because the piece of ice let go. this just cements the idea if you and dumb enough to play a dangerous game then you have to pay .
kemper Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 not a big ice fisherman but after yesterday when guys spaded a hole not less than 1 feet from the edge of open water and less than 5 min later had to run and get his stuff and then run back and jump over open water because the piece of ice let go. this just cements the idea if you and dumb enough to play a dangerous game then you have to pay . Sometimes I wonder if we should just let people like that float away for a while...
dhickey Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 And pour myself another coffee. As the saying goes: You can't fix stupid!! Doesnt matter the plain fact is there is no excuse for STUPIDITY!
Terry Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 not a big walker but after yesterday when guys were walking down icy sidewalks and less than 5 min later he fell 3 times and then run back and jump icy walkways because the piece of ice let go. this just cements the idea if you are dumb enough to play a dangerous game then you have to pay .
kemper Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 not a big walker but after yesterday when guys were walking down icy sidewalks and less than 5 min later he fell 3 times and then run back and jump icy walkways because the piece of ice let go. this just cements the idea if you are dumb enough to play a dangerous game then you have to pay . I'm not following the parallel between icy walkways where you might break an ankle, to open water in the winter where you might die.
davey buoy Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 What about a "rescue one time card",after that you pay the piper?.
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