mike rousseau Posted July 5, 2012 Report Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) My buddy just got charged by the Mnr for poaching because he crossed into Quebec with walleye in his live well outside the slot... But these fish were caught in ontario... And he would have been returning to Ontario with these fish... And Im in an area where USA Ontario and Quebec intersect... So if anglers follow all slots and regs just incase they wanna fish spots in different zones... They have a 5 inch slot they can keep fish in without being charged....15.5-20.5 inches... On a normal day most don't catch many that small... So basically in order to keep ANY walleye anglers will have to fish each zone at a time starting with USA(over 18") then Quebec (14.5-20.5) then Ontario ( no size limit)... And this is the same water body and the three zones intersect each other... And worst of all... The Quebec/Ontario border isn't shown on navionics... So most people don't really know where the line is... I think a far better set up on border waters would be to follow the rules according to your license... And where you launch from... That way there is less confusion amongst anglers... Luckily the way I do my daily run it's actually convenient for me to fish Quebec then Ontario... Or NY state then Ontario... Up/down river on one side then back to Ontario to head back the other way... And "I" am aware of these slots... However most are not aware of these little Bull rules and loads of anglers in my area follow Ontario regs on the Quebec side.... So pretty well most walleye anglers in my area are poachers according to these regs... All because there's 3 sets of rules for the same area... And im not talking a big area... I can do a couple minute drift and go through USA-Quebec-Ontario.... So depending on where you are in the drift you can keep different sizes of fish... But if you do... Chances are you cannot do the drift again because you'll be in possession of a fish outside the slot in one of the 3 zones... I find it hard to believe that those who make/enforce the rules can't see this and can't make it simpler like I said... Follow your regs based on licence and launch zone... If your fishing an Ontario Quebec border water you follow the regs according the the province you launch from and you need to posses a licence for the Provence you launch from... By the way... It was $325 For being 100 feet over a line in the water that isn't event show on navionics.... They sure aren't making things easy for new/casual anglers... Sorry my rant... Mike Edited July 6, 2012 by Musky Mike
Pikeslayer Posted July 5, 2012 Report Posted July 5, 2012 My psycho senses are screaming Mike. I see a court date in your buddies future.
Billy Bob Posted July 5, 2012 Report Posted July 5, 2012 I fish BOTH NYS and Ontario waters at the same time on Lake Erie.......until this year NYS had a five fish limit while Ontario has a 6 fish limit....AND Ontario does NOT have a size limit for walleyes.....but here's the thing.......if I fish ONLY Ontario waters I can get away with walleyes under 15" as long as I DON'T stop and fish in NYS waters while I have those under size fish (according to NYS) in my live well...... NYS FINALLY went to a 6 fish limit on Lake Erie.........WHY.....because Ontario, PA, OH and MI all had a 6 fish limit and our fishing clubs got together with the NYS Federation and put pressure on NYS DEC to raise the limit to all other boarding states/Canada....and remember......Ontario is the only government agency that allows commercial fishing on Lake Erie..
mercman Posted July 6, 2012 Report Posted July 6, 2012 My psycho senses are screaming Mike. I see a court date in your buddies future. eggzackly what i told him
mike rousseau Posted July 6, 2012 Author Report Posted July 6, 2012 My psycho senses are screaming Mike. I see a court date in your buddies future. Problem is... This IS the law... There's no grey area...other then not knowing where the border lies... So by going to court he MAY shed light on this stupid situation... And he has the money to take it pretty far...
danc Posted July 6, 2012 Report Posted July 6, 2012 Tell him to save his money and pay the fine. He broke the law. End of story. My hand held Garmin shows provincial and USA borders within 20 feet just fine.
mike rousseau Posted July 6, 2012 Author Report Posted July 6, 2012 Tell him to save his money and pay the fine. He broke the law. End of story. My hand held Garmin shows provincial and USA borders within 20 feet just fine. And for those that don't have a gps? Or have a gps that doesn't show provincial borders on the water.... I know he broke the law... He now knows he broke the law... The problem is the law... Like billy bob said... Erie borders changed their limits to be the same.... So why not get rid of the slots all around on the st.lawrence river... Or have a slot but make it the same...
mercman Posted July 6, 2012 Report Posted July 6, 2012 if enough groups and anglers complain Mike, things may happen.Unfortunately i cant see that happening in my lifetime.Maybe give navionics a call, an ask em why we pay hundreds of bucks for thier software, and they cant put borders on it? I just spent 260 bucks for navigable waters, i never even thought .about provincial and US borders.I assumed it would be on it
Roy Posted July 6, 2012 Report Posted July 6, 2012 Didn't your bud know the slot and possession limits for those jurisdictions?
mercman Posted July 6, 2012 Report Posted July 6, 2012 Didn't your bud know the slot and possession limits for those jurisdictions? LOL !! He's gone to work and left us hanging
danc Posted July 6, 2012 Report Posted July 6, 2012 And for those that don't have a gps? Or have a gps that doesn't show provincial borders on the water.... I know he broke the law... He now knows he broke the law... The problem is the law... Like billy bob said... Erie borders changed their limits to be the same.... So why not get rid of the slots all around on the st.lawrence river... Or have a slot but make it the same... "But your Honour. My navonics chip doesn't show provincial or state boundaries, therefore I'm innocent". You really think that this is gonna cut it? As for the three jurisdictions getting together on slot sizes, they all have their own reason for setting it where it is. Who's is most right is anyone's guess.
Pikeslayer Posted July 6, 2012 Report Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) Just for kicks and giggles Mike, I'll throw one of the associates on it. Actually, Dan C. Gave me an idea with the mention of "within 20 feet". Check with your friend and see if the GPS coordinates are inclusive and documented. Email me the docs if you prefer. Edited July 6, 2012 by pikeslayer
danc Posted July 6, 2012 Report Posted July 6, 2012 Just for kicks and giggles Mike, I'll throw one of the associates on it. Actually, Dan C. Gave me an idea with the mention of "within 20 feet". Check with your friend and see if the GPS coordinates are inclusive and documented. Email me the docs if you prefer. Actually I was being generous with the 20 feet. My hand held is often within 8 or 9 feet according to it, and waypoints that I've previously marked. But if I was using it for legal reasons, I'd give it at least a couple hundred feet myself.
mike rousseau Posted July 6, 2012 Author Report Posted July 6, 2012 "But your Honour. My navonics chip doesn't show provincial or state boundaries, therefore I'm innocent". You really think that this is gonna cut it? As for the three jurisdictions getting together on slot sizes, they all have their own reason for setting it where it is. Who's is most right is anyone's guess. Wow... I guess I'm gunna have to simplify a bit... How is buddy in a conoe without electronics supposed to know he's 20 feet over an invisible line???? And that invisible line has different rules on the other side... So he crosses the line by 20 feet not knowing and gets nailed for poaching walleye... And you dont think it would get overturned on court...? At least 9/10 boaters in my area probably couldn't tell you where the border is exactly... It's rediculus for authorities to expect this...
mike rousseau Posted July 6, 2012 Author Report Posted July 6, 2012 BTW He's not fighting it... The ticket is cheaper then a lawyer.... Off to the Ottawa for some musky... Have a good day fellas
gaspumper Posted July 6, 2012 Report Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) Problem is... This IS the law... There's no grey area...other then not knowing where the border lies... So by going to court he MAY shed light on this stupid situation... And he has the money to take it pretty far... What happened to ... And he has the money to take it pretty far... Edited July 6, 2012 by gaspumper
Fisherman Posted July 6, 2012 Report Posted July 6, 2012 Maybe we should change the scenario to something like this and see how it plays out: Lets go tresspass 20 feet into China with just thinking about poaching a fish or two. You get caught, have a trial on the same day and get shot. So maybe it's called responsibility, something that a lot of people shirk and blame everything and everybody else but themselves.
DanD Posted July 6, 2012 Report Posted July 6, 2012 Kind of reminds me of the West Arm, when the slot was first introduced. Then West of Hwy64 was a different zone, which didn’t have a slot size. So you’d catch a legal fish in let’s say Warren Bay; but you’re staying east of 64, cross under the bridge to go home and now you have an illegal fish in your possession. We were never stopped but I always wondered how that conversation would have gone? Honest officer we were over there; but you and the fish are now over here. I guess it would have been a judgment call on whether the CO believed you or not; I guess this CO didn’t believe your buddy? Some official finally clued in and made the whole area the same zone. Dan.
mike rousseau Posted July 6, 2012 Author Report Posted July 6, 2012 Kind of reminds me of the West Arm, when the slot was first introduced. Then West of Hwy64 was a different zone, which didn’t have a slot size. So you’d catch a legal fish in let’s say Warren Bay; but you’re staying east of 64, cross under the bridge to go home and now you have an illegal fish in your possession. We were never stopped but I always wondered how that conversation would have gone? Honest officer we were over there; but you and the fish are now over here. I guess it would have been a judgment call on whether the CO believed you or not; I guess this CO didn’t believe your buddy? Some official finally clued in and made the whole area the same zone. Dan. As long as you don't stop between the one zone and you dock/ramp your ok... Like here... Perch is open year round on the NY side... So once perch closes here lots of guys cross to NY and target perch there... But you CAN NOT stop between the border and launch/dock... That's what I was told by the MNR anyways...
kickingfrog Posted July 6, 2012 Report Posted July 6, 2012 Maybe we should change the scenario to something like this and see how it plays out: Lets go tresspass 20 feet into China with just thinking about poaching a fish or two. You get caught, have a trial on the same day and get shot. So maybe it's called responsibility, something that a lot of people shirk and blame everything and everybody else but themselves. I have a feeling that border is more clearly marked, and harder to drift over.
mike rousseau Posted July 6, 2012 Author Report Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) I have a feeling that border is more clearly marked, and harder to drift over. Edited July 6, 2012 by Musky Mike
mercman Posted July 6, 2012 Report Posted July 6, 2012 I have a feeling your dead wrong and couldn't be further from the truth... But thanks for your input... There are no markers of any sort showing borders between USA Ontario and Quebec... I think he was refering to the great wall of china
woodenboater Posted July 6, 2012 Report Posted July 6, 2012 You'd think that a modern boating gps unit with a chip would have a setting that would alert you to border proximity/impending prop busters etc..
mike rousseau Posted July 6, 2012 Author Report Posted July 6, 2012 I think he was refering to the great wall of china Ah...my bad kicking frog....
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