Is your workplace this crazy?/

[SlowPoke]

I have a different take on this...

I suspect the three guys involved were problematic and less than ideal employees. The company seized the opportunity to rid themselves of these guys when they felt they had justifiable reasons to do so. I wouldn't be surprised if this same company has gone out of their way or are sympathetic to employees that put in a good day's work and are assets to the company despite injuries, addictions or other personal issues.

Workers rights and safety regulations are often taken advantage of by the slackers and they can dig their own graves. Companies are often handcuffed by labour standards or bargaining agreements to effectively do anything about it; it seems they found enough cause in these three cases.

For 18 years I worked for a company that would take a bullet for some employees and would leave others to twist in the wind. I always felt they had my back unless I gave them a damn good reason not to.

[rmarentette]

I guess slackers come in all shapes and sizes: There's a lot of blood on the hands of some of these "benevolent" employers. Appearances are never what they seem.

 

In the spring of 1992, the Westray mine in Nova Scotia received the prestigious J.T. Ryan Award for Safety from the Canadian Institute of Mining, Metallurgy and Petroleum as 'the safest coal mine in Canada in 1991.' Just 11 days later, on the morning of May 9, 1992 -- only nine months after opening -- the Westray mine exploded. When the dust cleared, 26 miners lay dead.

 

 

 

 

http://www.mromagazine.com/news/lessons-from-the-westray-mine/1000216191/

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SlowPoke]

I guess slackers come in all shapes and sizes: There's a lot of blood on the hands of some of these "benevolent" employers. Appearances are never what they seem.

 

You're absolutely right. I routinely drive past the fresh flowers laid at the driveway of a former employer where a co-worker lost his life. I firmly believe he'd be with us today had the company not been shopping roof repair quotes for months on end.

 

We've all worked with people that abuse the protections in place to suit their agenda and for employers that are willing to spend a dollar to save a dime. Its not a perfect world and my comments were just an insight to the three accounts laid out by the original poster.

[Fish Farmer]

The people you work for are a bunch of arrogant asses, I know I worked for them and they'll fire you for looking at them the wrong way.

I was a lucky one that retired and can still bait my hook. Stelco was good to me, gave me a job and made me what I am today. In the later years things went down hill because of management, and things got bad. It's bad when the workers thought more about the place than management. I for one will admit there was a few bad apples that made us guys look bad, the legit ones that were hurting and still went crawling in to work day or night shift weather they could or not because we needed the money. I worked with, or should I say did their share of the work because they played the game, I called them fresh air thieves. Their the ones you talk about. When I retired I had the same feeling as Chris. Chris was one of the hardiest workers in his department, his job left him in the shape he is in today. He may not say anything but the man hurts. I'm good, but I see Chris's pain, every time I see him. I'm glad I can still jump in the boat any day I want. Hope you guys under stand My point and Pic's Were not looking for sympathy,just making a point.

Now I got to get ready for the Orillia Perch festival.

[pics]

There was a survey done when we came back from the work stoppage. None of us really knew and were not told how serious it was to miss any detail. I have an occasional sciatic nerve problem that I failed to mention as well. I have had more serious medical issues in the last year that made it on the survey. The company Dr. interviews each guy based on the survey and he hones in on the major issues. Long story short...he phoned my specialist who told him I was OK. Now the issues have re-occured and I'm not sure what to do..Report it and I might be pushed out the door..not report it and I might get fired!!??... Some of the best workers in the place are the ones who have had a second chance. Seeing that it can take years to train someone it make sense to give them another try. The guy who had something in his system was not impaired..it was in his system...The one with a sore wrist has to manouver heavy items by pushing and pulling with a heavy bar...I talked to him about it and he said yes it hurt to drive the bike but he addmitted his mistake in lying to them...Point is we have rules...crazy ones...no radio when driving in, windows have to be closed if it's windy, radar traps, no toasters...etc, etc

[rmarentette]

Pics, I'm not sure if you're in Hamilton, but if you are, you can contact the Hamilton Injured Workers group for help. There are other groups around the province that also give support. Here are some links. Hope this helps.

 

http://www.inform.hamilton.ca/record/HAM3928

 

http://www.iavgo.org/index.htm

 

http://www.injuredworkersonline.org/Organizations/iwc.html

[SlowPoke]

Point is we have rules...crazy ones...no radio when driving in, windows have to be closed if it's windy, radar traps, no toasters...etc, etc

In this day and age these types of rules are put in place through safety consultants working from a compendium of 'what ifs' and obscure precedents. An employee may have been traveling through the yard, struck an object or another employee and said a speck of dust obscured his vision on a windy day... or maybe he wasn't paying attention and used that as an excuse. The truth doesn't matter and we get to enjoy a new policy.

In my line of work there are plenty of policies I have to roll my eyes about, some that I'm grateful for and a lot that I've ignored! I think a good team player is willing to bend a little to get the job done and a good company is willing to overlook the small stuff. To put some perspective on this, I've worked with numerous guys over the years that wouldn't pull a trailer if it had a marker light out. A service truck would have to be called in, the driver would collect his waiting time and the load would be delayed. To the letter of the law, he may be 'in the right' to refuse the assignment but all these incidents add up they find themselves out of work... "getting screwed by the company".

It's a chicken/egg argument and all we can do is work within the terms of employment we accepted on being hired.

[pics]

I love that we have proceedures for every thing and I mean everything!! In the US where these rules are created you can sue your employer for silly things so I'm not surprised...we even have one for how to get out of your car, climb stairs, make coffee etc.. I feel safe most of the time but stuff happens sometimes.. I wear my long johns, orange denim, long sleeves, denim jacket, firemans snood, safety glasses, goggles and face shield, hardhat and of course earplugs....lol.. Heat stress is big here...lol

[danc]

Witnessed a guy dumping a 4 inch high x 22 feet long x 3 feet wide load of roof decking on himself 2 weeks ago. Not fun. Glad he wasn't part of my crew because the company and the foreman face $250,000 and $25,000 fines respectively.

[pics]

Ouch..I watched them carry a man out while he took his last few breaths....as soon as the ambulance closed its doors the foreman yelled at us to get back to work...

[SlowPoke]

Witnessed a guy dumping a 4 inch high x 22 feet long x 3 feet wide load of roof decking on himself 2 weeks ago. Not fun. Glad he wasn't part of my crew because the company and the foreman face $250,000 and $25,000 fines respectively.

 

Wow, that's a pretty quick investigation and judgement.

[rmarentette]

Wow, that's a pretty quick investigation and judgement.

 

In Windsor, a 36 year old father of a 4 year old and a two year old was killed in 2009, when a steel racking system collapsed and crushed him. The employer was charged with 12 violations of the Occupational Health and Safety Act and was eventually fined $12,000. The employer could have been fined up to $500,000 for each violation if found guilty and each individual charged could be fined $25,000. The mother now has to raise those two boys on her own. I wonder if the Ministry of Labour Inspectors had been there the day before iof that young man would still be with us today. The trouble is we need more inspectors because too many employers aren't abiding by the minimum standards as required by the law. Animal abuse makes the news- workplace injuries and fatalities not so much. There's more public outcry for abusing animals than workers!

[woodenboater]

That's heartbreaking.

 

I'm not one to go the litigation route but that company should have been be sued to high hell and beyond. No way his wife should have to raise their two kids alone without some financial help. If the company was negligent and the fine would indicate so, yeah, they should be legally forced to bend over.

[rmarentette]

That's heartbreaking.

 

I'm not one to go the litigation route but that company should have been be sued to high hell and beyond. No way his wife should have to raise their two kids alone without some financial help. If the company was negligent and the fine would indicate so, yeah, they should be legally forced to bend over.

 

The problem is, workers gave up the right to sue when we got the Compensation Act in 1914. She gets a survivors pension but that's small comfort when your spouse and daddy is killed on the job. Nobody should have to be maimed or die just to have a job. Compensation is difficult to get even when the evidence is clear and often injured workers just give up or go back to work before they're ready. Just because a claim is denied doesn't it make it false. Employers do everything they can to drag it out hoping that workers will give up. When workers can't get the compensation that they are entitled too they end up on welfare and Canada pension Disability and use OHIP and that costs every taxpayer. The employers are supposed to pay not the tax payers.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Rolly

[Millhouse2020]

I have to cide with the company on this one as well. We have had similar ongoing issues in my workplace as well. In the past, the company has tried too hard to appease employees and keep people happy so now when we try and enforce rules, its very very tough. The rules are there for their own health and safety. Accidents have all sorts of costs, first human costs, then of course monetary and other costs. Our company has some large clients who have some of the most stringent safety policies out there. They track our safety performance and if we dont make the cut, we loose out on contracts. For some reason, employees fail to wait to understand this, some think they can do whatever they want. Just recently, we have had to revisit a policy on face sheilds because a couple guys dont want to wear them. The policy has been in force for over 2 years and came about due to a rash of eye injuries and rising WSIB claims and rates.

 

We have had people under the influence here too, it boggles my mind but nothing seems to surprise me anymore. Its frustrating from the employers/managments point of view when you are trying to get work done in the face of rising costs and more stringent compliance issues. I don't recall dealing with these kinds of things as often as few as 10 years ago but maybe Im lookig back with rose coloured glasses...

[janesy]

WSIB has gone way way overboard, but if the employee is not doing their part to accexpt the responcibilities apon them...then there is no other option out there. there are plenty of operator looking for work that don't smoke dope.

 

Undisclosed injury, That would become disclosed real quick once it happens at work, then you are paying for them for the rest of their days. I deal with WSIB, and it is clear, as an employer the odds are stacked against me.

[Rod Caster]

WSIB has gone way way overboard, but if the employee is not doing their part to accexpt the responcibilities apon them...then there is no other option out there. there are plenty of operator looking for work that don't smoke dope.

 

Undisclosed injury, That would become disclosed real quick once it happens at work, then you are paying for them for the rest of their days. I deal with WSIB, and it is clear, as an employer the odds are stacked against me.

 

 

So smoking dope on your personal time makes you less worthy of an operator job, or any other job for that manner?? What about the presciption pill popper that is considered legal, or the crack smoker who clears his blood after 3 days, or the high-functioning alcoholic who sobers up after 24 hrs. Oxy's are one of our biggest drug problems and the stupid things are legal.

 

The only problem I have with drug testing is that it targets people who are not necessarily the problem... pot smokers only end up being the scape goats. "we got rid of our drug-adled employee who caused the accident".

 

Other than the pot issue/drug testing, I have come to agree with the others on this topic who are siding with the employer.

[janesy]

So smoking dope on your personal time makes you less worthy of an operator job, or any other job for that manner?? What about the presciption pill popper that is considered legal, or the crack smoker who clears his blood after 3 days, or the high-functioning alcoholic who sobers up after 24 hrs. Oxy's are one of our biggest drug problems and the stupid things are legal.

 

The only problem I have with drug testing is that it targets people who are not necessarily the problem... pot smokers only end up being the scape goats. "we got rid of our drug-adled employee who caused the accident".

 

Other than the pot issue/drug testing, I have come to agree with the others on this topic who are siding with the employer.

 

I personnally don't care what anyone does on their time. But, if you are on my time and you test possitive(for anything), than yes that is a liability. Anyone can argue any point they like, but what it always comes down to is the court of law and who provided the most due diligence. Due Diligence is all an employer has to work with.

 

Say that worker who drank, smoked , popped pills or did any of the above kills someone, by no fault of their own... Do you honestly believe for a second that that dead workers family's newly hired lawyer is going to care whether it was last night or four nights ago he smoked dope. Fact is, you and everyone else is getting sued, and you are now instantly on the hook for 50K in lawyer fees just to stay in business. So is he less worthy of an operator, in this day and age, he might just be.

 

But I do hear you on the oxy issue and pot being a scape goat, I have spend 3 years of my life dealing with it in my house. I know all about it.

Edited April 24, 2012 by janesy

[Rod Caster]

 

Say that worker who drank, smoked , popped pills or did any of the above kills someone, by no fault of their own... Do you honestly believe for a second that that dead workers family's newly hired lawyer is going to care whether it was last night or four nights ago he smoked dope. Fact is, you and everyone else is getting sued, and you are now instantly on the hook for 50K in lawyer fees just to stay in business. So is he less worthy of an operator, in this day and age, he might just be.

 

 

 

What I am saying is that they would not necessarily catch the crackhead, drinker or pill popper, but they would be able to hold the pot smoker liable and instantly he would be considered "endangering the other workers" while the others just

 

Sorry to hear about the Oxy thing.... Up north the pills are selling for hundred of dollars... bad stuff

[janesy]

What I am saying is that they would not necessarily catch the crackhead, drinker or pill popper, but they would be able to hold the pot smoker liable and instantly he would be considered "endangering the other workers" while the others just

 

Sorry to hear about the Oxy thing.... Up north the pills are selling for hundred of dollars... bad stuff

 

I agree, 100%. It is the easiest to nail down, therfor they do.

 

My Ex's issue was prescribed, had I known the pills were worth so much....Just kidding, I've actually taken all kinds or stuff back to a pharmacy to be properly dispossed of. The way they hand these pills out is rediculous, especially if an insurance company is paying. Look out, Methedone and Oxy's for everyone!

[206]

This i an intresting topic...I won't even add my 2cent cause i work in a union shop

[rmarentette]

WSIB has gone way way overboard, but if the employee is not doing their part to accexpt the responcibilities apon them...then there is no other option out there. there are plenty of operator looking for work that don't smoke dope.

 

Undisclosed injury, That would become disclosed real quick once it happens at work, then you are paying for them for the rest of their days. I deal with WSIB, and it is clear, as an employer the odds are stacked against me.

For those who think the WSIB is going overboard when dealing with employers remember there are two sides to the coin. Here is an article that tells another story!

Good read from the other perspective.

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/investigations/workplacesafety/wsib/article/451322--hiding-injuries-rewards-companies

[pics]

We have a sad history of poor labour relations and it's getting much worse...Layoff notices went out to 58 workers starting Sunday yet they have hired a bunch of retirees back as contractors. The ones getting laid off are quite capable of running the lines but human resources says head office is to blame!?? Safety is very big but if someone does a work refusal for unsafe work they become a target. We can be fired for violating the cardinal rules they set out but when WE have an issue there's big trouble for us. They intimidate us into not reporting injuries by having investigations that last for hours...a blister from new boots results in pictures being taken etc. They re-investigate until head office is satisfied with the answers.... The point is, these guys were targeted along with 4 others in the last few months who have been fired. They are sending a message to us to keep your mouth shut even if you think something is unsafe...we have one machine that guys are getting gassed when they run it, the fresh air intake sucks toxic gasses in..so they go home with numb lips and feeling very tired, not able to get up off the couch for a day..no one has had the nerve to refuse to use it..

[DRIFTER_016]

We have a sad history of poor labour relations and it's getting much worse...Layoff notices went out to 58 workers starting Sunday yet they have hired a bunch of retirees back as contractors. The ones getting laid off are quite capable of running the lines but human resources says head office is to blame!?? Safety is very big but if someone does a work refusal for unsafe work they become a target. We can be fired for violating the cardinal rules they set out but when WE have an issue there's big trouble for us. They intimidate us into not reporting injuries by having investigations that last for hours...a blister from new boots results in pictures being taken etc. They re-investigate until head office is satisfied with the answers.... The point is, these guys were targeted along with 4 others in the last few months who have been fired. They are sending a message to us to keep your mouth shut even if you think something is unsafe...we have one machine that guys are getting gassed when they run it, the fresh air intake sucks toxic gasses in..so they go home with numb lips and feeling very tired, not able to get up off the couch for a day..no one has had the nerve to refuse to use it..

 

Isn't it a union shop?

If it is, why isn't your union taking care of you?

[workwear]

i think the wsib organization is a complete scam!!!

 

why cant i have personal insurance that covers me 24/7..365 days a year....instead of wsib, which only covers within working times

 

im all for health and safety boards....but wsib??...just another excuse to give work to government pencil pushers!!

 

i am forced to have this goverment insurance...its a complete crock!!!