Lake Ontario Atlantic Salmon

[Billy Bob]

For those interested in Atlantic Salmon from Lake Ontario.......

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/wire-feeds/state/article612289.ece

[blaque]

I didnt catch that over the weekend.........Thanks for posting

[GBW]

it's a good read, thanks BB

[torco]

interesting article. I was not aware that a lack of thiamine was an issue with atlantic salmon.

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

nice to hear continued success in a re-establishment that many said will never work.

[Jon]

And an update from the Ontario side:

 

September OFAH Press Release

 

 

Jon

[craigdritchie]

nice to hear continued success in a re-establishment that many said will never work.

Dr. Sal, I wouldn't get too excited just yet.

 

Per the September OFAH memo that Jon referenced, this August three Atlantic salmon were observed in the Credit River. Three. From a stocking of more than 500,000 fish each year.

 

The Credit River Anglers Association reports it recovered 49 Atlantic salmon at its Streetsville fishway in 2008, 75 fish in 2009 and perhaps a total of 200 fish in 2010. Those are returns from annual plants in the neighborhood of 500,000 fish. Over the past three years Ontario has stocked 1.5 million Atlantic salmon in Lake Ontario and to date, we've seen fewer than 400 return.

 

The fact is, we have stocked more than 5.5 million Atlantic salmon into Lake Ontario since 1986. Returns each year amount to a couple of dozen fish. Do you really call that a success story? I don't.

 

It is especially disappointing when one considers what kind of fishery we would have on our hands if we stocked anywhere near the same number of steelhead, or coho. The great coho fishery off the Credit River in the 70s and 80s came from fewer fish than that, and it spawned a huge charter and tackle industry. Why don't we see similar results from all these Atlantic salmon plants?

 

People who defend the Atlantic salmon program say the lousy results are because the fish are stocked as tiny little fry. Well guess what - chinook are also stocked as tiny little fry, and look how they survive. We stock 500,000 Atlantics a year and yet most anglers have never even seen one. We stock the same number of chinook, and they're everywhere.

 

Continued success indeed.

 

I'm not trying to be nasty about it, or stir the pot here, but come on man. As taxpayers and anglers who buy licenses each year, we deserve better.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Craig_Ritchie

[myot]

Dr. Sal, I wouldn't get too excited just yet.

 

Per the September OFAH memo that Jon referenced, this August three Atlantic salmon were observed in the Credit River. Three. From a stocking of more than 500,000 fish each year.

 

The Credit River Anglers Association reports it recovered 49 Atlantic salmon at its Streetsville fishway in 2008, 75 fish in 2009 and perhaps a total of 200 fish in 2010. Those are returns from annual plants in the neighborhood of 500,000 fish. Over the past three years Ontario has stocked 1.5 million Atlantic salmon in Lake Ontario and to date, we've seen fewer than 400 return.

 

The fact is, we have stocked more than 5.5 million Atlantic salmon into Lake Ontario since 1986. Returns each year amount to a couple of dozen fish. Do you really call that a success story? I don't.

 

It is especially disappointing when one considers what kind of fishery we would have on our hands if we stocked anywhere near the same number of steelhead, or coho. The great coho fishery off the Credit River in the 70s and 80s came from fewer fish than that, and it spawned a huge charter and tackle industry. Why don't we see similar results from all these Atlantic salmon plants?

 

People who defend the Atlantic salmon program say the lousy results are because the fish are stocked as tiny little fry. Well guess what - chinook are also stocked as tiny little fry, and look how they survive. We stock 500,000 Atlantics a year (and we've done so each year for 25 years now) and yet most anglers have never even seen one. We stock the same number of chinook, and they're everywhere.

 

Continued success indeed.

 

I'm not trying to be nasty about it, or stir the pot here, but come on man. As taxpayers and anglers who buy licenses each year, we deserve better.

 

 

Comming from a guy who fishes Lake Ontario hard from April through October I have personaly caught 12 Atlantics with 9 comming over the past two years. That is beyond sad seeing we stock 500,000 a year. As a side note we boated just under 300 Kings this year 55 Coho 135 Browns and 167 Steelhead and I'm sure none of these great fish get neer the finacial support that the all mighty Atlantic gets.

 

 

Dan

[craigdritchie]

I need to correct an error I noticed in my previous post. In the sixth paragraph I wrote that we have stocked 500,000 Atlantics per year for the past 25 years. That's not right. For the first 18 years of the Atlantic salmon program, we stocked an average of 141,466 fish per year, not half a million. It's been 500,000 per year since though, and no matter how you slice it, 141,000 fish is still a LOT considering how few were ever caught.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Craig_Ritchie

[davey buoy]

I,think Daryl Cronzy said it best,"it's not working here"put the effort into productive species and have them imprint at the top of the river and not throw them off a breakwall into lake Ont or any other lake where predators are waiting to eat them:wallbash:

[kemper]

When we stock these buggers way upstream, what size are they supposed to be when they venture back to the lake? Reason being I caught a 14" Atlantic while fishing for brookies in the spring on a stream that has been stocked in the past (although I am not sure if it still is)

[davey buoy]

When we stock these buggers way upstream, what size are they supposed to be when they venture back to the lake? Reason being I caught a 14" Atlantic while fishing for brookies in the spring on a stream that has been stocked in the past (although I am not sure if it still is)

I don't know kemper,but he's been going on about this for years,maybe the ministry is listening now?Sounds like 14" in the river isn't a bad thing.I hear they put up a a heck of a fight.

[craigdritchie]

a 14-inch Atlantic has almost certainly spent a year in the lake. They're pretty small when stocked.

[misfish]

I,think Daryl Cronzy said it best,"it's not working here"

 

 

Was waiting for someone to bring Daryl into this. YADDA YADDA.

 

It is a shame that it,s not working.

[John Bacon]

For most of the Atlantic stocking program the MNR have been stocking the Lehav strain; which are domesticated inbreds. They have now started stocking some new strains; hopefully these will be more successful.

[kemper]

a 14-inch Atlantic has almost certainly spent a year in the lake. They're pretty small when stocked.

 

That would make sense, but I just got the feeling that it had been there its whole life. It was 20+km from the Lake, and would have needed to navigate a fairly large dam. It didn't make a lot of sense to me that a non-spawning fish would make that type of journey and be in the river in late May...

[kemper]

If I can dig up the picture I'll post it...but I have a sneaking suspicion that it is on my old blackberry that took a swim

[highdrifter]

When we stock these buggers way upstream, what size are they supposed to be when they venture back to the lake? Reason being I caught a 14" Atlantic while fishing for brookies in the spring on a stream that has been stocked in the past (although I am not sure if it still is)

 

They're actually stocked as yearlings now. Too early to tell if we'll get better returns but the numbers are going up..

 

The particular strain that we have now have might grow genetically stronger with every generation... And now that Streetsville is open during the earlier months, a self sustaining population is more and more likely..

 

They are sure are a sight to behold though. I've seen larger fish for the first time this year and they're every bit as feisty as they say they are.

 

Who knows.. Chronzy might have a go at them eventually and have to eat some humble pie.

[esoxansteel]

For most of the Atlantic stocking program the MNR have been stocking the Lehav strain; which are domesticated inbreds. They have now started stocking some new strains; hopefully these will be more successful.

 

 

We already have enough 2 legged imbreds, now were stocking imbred fish as well, no wonder their not working

[craigdritchie]

I don't mean any disrespect to John or Highdrifter, but I've been hearing the same excuses for 25 years. "But now we're stocking XXXX strain. It's too early to tell, but it looks encouraging."

 

We stock coho salmon and in 18 months, you know. Those little stockers return as 10 - 15 pound adults.

 

We stock rainbows or browns and in 18 months, you know. You have 6 to 10 pound fish all over the place.

 

We stock chinooks and in 18 months, you know. You have lots of 8 - 10 pound fish .... and a year later you have 20 to 25 pound adults stacked in the rivers like cordwood.

 

How many years do I have to keep hearing that with the Atlantics, it's still too early to tell? MNR has been saying this since 1986.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Craig_Ritchie

[kemper]

Kemper,

 

Anything's possible, which is why I said it's almost certainly spent time in the lake. It's also possible it could be a big, old resident fish too. You should have asked it!

 

I did! No response... There are tons of very small ones up in the headwaters, but it certainly doesn't seem to be translating into any real #'s. That said, I have seen more this year than ever before, but I'm not holding my breath.

[John Bacon]

I don't mean any disrespect to John or Highdrifter, but I've been hearing the same excuses for 25 years. "But now we're stocking XXXX strain. It's too early to tell, but it looks encouraging."

 

We stock coho salmon and in 18 months, you know. Those little stockers return as 10 - 15 pound adults.

 

We stock rainbows or browns and in 18 months, you know. You have 6 to 10 pound fish all over the place.

 

We stock chinooks and in 18 months, you know. You have lots of 8 - 10 pound fish .... and a year later you have 20 to 25 pound adults stacked in the rivers like cordwood.

 

How many years do I have to keep hearing that with the Atlantics, it's still too early to tell? MNR has been saying this since 1986.

 

Well the new strains have only been stocked in very recent years; within the last five years. If you have been hearing about new strains for 25 years then you have been misinformed. Prior to that the MNR stocked the same strain which never had proper genetic diversity to begin with, and has never been refreshed with wild stock (which needs to be done at least everty 10 years). How successful do you think the turkey re-introduction would have been if they had used inbred farm stock?

[Gregoire]

I was out on Lake Ontario with a longtime guide this summer, and he brought up the fact that an increased emphasis on stocking atlantics may have a negative affect on the derby. Having said that, does anyone echo that sentiment. His reasoning was that a lot of people, especially those that go out on a charter, are attracted by the possibility of catching a 40 pound king. If you replace those kings with Atlantics, which I do not think will grow as large as the kings, then a lot of interest in the derby will be lost.

Edited November 3, 2011 by fishgreg

[John Bacon]

Yes, that is a valid concern. That is the main reason that many have pushed the MNR to stock the Restigouche strain of Atlantics which do have the potential to grow quite large.

[danjang]

I know that this is a fishing forum and people's concerns here are that of the sport. But I'd like to bring up a point that doesn't get a lot of attention.

 

The Atlantic Salmon was a Lake Ontario native, a part of our natural heritage. I know that the original strain of fish is officially extinct, but the species still exists elsewhere. Now we as a species have done a lot to degrade the environment and this is an opportunity to correct it. Reintroduction of a lot of animals from all over the world are underway. Species that are almost identical can in fact differ enough genetically to be considered a distinct population (Cryptic species). Even though these cryptic species have gone extinct and genetic diversity has been lost, we still attempt to reintroduce them to their native habitats.

 

What my point is, if we give up trying to fix what we have broken what is the future going to entail for our children's children? Should we even try to save/restore our natural heritage or just let it be and end up having a bunch of non-indigenous species conquering our water because some fishermen are disgruntled over what kinds of fish they can catch?