Gregoire Posted August 22, 2011 Report Posted August 22, 2011 I posted this topic on another board today, but am looking for a few more opinions. Last night while salmon fishing we had a huge hit on the dipsy set back 200 feet. We set the drag really light and stop the line from coming off the spool while trolling by attaching the line to a rigger clip. This allows the fish to pull drag, and decreases the amount of pressure put on the components, as we have had several hooks straightened this year, and a few break offs. Anyway the reel was screaming just after the hit. As I grabbed the rod the rigger clip broke off and fell into the water. I tightened the drag a bit and handed it to my buddy. At this point the fight was only 20 seconds or so in, and we were nearly down to the backing, something I only noticed after I had given the rod to my buddy. I pointed out that we were about to be spooled, so he tightened the drag and was immediately broken off. On other boards advice has been to try to turn the boat...but I do not think we had the time, as the fish went on one extremely fast and long run, and did not stop until he broke us off. The reels had 500 feet of line on them, so they are off to get re-spooled with 1000 feet, so that will help. The only other thing I think I could have done was try to stop the run before I handed off the rod, but I thought I had time. In the future I will try to at least slow down the fish before handing the rod off, but seeing as it was not my turn, I did not want to be the one fighting the fish. This was my first true experience seeing the power that great lakes salmon have, and I am totally in awe. We have had the opportunity to fish with a former charter captain with over 30 years experience, and I always try to pick his mind about the size of some of the fish. I remember him telling me that unless you are extremely lucky or you start fishing with chains, landing a really big salmon (40+ pounds) is a crapshoot. I totally understand what he means now. I honestly do not know what we could have done to stop that fish from running. Anyway any advice you guys have about what we should have done differently is greatly appreciated. We ended up going 2 for 5. Landed a 16 pounder. I took me 40 minuted to land a 22 pounder that took me from 200 feet to 350 at one point. I had a huge head and tail, we thought we were on the board when we first saw it, but it did not have the length. Also had a breakoff on another decent fish that took the meat on the rigger and ran out pretty far before breaking the knot at the hook.
Harrison Posted August 22, 2011 Report Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) Your friend is right. It is a crap shoot with big fish. Try and turn the boat if you can, gear down the best you can. There is really not much else to do. Also, if the bigguns are going to run, they are going to run, there is no slowing them until they choose to.. I am talking the 35+ fish. Just know you are not alone. There are many derby winning fish hooked up this time of year that are still swimming. Edited August 22, 2011 by Harrison
anders Posted August 22, 2011 Report Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) Try setting the drag at the tension you want it before you put it in its holder and loosen the drag if need be while you are fighting the fish. I never keep my drag loose and then tighten while fighting a fish, to me that is a big NO NO. I would rather loosen than tighten any day. What lb test are you running? Edited August 22, 2011 by anders
mike rousseau Posted August 22, 2011 Report Posted August 22, 2011 if this is becoming a common occurance... up the strength of your tackle!!! for musky my gear is 100lb test and up... line is 50lb mono or 100lb braid swivels and snaps are 150-300lb test 4x strong hooks heavy duty split rings... wolverine the musky i target are about the same weight as your kings... but it is more of a bulldog style fight... not screaming runs... and carp... they scream line... i run 50lb braid and big 12 foot rods with a lot of power to turn a fish... the rod lenght really allows you to steer big fish and put em where you want em... if your not pulling hooks/straightening hooks i would beef up your gear... if you dont wanna beef up your gear... start circling around any time you get a big runner... then... if you still think its huge and you wont be able to control it... start clearing your other lines and chase the fish... my 2 cents
BillM Posted August 22, 2011 Report Posted August 22, 2011 You aren't going to turn a big chinnie like you will a muskie.. You brute force these fish and they'll bust off. More line capacity would be a good idea. I was out with another forum member last year and we had a fish rip off 500ft of line in no time.
Gregoire Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Posted August 22, 2011 Try setting the drag at the tension you want it before you put it in its holder and loosen the drag if need be while you are fighting the fish. I never keep my drag loose and then tighten while fighting a fish, to me that is a big NO NO. I would rather loosen than tighten any day. What lb test are you running? We run 80# braid on the dipsy rigs. Today my buddy got the reels respooled and he now has 900 feet of line on the reels. As far as keeping the drag tight we have been told by experienced fisherman that big fish will break the line, straighten the hook, or have the hook pulled out of their mouth if the line is too tight, and I have seen a lot of straightened hooks already this year, so we have different opinions about drag setting. I think that with the 900 feet of line we will have a much lesser chance of getting spooled now.
BillM Posted August 22, 2011 Report Posted August 22, 2011 Good idea on the extra line capacity. Now you can run whatever drag you want. I wouldn't run big drag on a dipsy with braid anyhow, you're just asking for problems.
Harrison Posted August 22, 2011 Report Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) There are not many strikes that can compare to a big chinook smoking a dipsy in open water in mid August. Edited August 22, 2011 by Harrison
BillM Posted August 22, 2011 Report Posted August 22, 2011 There are not many strikes that can compare to a big chinook smoking a dipsy in open water in mid August. The best part is trying to get the rod out of the holder, lol!!!
Gregoire Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Posted August 22, 2011 if this is becoming a common occurance... up the strength of your tackle!!! for musky my gear is 100lb test and up... line is 50lb mono or 100lb braid swivels and snaps are 150-300lb test 4x strong hooks heavy duty split rings... wolverine the musky i target are about the same weight as your kings... but it is more of a bulldog style fight... not screaming runs... and carp... they scream line... i run 50lb braid and big 12 foot rods with a lot of power to turn a fish... the rod lenght really allows you to steer big fish and put em where you want em... if your not pulling hooks/straightening hooks i would beef up your gear... if you dont wanna beef up your gear... start circling around any time you get a big runner... then... if you still think its huge and you wont be able to control it... start clearing your other lines and chase the fish... my 2 cents Thanks for the input Mike. I target musky as well, and I can tell you that musky and salmon are quite different. In my experience musky will stand and fight you were they are, or will jump in an attempt to shake the hook. Salmon will peel off line, sometimes hundreds of feet in seconds. The big ones will stay deep, much like a walleye, only 20 or 30 pounds heavier. Salmon also have a very different shape than musky, they can use their mass to sit, and it can be very hard to move, much harder than musky in my experience. They definitely require a lot more finesse than Musky, and there is not the urge to horse them in as there is with Musky in order to release them, in fact you will probably loose even a small salmon if you try to horse it in. Musky are much easier to move in the water than salmon in my opinion. We already are running pretty beefy gear, 9'6" talora heavy action rods and 80# braid. We are running a 27 foot boat so circling is much harder, not to mention that you have to pull all your rods (we run 4 or 5) before you can circle, a process that will take a few minutes at least. We were almost spooled last night in under 20 seconds. It's a very different game from musky fishing.
Gregoire Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Posted August 22, 2011 The best part is trying to get the rod out of the holder, lol!!! Taking the rod out of the holder was what caused to rigger clip to snap...I just couldn't believe that the tension I put on the fish did not even slow it down a bit. It was like the line was attached to an freight train speeding up in the opposite direction. It was definitely one of the most exciting fish that I never caught. I still love the violence of a musky strike, mostly because I usually have the rod in my hand, but that was a rush that won't soon be topped. Actually I had a huge musky strike on a lure a few weeks ago, where the fish took a chunk out of my lure, but somehow did not attach itself to one of 3 trebbles. Maybe I should start a topic on exciting strikes where you loose the fish LOL
dave524 Posted August 22, 2011 Report Posted August 22, 2011 I would never use a reel with only 500 feet on it out there, I'd drop in pound test to get at least 300 yds on a reel or even more. Given a choice of 500 feet of 25 or 30 lb test or a 1000 of 17 pound I'd feel better tackling a big one with the 17 pound.
Fisherman Posted August 22, 2011 Report Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) IMHO, if you're running 80lb line, (don't care if it's braid, mono or dental floss), then there's something wrong with your set up. I've caught my fair share of brutes over the years and the highest I've ever gone is 20lb XT. I've only experienced a couple of break offs at the end of the season, usually when their teeth cut the line, a short 6" leader will fix that. Only one thing I forgot, it's possible the fish was foul hooked, in the tail or back, then it's almost a sure thing that even a small fish can spool you. Edited August 22, 2011 by Fisherman
misfish Posted August 22, 2011 Report Posted August 22, 2011 I would never use a reel with only 500 feet on it out there, I'd drop in pound test to get at least 300 yds on a reel or even more. Given a choice of 500 feet of 25 or 30 lb test or a 1000 of 17 pound I'd feel better tackling a big one with the 17 pound. I would have to agree with you on that one. Heavier test and more drag means straighened out hook IMO.
mike rousseau Posted August 22, 2011 Report Posted August 22, 2011 I fight carp on the st.Lawrence in areas with up to 5 mph current... I catch 30lb fish every year in the current... On shore... And I've seen them peel over 300 feet and a buddy got peeled almost 900 before he turned his 40lb carp... And we are on shore and can't follow or chase fish... Our hooks are only little size 2-4... I'm not putting carp or musky in the same category as salmon.... But using tools from different areas of fishing has helped me become a good multispecies angler... And don't tell me you can't turn a chinny... I've targeted them from shore also... I've landed chinnys over 30 with 10 lb mono on a 10 foot noodle rod... And before you say they don't have anywhere to run when they are in the rivers... I've landed 30 lb fish off of a pier... They had lots of room to run... And they did... And I turned em... Then reeled in the 400-500 yards of line that was previously on my reel...
mike rousseau Posted August 22, 2011 Report Posted August 22, 2011 Curious... Why dont you guys use stronger hooks?
anders Posted August 22, 2011 Report Posted August 22, 2011 i have never had a salmon straighten or break off any line yet (knock on wood)! I use 20 lbs test and have never had an issue with those occurances. We leave our drag set and turn down if we need too and never turn it up and we havent had any failure as mentioned. We will pull up all lines hit neutral if need be and even chase if we have to.
wallacio Posted August 22, 2011 Report Posted August 22, 2011 There has already been some good advice posted here already - definitely put more line on your reels than 500' and turn the boat if possible. Another tactic I sometimes employ is to encourage the fish to slow down or stop by thumbing the spool rather than clamping the drag right down. This allows you to adjust tension without breaking off and often when fish feel strong resistance they'll slow or stop. With this said (and as another poster already stated)sometimes there's nothing you can do and there are a lot of potential derby wining fish that are still swimming after a battle or two under their belts!!!
Gregoire Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Posted August 22, 2011 Just out of interest for you guys saying 80# braid is too strong do you run dipsy's, and if you do, what line do you use on your dypsy's?
Gregoire Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Posted August 22, 2011 i have never had a salmon straighten or break off any line yet (knock on wood)! I use 20 lbs test and have never had an issue with those occurances. We leave our drag set and turn down if we need too and never turn it up and we havent had any failure as mentioned. We will pull up all lines hit neutral if need be and even chase if we have to. That is really surprising to me. What rigs you run. Do you run dypsy's? Are you running riggers? Do you use spin doctors? Flasher? How big is the largest fish you've landed. What type of knots and line do you use. I just want to see if we are doing something wrong.
Gregoire Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Posted August 22, 2011 There has already been some good advice posted here already - definitely put more line on your reels than 500' and turn the boat if possible. Another tactic I sometimes employ is to encourage the fish to slow down or stop by thumbing the spool rather than clamping the drag right down. This allows you to adjust tension without breaking off and often when fish feel strong resistance they'll slow or stop. With this said (and as another poster already stated)sometimes there's nothing you can do and there are a lot of potential derby wining fish that are still swimming after a battle or two under their belts!!! I have tried thumbing the spool, I actually prefer this method, and was using it last night when I landed the 22 pounder. On the big hit last night I think the braid would have burnt off the skin on my finger if I was thumbing the spool. I find it much easier to do on the rigger set-up as we run mono on those.
anders Posted August 22, 2011 Report Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) That is really surprising to me. What rigs you run. Do you run dypsy's? Are you running riggers? Do you use spin doctors? Flasher? How big is the largest fish you've landed. What type of knots and line do you use. I just want to see if we are doing something wrong. fish solely with riggers, never dipsy's...running depths down to 100' sometimes more. Run mainly 11 inch flashers, abe n al, and dodgers, with the occasional spin doctors. I use trilene xt 20lb test with the trilene knot (which is pretty much the only knot i use), and the biggest i've landed has been 26lbs. I have lost lots of fish as well, just never had a break off or straight hooks. You may not be doing anything wrong just plain ol lady luck against us sometimes that's all. Edited August 22, 2011 by anders
Gregoire Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Posted August 22, 2011 We run 20 and 30 pound mono on the riggers. We had a break off yesterday on the riggers on the teaser head right at the hook.
dwc67 Posted August 22, 2011 Report Posted August 22, 2011 it's been a great year again for size i had a 500 copper with 700ft of backing get spooled even though we were turning the boat to try and catch it. i tell myself it was 30 plus even though i had spunky 25 take me out 900+ the day before
Harrison Posted August 22, 2011 Report Posted August 22, 2011 it's been a great year again for size i had a 500 copper with 700ft of backing get spooled even though we were turning the boat to try and catch it. i tell myself it was 30 plus even though i had spunky 25 take me out 900+ the day before I'd say 35+
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