dhickey Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) seems to me it was the liberals and NDP that forced him into trying to spend their way out of a recession...that money kept a lot of people working and built a lot of new buildings...it wasn't wasted And your point is what? That a coalition goverment works or that the pc take credit for being forced into creating jobs for middle class Canadians .??? Or that it is ok for Harper to finagle tax cuts to large corperations in order to pad his pocket first??? At election crisis.?? As far as wasted money goes. conservatives are notorious for suporting corperate bank accounts. At the expence of lower middle class Canadians. They are also well known for their arrogance and decete. If you look at their reccord over the past you will see that conservative majority govrment leaves nothing but a wake of decete... And it always centres around MONEY... WHERE DID IT GO??? ???????? Oh ya the next goverment has to spend millions telling the public where it went. Then the pc have the audasity to accuse the current goverment of wasting taxpayers money ??? DECETE... And no I do not support any of Canadas current political parties... They are nothing but a joke as proved Monday nite.. Edited May 4, 2011 by saltydawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pikehunter Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 When Mike Harris left office he was 4 billion in debt, and that was after he sold the 407. And the junior teachers and government workers that once belly ached about Ray days were axed. After Harris, those out of work would have gladly taken a Ray day here or there. Justin Trudeau is a little puke, he objected to Canada's citizen guide describing honour killings as Barbaric. He said he was uncomfortable with them described with such a 'perjorative'. Oh gee you would not want to offend a possible honour killer. I feel politically homeless as there is no choice of representation for my left leaning secular values. Oh well, have a good day folks. No matter what your politics have a good and healthy summer. Bent rods and tight lines. Agree. I'm amazed by how so many forget Mike Harris and what he did. And Mulroney and the GST. Then the Fiberals promise of dropping the GST. I am left minded, sorry if that offends those of you who are not but that is exactly why I vote and why this is the best place to live. Doesn't matter who gets elected, we all know that they will do whatever it is to piss off the next guy. We all need to go FISHING! Cheers to the conservatives for pulling the wool over the eyes of Canadians once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookinforwalleye Posted May 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 From someone who has multiple family members working in healthcare I can tell you we are still reeling from the Mike Harris days that crippled us. And so quickly have the people developed amnesia and forgot that the leader of our country disobeyed the very thing that makes this a democratic country.... and was REWARDED for it instead of thrown in jail. Get ready for the bush shock doctrine. Get ready for even less funding for our natural resource protection and things like nature destroying mines and power production get put above environmental concerns. Get ready for more jailing and less schooling. I can't wait for the old people who keep voting conservative to die off and I can't wait for the dumb youth to smarten up and get informed and vote. Well myself and a few of the other 50 plus gang of conservatives here appreciate your well wishes!!!! Us older conservatives have a plan you see, as I understand it smiling jack wants to double the pension so 4 years from now all us old right wingers that are close to retirement are going to stuff the ballot boxes with NDP votes and Jack is going to double our pensions and you young dummies as you call yourselves are going to pay for it. And don`t worry being young and dumb in most cases does not last forever!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blarg Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Agree. I'm amazed by how so many forget Mike Harris and what he did. And Mulroney and the GST. Then the Fiberals promise of dropping the GST. I am left minded, sorry if that offends those of you who are not but that is exactly why I vote and why this is the best place to live. Doesn't matter who gets elected, we all know that they will do whatever it is to piss off the next guy. We all need to go FISHING! Cheers to the conservatives for pulling the wool over the eyes of Canadians once again. What Bull, how much again did Chretien cut from health care in the 90's? how much did he spend on helicopters that he didn't buy? how many of the old ones fell out of the sky in the mean time? how much did he spend on the 2 million dollar registry? how much money was misplaced in the hrdc scandal? how many loans did he get for friends? how much money went missing during the sponsorship scandal? how many protesting kids were pepper sprayed at the APEC conference? "For me, pepper, I put it on my plate." Jean C. how much did he interfere with the tainted blood scandal? how much did he interfere with the investigation into the military's actions in Somalia? how about when he raided the ei fund to pay down the debt to the tune of 50 billion, that was ruled illegal btw. how about choking that protester, though I was with him on that one. The GST lie I'm sure there is more, you know his nickname was little dictator? amongst others. So look, all I am saying is that there is no point to this, Harper is not an angel, but he certainly has not reached the Chretien level of scandal yet, and he got 3 majorities, so lets take a breathe, accept that politicians are mostly cut from the same cloth with slight variations in their beliefs. The sky isn't falling, nor will it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warthaug Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) seems to me it was the liberals and NDP that forced him into trying to spend their way out of a recession... Harper was raising spending before the recession hit, which was clearly shown in the graph in the link I provided. Had he held spending steady, at pre-harper levels, we'd never have gone further into debt during the recession. I voted for Harper (literally, I lived in his riding at the time) when he rose to power. Since then he has done nothing but stab in the back those who supported his first election bid. Controlled spending - nope. Smaller gov - nope. No non-elected senators - nope. Set election dates - nope. Transparent government - nope. Instead we have one of the most costly and secretive governments since the 1970's, a senate stuffed with conservative fund-raisers and party faithful, and record deficits at a time when we should be saving money for the demographic tidal wave we can all see coming. I.E. he became, within weeks, exactly the same as the people he campaigned against. that money kept a lot of people working and built a lot of new buildings...it wasn't wasted In all likelihood, it was wasted. Stimulus spending has a long history, in our own country and others, and yet, it has never once succeeded in its goals. There is no reason to expect this time will be any different. In the past, stimulus spending was too little, applied too late, to have any impact. This time around there is no evidence to suggest this changed - at the time when the recession was technically over less than half the stimulus money had actually been spent. Even assuming the full dedicated amount was spent, you're still talking an "investment" of ~0.8% to total economic loss Canada experienced during the recession. Too little, too late. And those "new buildings" you're so excited about are, assuming history repeats itself, going to cause more long-term harm than short-term good. Stimulus spending like that used to build buildings creates a glut of temporary work, but at the same time depletes the "pool" of ongoing projects that are the bread-and-butter of construction companies. Long term effect, historically, has always been the same - post-recessionary woes in the construction industry, due to a lack of new projects to sustain the industry. Basically, this kind of stimulus steals from peter (i.e. the future) to sell paul (current voters) an illusion that something is being done. But building infrastructure does give politicians something to point at, come election time. And so long as people choose to ignore history and basic economics, those kinds of monuments to ignorance of history and basic economic theory will politicians votes. As the saying goes, those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it. Bryan Edited May 4, 2011 by Warthaug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbuck Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 I've been involved in the political game since I was a teenager hammering in signs, knocking on doors, being a scrutineer, campaign manager, etc... Politics boils down to power and money. Don't ever forget that. The best government we could have would maintain the status quo. We just don't have the money to double pensions, spend billions and billions on infrastructure, give to the poor. Do we need new fighter jets, yes we do, our current fleet of CF18's are coming to the end of their service lives. Buying items like that is not exactly cut and dried, the next generation of fighters need to be fully developed and that takes time and lots of money. They aren't cheap and it's not easy. Here in Canada, our politicians like to politicize every single big ticket defence purchase. Look at how much helicopters cost us. Hundreds of millions of dollars to cancel contracts and several crashed aging obsolete Sea Kings that are 30 years past their prime. How about submarines?? We went and bought old diesel subs from the Royal Navy that were not even seaworthy. I don't know about the rest of you but I want the men and women of the Canadian Forces to have good reliable equipment to defend my freedom, not old junk that nobody else wants. They don't need the Cadillac of equipment to do their jobs, the Chevy will suffice. The Halifax class frigates that are the backbone of our navy are getting older and we need to think about replacing them over the next 20 years, it takes time to develop weapons systems, hulls, electronics, engines, etc.... Our freedom that we don't fully appreciate comes with a price, don't ever forget that. As for taxation, yes, big businesses need tax breaks, otherwise they will relocate elsewhere where taxes are more favourable to them. How many well paying jobs would we lose?? Manufacturing is all but dead in Ontario because we allowed business to leave. Businesses are necessary folks, they provide jobs for everyone. We already have a bloated public sector that costs us a fortune to keep up. We can't have lots of social services without lots of taxation. All those services need to be paid for. I could go on and on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookinforwalleye Posted May 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 What Bull, how much again did Chretien cut from health care in the 90's? how much did he spend on helicopters that he didn't buy? how many of the old ones fell out of the sky in the mean time? how much did he spend on the 2 million dollar registry? how much money was misplaced in the hrdc scandal? how many loans did he get for friends? how much money went missing during the sponsorship scandal? how many protesting kids were pepper sprayed at the APEC conference? "For me, pepper, I put it on my plate." Jean C. how much did he interfere with the tainted blood scandal? how much did he interfere with the investigation into the military's actions in Somalia? how about when he raided the ei fund to pay down the debt to the tune of 50 billion, that was ruled illegal btw. how about choking that protester, though I was with him on that one. The GST lie I'm sure there is more, you know his nickname was little dictator? amongst others. So look, all I am saying is that there is no point to this, Harper is not an angel, but he certainly has not reached the Chretien level of scandal yet, and he got 3 majorities, so lets take a breathe, accept that politicians are mostly cut from the same cloth with slight variations in their beliefs. The sky isn't falling, nor will it. Nice but the left do not like to be reminded that they are not perfect, nice find on the Liberals raping the EI fund, that is what I was refering Dr.Trout too! He seems like a pretty smart guy so I am sure he new exactly what I was referencing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigdritchie Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 I don't know about the rest of you but I want the men and women of the Canadian Forces to have good reliable equipment to defend my freedom, not old junk that nobody else wants. They don't need the Cadillac of equipment to do their jobs, the Chevy will suffice. The Halifax class frigates that are the backbone of our navy are getting older and we need to think about replacing them over the next 20 years, it takes time to develop weapons systems, hulls, electronics, engines, etc.... Our freedom that we don't fully appreciate comes with a price, don't ever forget that. Well said bigbuck, and I could not agree with you more. But buying the gear isn't the end of it - there also has to be money for ongoing training and maintaining personnel. Our men and women in the CF do such an amazing job with the equipment they have because of the training they receive. That funding needs to be protected, and following Monday's vote, I'm more confident it will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrison Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) All this ripping on the NDP is a little pre-mature eJackuLayton wouldn't you agree. Plus we need someone to challenge Harper(for fun) and have some entertaining question periods. Edited May 4, 2011 by Harrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbuck Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Well said bigbuck, and I could not agree with you more. But buying the gear isn't the end of it - there also has to be money for ongoing training and maintaining personnel. Our men and women in the CF do such an amazing job with the equipment they have because of the training they receive. That funding needs to be protected, and following Monday's vote, I'm more confident it will be. Craig, the training that our men and women go through goes without saying, that doesn't get politicized. Our troops, pilots, and sailors are respected all over the world for being efficient and professional at doing their jobs. For those that have studied history, when nobody could do the job, the solution was to send the Canadians. GO HOSERS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookinforwalleye Posted May 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 All this ripping on the NDP is a little pre-mature eJackuLayton wouldn't you agree. Plus we need someone to challenge Harper(for fun) and have some entertaining question periods. Yes now we know why jack is always smiling!!! I am sure Jack will bring a velvet touch to question period!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave524 Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 I can't wait for the old people who keep voting conservative to die off and I can't wait for the dumb youth to smarten up and get informed and vote. Doesn't quite work that way, the youth smarten up and get informed and turn into conservatives, seems to be a natural evolution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 I've been involved in the political game since I was a teenager hammering in signs, knocking on doors, being a scrutineer, campaign manager, etc... Politics boils down to power and money. Don't ever forget that. The best government we could have would maintain the status quo. We just don't have the money to double pensions, spend billions and billions on infrastructure, give to the poor. Do we need new fighter jets, yes we do, our current fleet of CF18's are coming to the end of their service lives. Buying items like that is not exactly cut and dried, the next generation of fighters need to be fully developed and that takes time and lots of money. They aren't cheap and it's not easy. Here in Canada, our politicians like to politicize every single big ticket defence purchase. Look at how much helicopters cost us. Hundreds of millions of dollars to cancel contracts and several crashed aging obsolete Sea Kings that are 30 years past their prime. How about submarines?? We went and bought old diesel subs from the Royal Navy that were not even seaworthy. I don't know about the rest of you but I want the men and women of the Canadian Forces to have good reliable equipment to defend my freedom, not old junk that nobody else wants. They don't need the Cadillac of equipment to do their jobs, the Chevy will suffice. The Halifax class frigates that are the backbone of our navy are getting older and we need to think about replacing them over the next 20 years, it takes time to develop weapons systems, hulls, electronics, engines, etc.... Our freedom that we don't fully appreciate comes with a price, don't ever forget that. As for taxation, yes, big businesses need tax breaks, otherwise they will relocate elsewhere where taxes are more favourable to them. How many well paying jobs would we lose?? Manufacturing is all but dead in Ontario because we allowed business to leave. Businesses are necessary folks, they provide jobs for everyone. We already have a bloated public sector that costs us a fortune to keep up. We can't have lots of social services without lots of taxation. All those services need to be paid for. I could go on and on and on. Nicely said! One thing I can add regarding the fighter jets... our current jets as mentioned are out dated. As a member of NATO, we are required to manitain a fleet of jets that meet NATO's requirements, which our current jets do not. Obviously, the new jets will meet those requirements. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookinforwalleye Posted May 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Doesn't quite work that way, the youth smarten up and get informed and turn into conservatives, seems to be a natural evolution and the ones that are a gene or two shy in the evolutionary process are doomed to wonder in a liberal waste land!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torco Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Guelph is a beautiful red island in a sea of blue Seriously though we have an excellent liberal MP who more or else campaigned on himself and not his party. His main opponent was to put politely a bit wacky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrison Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 His main opponent was to put politely a bit wacky. Just wanted to thank you for reminding me to pick up hooks for wacky rigs this weekend. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbuck Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Headhunter, our current fleet of fighter jets do meet NATO's current requirements, for the time being, going forward, they won't, they will be considered obsolete. We have our responsibilities to meet with NATO and the UN, not to mention maintaining and defending our own borders. Our Soverignty is being threatened in the far North by Russia, there are constant incursions of both aircraft and submarines. Do we let others do what they please on and over our soil??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torco Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Just wanted to thank you for reminding me to pick up hooks for wacky rigs this weekend. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archie_james_c Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Guys there's no point in you putting info on here about how bad the left is. Liberals and NDP'ers know they're right and no amount of "facts" of their parties scandals are going to change their opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governator Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 I vote for closing all threads related to this or Osama and move on to fishing ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbuck Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 There is no right or wrong with regards to religion and politics. Everyone has a point so we all have to play nice and agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammercarp Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 I am happy with the results. I would be happier if the liberal party completely disappeared but this will do. I think it's great that Quebec voted for a real national party even though I don't agree with the left wing agenda. I hope this spells an end to the politics of "power at any cost" and group rights instead of individual rights. I am disappointed when people discussed the politics of the gun registry and nobody even bothered to mention the most offensive part which was the governments right to search and seize without a warrant. Gun owners in this country became second class citizens when the gun registry bill was passed. The right to protection from unreasonable search and seizure is a fundamental right in any free and democratic society. The Liberals showed their complete contempt for this in favour of garnering votes from the anti gun crowd and taking political advantage of the knee jerk reaction to the killings in Montreal. Fifteen years of a dark page in Canadian history is about to end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Headhunter, our current fleet of fighter jets do meet NATO's current requirements, for the time being, going forward, they won't, they will be considered obsolete. We have our responsibilities to meet with NATO and the UN, not to mention maintaining and defending our own borders. Our Soverignty is being threatened in the far North by Russia, there are constant incursions of both aircraft and submarines. Do we let others do what they please on and over our soil??? Thanks for correcting me... I have double checked and you are correct, our current fighters meet Category 4 requirements, however Nato will require Category 5 compliance in the near future. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThisPlaceSucks Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) I see that most intelligent debate has left this thread and has been replaced with the right's "intellectual superiority" complex. Let me say I appreciate the intelligent debates offered by Headhunter. I enjoyed our discussion yesterday and I appreciate discussing these topics because I learn more about a political parties agenda from the people that vote for them than i do the leaders themselves. And to lookinforwalleye, I say the opposite. For someone talking about how they've "matured" into being a conservative, you have the most immature statements in this thread and all you're doing is poisoning the thread by insulting lefties. And it's an "immature" 31 year old lefty that's pointing it out to everyone. Edited May 4, 2011 by Dr. Salvelinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blarg Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 The funny thing is that both sides of the debate will accuse the other of having said complex, and make very broad assumptions about each other. There are intelligent liberals, and intelligent conservatives, just as there are also idiots on both sides. I am pro-choice on abortion. I am pro-marijuana policy reform. I am pro-gay marriage. I believe in evolution...IN FACT, I am the VERY FURTHEST thing you will find from a Bible thumper. But, guess how I voted.... Funny how that goes, I share your beliefs and I voted for the evil empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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