The Great Global Warming Swindle

[ch312]

even though humans are the most intelligent creatures on the earth, it doesnt mean they know whats best. like someone already mentioned...the earth is going to be around forever, humans wont be. first it was dinosaurs that got wiped out....we are next. we are slowly killing ourselves but its NOT because of "global warming". its the pollution that is going to end up killing us off. the earth will become so populated and polluted that humans will die off because the earth wont be able to produce enough resources for so many humans. then the earth will slowly recooperate and a new species will evolve.

 

everyone gets all excited when they hear a new temperature record was broken. how long have humans been keeping accurate temp measurements? definatly not the hundreds and thousands of years required to determine if there is an actual problem that isnt normal in the earths cycles.

[Big Cliff]

Well, I'm getting old (I like it, I want to keep doing it for a long time) but here is my opinion on this whole issue:

 

"God grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change,

courage to change the things we can, and wisdom to know the difference."

 

A) If you feel you can not or don't want to change things, accept it and go fishing.

 

B ) If you feel you can change things and want to, go ahead! I'll be fishing.

 

If you aren't sure if you can change things or not go fishing and think it through then decide on either A) or B ) but I'll still be fishing.

Edited March 25, 2007 by Big Cliff

[Roy]

I think that RivrRat pretty well has it figured out.

[jughead]

Man, the last thing I thought I would read on a message board dedicated to those who enjoy the outdoors is a whiny diatribe espousing the right to pollute. Gold star for you!

 

With all things such as the global warming debate, both sides have some valid points, both sides trade in levels of hyperbole and the truth, as always, lies somewhere in the middle.

 

I am not 100% sure what is the root cause of global warming. Anyone who says they are is incorrect. It is happening however.

 

My motto is simply that pollution, emissions, eradication of greenspace, et al probably aren't helping matters so if I have the opportunity to cut back, modify my behavior and be a little proactive personally to cut down my impact on the world I do so. This winter I kept my house a couple of degrees lower than I had in the past. It saved me a few bucks, not a lot, and I used a little less energy. Did I save the world? Nope. But if everyone did it it would help quite a bit. I try to plan a little better so over the course of the week I take a couple of trips to the store instead of three. I don't cut as many corners on recycling as I used to. I car pool a bit more with my kids to hockey, swimming etc. It probably works out to one less car driving a few miles a week. Last year I rowed my little fishing boat a few more times instead of starting the motor up to go 100 feet down shore.

 

People can whine and moan and spend their time defending their right to have it all and damn the consequences. They are selfish and wrong. At the end of the day, my life is pretty much the same as it was in the past but I pollute a little less and I am more energy conscious. About the worst impact was that insetad of wearing a T-shirt around the house in the winter I also had to wear a sweater some days.

 

The reality is you can cut back 10-20 % of your energy use, waste, etc. without doing anything more than adding a little bit of thought and planning to your life and buying a sweater. It doesn't even have to be a nice or expensive sweater since you are likely only going to wear it around the hosue. Heck, you probably already own a sweater. It isn't terribly difficult and it had next to no impact on my ability to still do the things I like to do and enjoy life. I just do those things a little more effciently from an enviromentally conscious stand point. I ain't saving the world but I am harming it a little less than I used to.

[Roy]

GreenCoachDog has a nice sweater. His mother in law knitted it for him....bless her heart.

[Chris]

WOW, just like they said in the video. When the activists are faced with a theory other than their own, they resort to insults and name calling.

 

bookoobeast:

Not once did I insult you, I insulted your grammer and spelling apparently from someone with "degrees".

 

C'mon, an insult is an insult. Here's a suggestion for pigeontroller, bookoobeast and others. Try actually watching the video and if you disagree then come on here dispute the facts rather than trying to sound superior by throwing insults.

 

This debate is not about garbage thrown at a boat ramp. It's about the cause of global warming. Nobody is diputing tha fact that the earth's temperature has risen 1/2 a degree in the last hundred years, but most of the warming took place BEFORE the industrial revolution. The world had periods of much higher temperatures in the past before cars and factories. But I guess you would have known that had you actually watched the video. I tend to place my confidence in professionals in the field, not politicians trying to make a buck selling CO2 tickets or a doom predicting honorary scientist charging $200 a plate for global warming seminars. Where has Suzuki been for the last 15 years....not a peep. Now with the recent global warming fearmongering he's at the forefront getting rich.

 

Watch the video before commenting please.

[Pigeontroller]

Riverat, you be some kind of Oatmeal-eating, society shunning, recluse from KOM. I suppose you've got a E-Shelter already built at your "compound", no doubt with a lab to create a 'herd thinning" parasite which you will try to unleash on an unsuspecting world!

 

 

 

Anyone who thinks "God" will save us need not reply to this thread.

 

Chris, do you really think that there's no problem with the way things are going? Yes, maybe the current warming trend isn't caused by us. Can you really say that the enviroment isn't starting to suffer from our presence?

 

I hope myself and the other "fear mongers" are wrong. I hope guys with Chris's opinion are correct! I really do.

[Chris]

Pigeontroller:

Chris, do you really think that there's no problem with the way things are going? Yes, maybe the current warming trend isn't caused by us. Can you really say that the enviroment isn't starting to suffer from our presence?

 

I have never said that.

[Andy]

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/195794

 

This is the type of headline and article I'm talking about. Yes, we definitely need to clean up our act, but how many of these claims are truth and how many are pure speculation and fearmongering? How much is a result of CO2 emissions, and how much has nothing to do with it? This article makes "global warming" the "be all, end all" environmental threat and I just think the environmental issues we face are a lot more complicated than blaming every issue on global warming, cutting CO2 emissions, and pretending we've saved the planet. Andy

[Gary George]

It never ceases to amaze me how people will sieze onto one side of a media opinion on an issue. It's usually the first one they encounter. Then thats the gospel, everything else is wrong or has a hidden agenda.

 

Amazing how willing a forklift operator or a civil lawyer or grocery clerk is to suggest that someone like David Suzuki is dealing in fiction. Just try telling anyone of these folks how to do their job.

 

It's not as if I support Suzuki but geezus, he's made a career out of studying and understanding enviromental issues, how can you summarily dismiss his lifes work as propaganda. I figure his motivation is far purer than that of an oil baron or a dam building engineer.

 

Al Gore the selfish bugger, going to all that effort to effect a positive change on our enviromental impact. Dam him for not thinking more about profits and bottomlines. The arrogance of a guy like that trying to make the planet a kinder place for my grandchildren.

 

I wish I could just look the other way and go fishing or paddling but sadly for us all I am one of those misguided fools who thinks we stand a chance and tries to do a little something.

 

I'll apologize in advance for trying to make things a little nicer for my kids.

[Cookslav]

I remember what 20-25 years ago it was the opposite, we were all goingto die in the next ice age.

 

 

My thoughts exsactly....

I've followed this theory for a long time, and I'm not sold.

There are many things we could do better, and cutting back is in no way a bad thing IMO

But I'm not exsactly scared of an appocolyptic scenario, nor do appreciate tree hug'n hippies condeming me becasue I don't compost?

 

Theres proof to say we're warming, but there is proof to say we're cooling.

Theres proof to say its a Natural cycle, and then there's proof to say its human pollution.

 

Theres proof to prove the proof but its yet to be proven as absolute proof because the other science guys have proof to disprove their proof....

 

Yikes!!!

Whats a guy to beleive?

[fliptheslop]

exactly my point from the beginning this post was about global warming, I will not buy into the theory THE SKY IS FALLING, global warming and air pollution are 2 different things, pollutants we can do something about, global warming is going to happen as it has over the billions of years the earth has been here, Canada has gone from tropical rainforest to solid ice more than once.

 

Another fear mongering approach is the hole in the OZONE, tell you what close the hole and were all dead, no where for the crap we put in the air to go, the hole opens and closes as it needs to.

 

So yes I agree whole heartly we need to do something about air pollution,but that was not what this post started as, and as far as global warming I believe there is nothing we can do to stop this natural cycle.

 

Just one more thing to add about it being a natural cycle, answer this question, DID DINO"S LIVE IN THE SNOW AND ICE, not according to history, so what made North America so warm a million years ago, pretty sure it wasnt me!

[bigfish1965]

As long as the possibility is there, why not err on the side of caution? The vast majority of biologists, ecologists and meteorologists believe global warming is a real threat. They collectively know more than anyone posting here or anyone referenced to in a link. Therefore, they win.

There are enough indicators to make people reasonably concerned...warmer oceans, more severe weather, global average temperature increase, etc.

I just read a blurb in the newest OOD showing how bass are invading parts of Northern Ontario that they've never been seen in before because all the lakes in the north are getting warmer. THere was also another story on moose die-offs due to heat stress in the north.

Is all of this one giant coincidence? I think that it is a much bigger leap to believe that than to believe warming is a left-wing 'sky is falling' complaint.

Funny how people complain about coffee cups on a river bank but think air pollution is a myth.

[Gary George]

I went and read that Star headline and some of the article.

 

Just like this thread, it takes that kind of half truth, fear mongering approach to get a reaction out of people.

 

Proof that fliptheslop is correct at least as regards the manipulation of public opinion and sentiment. I'd say fliptheslop also nicely proves that the technique works.

[danc]

As long as the possibility is there, why not err on the side of caution? The vast majority of biologists, ecologists and meteorologists believe global warming is a real threat. They collectively know more than anyone posting here or anyone referenced to in a link. Therefore, they win.

There are enough indicators to make people reasonably concerned...warmer oceans, more severe weather, global average temperature increase, etc.

I just read a blurb in the newest OOD showing how bass are invading parts of Northern Ontario that they've never been seen in before because all the lakes in the north are getting warmer. THere was also another story on moose die-offs due to heat stress in the north.

Is all of this one giant coincidence? I think that it is a much bigger leap to believe that than to believe warming is a left-wing 'sky is falling' complaint.

Funny how people complain about coffee cups on a river bank but think air pollution is a myth.

 

 

Well said Rick. My thoughts exactly.

[martymonty]

I agree with Rick......err on the side of caution. I am not totally in agreement with the global warming thing though the earth is going through a cycle that is not good for anyone.(which I am sure everyone agrees) Just like I remember in the 70's about the coming of the ice age it wasn't a good thing either. It never hurts to conserve and use resources wisely, waste is never good. Just like flip said, I too will use and get what I need to live comfortably and have fun in life, but I will do my part and practise conservation when making decisions, at times I'm sure a balancing act but it never hurts to do things with everyones best interest at heart.

[douG]

Just like what Colbert said at the Whitehouse correspondents dinner. The man is a man of conviction - he believes the same damn thing on Wednesday that he believed on Monday. NO matter what happens on Tuesday.

[stasbrute]

Wow quite a debate GW always is, chew on this for a minute, I recentely heard on the news that if we conserve to much energy the supliers may have to raise prices to make up for lost revenues eeesh!. what the heck!!

[ryanheritage]

That's exactly right Rick, this is not fear to be spread it's information for education for people to take the steps that need to be done to help wrong or right. You know 25 years ago though there wasn't as many people, as much industry, and there was a lot less strain on the environment. We have become so industrious in the last 2 decades that we have started to put a strain on the earth, noticed I said started. I am sure the earth can handle alot more strain but my 7 yr old son can't. He can't enjoy the outdoors without being lathered in sunscreen and covered by a hat. I remember when I was 7 I never needed cream.... That part is from the depletion of ozone, remember when CFC's were banned? I guess they realized how bad the problem was after a fear monger noticed the hole in the ozone.The whole thing to this is to realize that over populating, forest removal, industry, pollution, and selfish jerks are what is causeing a multitude of problems with our earth. If you or anyone feels getting a bigger truck, bigger boat, yada yada is the answer, you need to give you head a shake, not only are you the problem you are also hurting my child. If you believe that I am a fear monger spreading fear or a do gooder, I am not I am just a person that realizes the need to set a better example for our children and do the right thing for them. Please please let me be wrong that the earth needs help.

 

 

You and I know this is a real issue without the media's hype, we can see it with our own eyes. Imagine what its like in the countries that produce more then 2% of the world Greenhouse gases?

Edited March 25, 2007 by bookoobeast

[Chris]

The vast majority of biologists, ecologists and meteorologists believe global warming is a real threat.

 

I think if you watch the video you will see that many of the reported 2000 scientists that activists claim support the CO2 global warming theory, have since withdrawn their support. One scientist who demanded his name be removed from the list of 2000 had to threaten a lawsuit before they would remove his name.

 

There are enough indicators to make people reasonably concerned...warmer oceans, more severe weather, global average temperature increase, etc.

I just read a blurb in the newest OOD showing how bass are invading parts of Northern Ontario that they've never been seen in before because all the lakes in the north are getting warmer. THere was also another story on moose die-offs due to heat stress in the north.

Is all of this one giant coincidence? I think that it is a much bigger leap to believe that than to believe warming is a left-wing 'sky is falling' complaint.

 

None of the scientists in the video claim that global warming is a myth. Scientists on both sides of the debate agree that the earth's temp is rising. Gore/Suzuki/Activists claim overloading the atmosphere with CO2 is the cause of global warming. The video's scientists point out that CO2 only makes up .54% of greenhouse gases. And man's contribution to CO2 in the atmosphere is almost insignificant compared to the amount of CO2 produced by the oceans and volcanoes and animals. Restrictive regulations, while maybe erring on the side of caution, could mean thousands of lost jobs as businesses try to cope with the high cost of restructuring. But that seems to fit in with corporate North America who is looking to move manufacturing jobs to less restrictive countries (where the labour is dirt cheap). Pretty convenient for them to explain away lost jobs when they can blame it on the restrictions levied to battle global warming. There is no doubt higher temps will cause many things to happen, for example polar bear movements are already being observed. Once again, if you watch the video it explains that the earth went through a period of much higher temps in the past, and amazingly polar bears survived that period in time. I was amazed at a presentation given by Michael Butler at an MCI meeting a while back where he explained that throughout the history of the muskellunge the earth has spent more time under ice than with green fields and blue water. How did those muskies every survive such a catastrophic event as the last ice age.

 

Funny how people complain about coffee cups on a river bank but think air pollution is a myth.

 

Rick, who in this thread or in the video is claiming that air pollution is a myth?

[Jen]

Very good points from everyone... My concern is the effect that all the sunscreen is going to have on our children in 10 or so years. Global warming aside, the products that we use on our bodies and our childrens have got to have some adverse effects... even though we are trying to protect them, long term are we doing the right thing.

 

( not to mention the bug spray, moisturizers, deodorants, hair products, soap etc... )

[tleriche]

I agree with bucktail when he said:

 

"Global warming is irrelevant in the fact that all programs that would reduce greenhouse gas emissions benefit humanity by reducing air and water pollution. Something that with 6.5 billion humans cannot be argued against."

 

The people who try to find the opposite side of the global warming debate really have their priorities mixed up. Even if you don't believe that humans are part of the cause of this problem, what issue do you have with cleaning up the environment in which we live? Cleaner air, cleaner water foster the wilderness that most of hold so dear. Pollution destroys fish and waterfowl habitat. I could go on for days, but whats the point.

 

I think it really comes down to the 'Who Moved my Cheese Syndrome'. People always resist change. The older generation are comfortable with their gas guzzling SUVs and their high powered homes. People who resist change are simply defending their way of life. It will take a generation or two before humans change the way we live, but unfortunately it'll probably be too late. All we can do is try.

 

BTW - Here is a good example of what can be done. There was a big debate about CFC's back in the 70's and 80's with regard to its effects on the Ozone layer. After much debate most countries banned the use of CFC's. In 1975, the US state of Oregon enacted the world's first ban of CFCs (legislation introduced by Walter F. Brown). The United States and several European countries banned the use of CFCs in aerosol spray cans in 1978, but continued to use them in refrigeration, foam blowing, and as solvents for cleaning electronic equipment. By 1985, scientists observed a dramatic seasonal depletion of the ozone layer over Antarctica. International attention to CFCs resulted in a meeting of world diplomats in Montreal in 1987. They forged a treaty, the Montreal Protocol, which called for drastic reductions in the production of CFCs. On March 2, 1989, 12 European Community nations agreed to ban the production of all CFCs by the end of the century. In 1990, diplomats met in London and voted to significantly strengthen the Montreal Protocol by calling for a complete elimination of CFCs by the year 2000. By the year 2010 CFCs should be completely eliminated from developing countries as well.

[Pinch]

but my 7 yr old son can't. He can't enjoy the outdoors without being lathered in sunscreen and covered by a hat. I remember when I was 7 I never needed cream.... That part is from the depletion of ozone,

 

 

Is it?? Or is it that we now know that too much exposure to the sun can cause skin cancer? In relation to that I think we are just better educated than our forefathers were.

 

In relation to global warming etc...isn't that part of the evolutionary process? Everything comes in cycles?

 

Im not sure what the cause is, I am certainly not a scientist, but it appears that even the scientists cant agree!!

[fishboy]

Wow-nothing like a nice little tea room discussion...

 

I apologize for not scrolling back and crediting the appropriate poster(s) but man, what's wrong with all of us taking a step back for some sober self-reflection and making a committment to being less selfish? We all value the outdoors and what it has to offer, so why not make a small contribution to reducing the negative impacts we have on the environment? Our society is plagued by selfish, me-first, it's not my fault I can't help it types. How about some more consideration for each other and our kids?

[Puckhead]

For me it's really simple: I find it extemely arrogant of mankind to think they could put a dent into a planet that has been around for millions of years and been through far more pressure from solar extremes than we could imagine. If the planet could talk, it would probably say give me a shower and remember that your all your meaningless peons in the grand scheme of my life.

 

Green movement is a "business" movement first and foremost. Exploit good natured tree huggers and use heavy doses of fear mixed in with some sprinkles of guilt to burn holes in our collective pockets. But we'll feel good about being ripped off I suppose... Hmmm... now that I think about it, has mankind gone wrong in the past with theories that weren't actually proven??... no wait, that couldn't have happened before... we are far too superior and important to have made colossal mistakes based on suspect science or convoluted fact? And surely global warming has nothing to do with external circumstances like decreased or elevated levels of solar activity that have direct interaction with cloud formation which plays a vital role in climate control. Nah. it must be humans because at this stage of the game, we are all god like and our 50-60 year industrial revolution has destroyed millions of years of evolution. Sorry, it's not just arrogant, taking theory for fact is absurd.

 

There is nothing wrong with cleaning the environment and being cautious with your energy use/pollution habits, but there is something wrong being bilked out of gazillions in personal and public dollars based on theories. All the while it's the theorists that will benefit the most, with fat bank accounts - if it was that important, why are most of these "green" organizations that are popping up everywhere for profit and not charitable?

Edited March 25, 2007 by Puckhead