got my first shotgun!

[Jonny]

The older Wingmasters did not necessarily have any checkering at all --- just a plain walnut stock.

 

If the gun looks well-cared-for I wouldn't worry about firing it in the least.

 

If the action cycles smoothly and locks up well when you push the pump slide forward (you can't pull it back without having pressed the trigger or the release), you're not going to have to worry about blowing it up.

 

MAKE SURE that you are using only 2 3/4 inch shells if that is what is marked on the barrel. 3" shells will cause a constriction in the forcing cone at the front of the chamber and make firing the gun UNSAFE. Other than that, you should be good to go!

 

I think you absolutely lucked out on this one. Happy hunting!

[craigdritchie]

The Wingmaster is MUCH better gun than the 870 Express that is now sold.....there are "Light" Wingmasters out there as my cousin had one in a 20 gauge.....the non lights take different barrels if you want to add one.

 

When Remington built your Wingmaster it was a blued finish........now the 870 Experess has a parkerized finished and it's not as good.

 

Uh ... nope. Remington 870 Express does not have a Parkerized finish. It has a standard blued barrel, receiver and magazine tube with a non-reflective, matt crinkly finish. The Express models are intended as a lower cost alternative to the Wingmaster. Since Parkerizing (an anti-corrosion treatment of the metal parts) adds to the overall cost of the gun, increasing the price by about $75 - $90 at retail, this has never been offered for the Express models.

 

Remington did sell a Parkerized version of the 870 for a while, which was called the 870 SP. I wonder if that's the one you're thinking of?

 

Express and Wingmaster use the same metal parts. The differences between them are are strictly cosmetic.

[Sinker]

From what I understand, its the supermag 870s that have the issues.

 

My express has been flawless for thousands of rounds. No need for the big shells anyways.

 

S.

[pike slayer]

so tonight i said screw it, im just gonna go fire it! live a little on the wild side!! i went to a gravel pit out of the city limits and i took the first shot at my hip incase the worst happens! and it fired perfectly! i set up some plywood and i fired at that to figure out what my patterns are like before i aim at a bird. i bought #4 and #6 shells to see what i liked before and the #4s blow the backside of the plywood out. the 6s do not, they dont do as much damage so im gonna go with the #6s. i bought the upland shells from canadian tire for upland game birds, rabbits and squirrels. and my gun says the 2 3/4 so thats what i got, definitely wont screw around with other sizes. so im all set for this weekend, the gun works flawlessly! look out partridge, im a comin' for ya! and please dont tip them off that im coming hahaha!

[craigdritchie]

The plywood test is a good start, but remember that the gob of shot elongates as it flies through the air, and soon looks more like a string of pellets than the disc-like patteern you see on the plywood (hence the term "shot string"). Depending on the load, you may find some of these "strings" have pretty big holes in them. Where ammo is concerned, you really do get what you pay for. Higher quality loads use higher grade components, so the shot travels more consistently after it leaves the barrel and makes connecting on moving targets a bit easier. That's especially true with a .20 gauge, due to a number of ballistic factors including the relationship between the barrel diameter and the mass of the shot column.

 

Try a bunch of different brands of shot and see what works best for your particular gun. You may find that you shoot identical shells from three different manufacturers and have much better success with one brand over the others. In fact, that's pretty common.

 

For hunting upland birds like grouse, pleasant and woodcock, you might also want to experiment with shooting target ammo, which is normally intended for trap shooting. It's cheap and generally very well made. I used to have an 870 that just couldn't miss with Winchester AA target loads and no. 7-1/2 shot.

[Billy Bob]

Uh ... nope. Remington 870 Express does not have a Parkerized finish. It has a standard blued barrel, receiver and magazine tube with a non-reflective, matt crinkly finish. The Express models are intended as a lower cost alternative to the Wingmaster. Since Parkerizing (an anti-corrosion treatment of the metal parts) adds to the overall cost of the gun, increasing the price by about $75 - $90 at retail, this has never been offered for the Express models.

 

Remington did sell a Parkerized version of the 870 for a while, which was called the 870 SP. I wonder if that's the one you're thinking of?

 

Express and Wingmaster use the same metal parts. The differences between them are are strictly cosmetic.

 

Hy Craig,

 

The 870 Express was a blued finish but no longer. I have included the link here for reference. ALSO the WORST thing you can do is OVER OIL a gun, any gun. Use oil very sparingly.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms...870_express.asp

[pike slayer]

thanks for all the great info craig ritchie! ya i want to try other brands but when i was at crappy tire those were the only 20g shells they had. i think i'm gonna head over to wallys world and see what kind of selection they have to offer. i'm a real newbie at this so expirementing is a must if i want to learn!

[dave524]

Uh ... nope. Remington 870 Express does not have a Parkerized finish. It has a standard blued barrel, receiver and magazine tube with a non-reflective, matt crinkly finish. The Express models are intended as a lower cost alternative to the Wingmaster. Since Parkerizing (an anti-corrosion treatment of the metal parts) adds to the overall cost of the gun, increasing the price by about $75 - $90 at retail, this has never been offered for the Express models.

 

Remington did sell a Parkerized version of the 870 for a while, which was called the 870 SP. I wonder if that's the one you're thinking of?

 

Express and Wingmaster use the same metal parts. The differences between them are are strictly cosmetic.

 

 

My 12 gauge 870 is the special purpose model. When steel shot came in I was using an Remington 1100 in 2 3/4 " with a skeet barrel and a modified barrel as a waterfowl gun. I figured since I was finished skeet shooting and I could use the extra payload room of the 3 in. for steel shot went looking for a 3 in. 870. Local gunstore that I frequented traded me even for my 1100 and 2 barrels for a new 870 special purpose. The parkerizing is a slightly a more gray finish than the black express finish, also the parkerizing is a chemical reaction with the surface of the metal, much more durable than the express finish which is on the surface of the metal like a paint. The stock too is real walnut with a matt finish as opposed to a walnut stained hardwood, the stock is machine cut checkered as opposed to a die pressed-in checkering. The gun also came with a nylon camo sling and swivels on the forearm cap and butt stock. It also had the full set of screw in chokes, not sure if the express had this feature at the time. I was happy with the deal and it is still a good waterfowl/turkey gun.

 

On the subject of the 20 gauge lightweight. Remington used to (maybe still does)make 2 different 20 gauge guns. The cheaper 20 was actually made on the same receiver as a 12 gauge as a cost cutting measure, as you can guess it really wasn't a lot lighter than a 12. For a premium price you could get a 20 lightweight which had a receiver scaled down to 20 gauge size so there was a substantial weight reduction, also most of the 20 lightweights I have encountered have had a mohagany stock further reducing the weight. As the receivers of these 2 guns are different they do take different barrels.

Edited October 1, 2009 by dave524

[craigdritchie]

Dave ... I remember those SP guns quite well. I really wanted one, but couldn't justify it at the time with a young family and all. At one point Remington had a fantastic deal where you could get the SP with a 28 inch barrel for waterfowl, plus a short Parkerized slug barrel for deer for only about $100 more. If only .....

 

Billy Bob ... thanks for the link. Still looks to me like some sort of blued finish that has just not been polished, but who knows. Too bad it isn't Parkerized tho ... at those prices it would be one heck of a steal.

 

Worm dangler ... welcome - enjoy the new piece! At some point down the road you may want to pick up an inexpensive press and start reloading your own shells. It's really easy to do, and you'll not only save a bundle of money on ammo, but will learn a ton about your gun and be able to dial things in so it hits anything you point it at.

[Jonny]

Parkerization was a process developed for military firearms and the abuse they take. A sporting firearm is never subjected to the same abuse, at least in the hands of a hunter who has some pride in his craft.

 

Just a simple point --- that being... a gun with a blued finish will stand up to decades of use (including cold, wet duck-hunting weather) and still have a perfect finish IF you treat the gun well. The so-called hi-durability finishes are IMO for those who are too lazy to take good care of their guns, and they do not match the classic look of a fine firearm with blued metal.

 

Dry your gun and wipe it with an oily rag after every use or handling, even if all you got on it were fingerprints; never store the gun in a damp gun case; swab the barrel with solvent and a lightly oiled rag after firing.

 

I would also highly recommend LPS-1 spray for the action. It drives out moisture, prevents rust and does NOT build up any residue (it's even suitable for fine electronics). Also, any excess will drip out. It's a little hard to find but a can will last you for years. WD-40 and other products do NOT hold a candle to LPS.

 

BONUS - LPS is great for fishing reels and other uses as well. It will not degrade plastics and synthetics.

[Billy Bob]

Just as a side note WD-40 has served me well for over 30 years.....never had a firearm jam (18 different ones) or rust. I store my guns in a safe in the basement of the house without any dehumidifier of any sort. But as Jocko has mentioned don't leave even a finger print on any metal parts. I have the same small rag for years that is saturated with WD-40. I store that rag also in the gun safe. WD-40 is the only oil I use on any of my firearms...

[pike slayer]

isnt WD-40 a degreaser not a lube??!?!? i only use wd-40 to take oils and greases off of things and to help loosen up seized bolts. then i use an actual lube after. but to each their own

[Dara]

The WD in WD 40 stands for water displacer. meaning, it removes the water. It is not a lubricant or oil.

 

But, when you have just blasted a hundred rounds through a semi auto shooting clay birds and it starts to get sticky ejecting shells, a few shots of WD 40 will get her cycling again.

Edited October 2, 2009 by Dara

[Dabluz]

20 gauge is great for small game.

 

Not many people know but 28 gauge to 10 gauge....they all have the same power. Meaning that the shot from each gauge goes the same speed and the same distance. Even the chokes are the same....meaning that at full choke, a 28 gauge will put 70% of the shot inside a 30 inch circle just the same a 12 gauge or a 10 gauge will do.

 

Most of the cartridges sold for shotguns have the maximum amount of powder for their gauge. Magnum cartridges....only the amount of shot is increased therefore, shot from a magnum cartridge actually goes a bit slower.....however, there is more shot in the pattern.

 

This means that if you shoot a rabbit with a 28 gauge or a 12 gauge, the only difference will be the number of pellets that will hit it. Therefore, somebody using a 20 gauge full choke could actually end up with more pellets in a rabbit when compared to someone using a 12 gauge improved cylinder.....if they are using the same size of pellets.

 

I've found that the best size of pellets for grouse is 7 1/2. At a reasonable distance, this size shot does zero damage to the breast meat of grouse. Whoever, the neck, head, legs will get a lot of damage. If a grouse is flying directly away from you, the 7 1/2 pellets have no trouble puncturing the thin back of the grouse....along with damaging the wing bones, the neck and head of the grouse.

 

If your 20 gauge shotgun is full choke, I would ask the gunsmith to cut back the barrel so that you would end up with a modified or improved cylinder choke. In my opinion, full choke is only useful for waterfowl or for shooting grouse at very close range....grouse that are on the ground and you have time to aim high in order to just hit them in the head. Modern good quality shotgun cartridges have far better patterns than the old cartridges of 40 years ago. The pellets stay grouped much better.

 

The only shotgun that has a terrible pattern is the .410. Cartridges for the .410 are still made the same as they were 50 years ago. I love the 28 gauge but the cartridges for this gauge are getting harder and harder to find and they are getting expensive too.

 

I have a Remington single shot in 28 gauge that I just love. I cut back the barrel and tapped the front bead myself. I cut back a good 6 inches of the barrel and it is perfect for rabbits and grouse here in my area of Quebec. Yes....the gun is registered with the cut barrel. I can sling the gun over my shoulder and not have the end of the barrel catching on branches.

 

I also have a Winchester M59 in 12 gauge. This is a super light semi-auto with an aluminum receiver and a fiberglass barrel....made in 1959. However, it's full choke. Since I cannot use steel shot for waterfowl with this barrel, I am hoping that I can find a way to cut back the barrel so that I could use it for small game. Otherwise, I will have to use tungsten shot when waterfowling and forget about using it for small game except pheasant. However, no pheasant in my region. Very expensive stuff and almost impossible to find in Canada.

[dave524]

I also have a Winchester M59 in 12 gauge. This is a super light semi-auto with an aluminum receiver and a fiberglass barrel....made in 1959. However, it's full choke. Since I cannot use steel shot for waterfowl with this barrel, I am hoping that I can find a way to cut back the barrel so that I could use it for small game. Otherwise, I will have to use tungsten shot when waterfowling and forget about using it for small game except pheasant. However, no pheasant in my region. Very expensive stuff and almost impossible to find in Canada.

 

CAUTION !!!!!!!!!!

 

The shells you want for that M59 are not the tungsten. There are tunsten/steel blends out there and they are every bit as hard and destructive on older barrels as straight steel. They are essentially steel loads, the tungsten is very heavy and is alloyed with steel to give the shot more weight and better downrange ballistics.

The shells you need to get to waterfowl with that gun are the BISMUTH, which is about the same weight and hardness as lead.

[Burtess]

Nice little gun you got there. That'l make a nice gun to pass down to the kids one day.

 

You may want to wear a pair of safety glasses the first couple times you shoot it.

 

My dad gave me his old Remington 1100 autoloader. It hadn’t been fired in 25 years when I got my hands on it. I remember the first time I shot the gun. I wore my safety glasses, and brought a buddy along with me. We where both a little nervous before the gun was fired for the first time. We were worried the gun would malfunction, or blow apart (not likely). My buddy was standing behind me, and to the right. When I fired the gun for the first time, the discharged shell casing flew out of the chamber, and headed straight for my buddies head. He thought the gun blew up, and pieces of it where flying at his head

You should have heard him scream I thought he had been shot or something!

 

Good luck ,and happy hunting.

 

Sorry to derail, but this got me thinking about a video that someone posted on facebook..... its funny....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seGVhlUw6xg

 

Burt

[Billy Bob]

The WD in WD 40 stands for water displacer. meaning, it removes the water. It is not a lubricant or oil.

 

But, when you have just blasted a hundred rounds through a semi auto shooting clay birds and it starts to get sticky ejecting shells, a few shots of WD 40 will get her cycling again.

 

Actually WD-40 is a lubricant as I copied and pasted from their website:

 

How is WD-40 different from 3-IN-ONE®?

 

WD-40 is the ultimate multi-purpose problem solver. WD-40 cleans/degreases, penetrates to loosen up stuck parts, prevents corrosion and is a light lubricant. 3-IN-ONE, with it's special drip spout, enables you to lubricate without any overspray or splatter. 3-IN-ONE is ideal to use on tools, rollers, hinges, in-line skates, wheels...nearly everything that moves.

 

For more info on WD-40 check out this website.....http://www.wd40.com/faqs/#q6

 

Don't believe me.....ask my Browning Sweet Sixteen that has seen thousands of round go through it without ever jamming and it still looks new as purchased in 1974.

[siwash]

Congrats! I'm doing one stop course for PAL and Hunting next week.

 

 

I jst did my course last week... now the bloody wait for PAL...

 

Why does it take nearly 3 months? Criminals don't wait but law-abiding citizens have to wait... oh the irony..

[Dabluz]

CAUTION !!!!!!!!!!

 

The shells you want for that M59 are not the tungsten. There are tunsten/steel blends out there and they are every bit as hard and destructive on older barrels as straight steel. They are essentially steel loads, the tungsten is very heavy and is alloyed with steel to give the shot more weight and better downrange ballistics.

The shells you need to get to waterfowl with that gun are the BISMUTH, which is about the same weight and hardness as lead.

 

 

Sorry, it was bismuth that I wanted to say. For some reason, I had tungsten on the brain. A slip of the tung....lol.

[Dabluz]

Be careful with penetrating oil like WD-40. Do not leave any in the chamber because this stuff will penetrate into the shell and even soak into the powder over time.

 

3 in One oil is for sewing machines. Use a high grade gun oil. If you want a light oil for the action of your pump gun or semi-auto, use Rem-Oil and remove the oil with a dry cloth before going hunting. Yes, the oil does penetrate between the molecules of the metal to prevent rusting however you cannot leave the gun "dry-lubed" for a long length of time.

 

When hunting, I clean my firearms at the end of every day. I apply a thin coat of oil and then dry cloth before going out again. At the hunting camp, I leave the guns outside in a dry place....this way, there is no condensation.

 

If a person does not like to take apart and clean a firearm, there are single shot guns and rifles that are easier to take apart. Or....bring along a person like me who likes to do that sort of thing.

Edited October 3, 2009 by Dabluz

[dave524]

Sorry, it was bismuth that I wanted to say. For some reason, I had tungsten on the brain. A slip of the tung....lol.

 

I was just trying to avert a costly mistake with that old friend of yours. Actually, there is a new tungsten based non-toxic shell on the market that I was unaware of when I posted. It is a tungsten/polymer shot, sounds like it is little balls of nylon with tungsten powder in them for weight. It is said to be safe in older guns as it a softer compound but I assume it would also be very hard to find and would be priced way up there too.

 

LPS , I use LPS-1 more as a cleaner of powder residue in gas operated autos and a short term metal protectant.

When I put a firearm away for a longer period, there is LPS-3, which is specifically a metal protectant that I use , just a light spray on a soft cloth and it puts a slightly waxy film over the metal but it should be removed before using the gun the following season, especially in the chamber, bore and locking mechanism of the gun.

Works good too for storage of less used things like cast iron bullet molds ( I use traditional muzzleloaders) and even on hitch receivers so they don't corrode and get stuck.

[Jonny]

My understanding is that WD-40 is kerosene-based, which makes it less suitable for water-displacement and light lubrication when there is a chance that it will come in contact with rubber, plastics and other synthetics. LPS is "non-reactive" with virtually anything.

 

WD-40 can be good stuff, but given a choice I will always choose LPS.

[Billy Bob]

But how would you know if it is kerosene based as it is a trade secret what it is made of.......and it says it's safe for most other materials.

 

OH, again copied and pasted from their website that WD-40 contains NO kerosene:

What does WD-40 contain?

 

While the ingredients in WD-40 are secret, we can tell you what WD-40 does NOT contain. WD-40 does not contain silicone, kerosene, water, wax, graphite, chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs), or any known cancer-causing agents.

 

Check out their website here....http://www.wd40.com/faqs/

 

I stand behind using WD-40 for over 35 years on my firearms and no malfunctions what so ever....and that include VERY VERY cold deer trips.

 

However, if others like what they are using (more expensive) then continue.....

 

Just a thought......what about using Mobil 1 0W-20 motor oil as a lubricant.

[Jonny]

If they post on their website that it contains no kerosene then it must be a pretty widespread misconception. My hunting buddies and I have certainly thought it contained kerosene for many years.

 

Anyway, if I had the same experience as you with WD-40, Billy Bob, I wouldn't change either.

 

Since I have been totally satisfied with LPS1, I'll stick with it (and nothing else) too.

 

I was once told by a retired CDN army sergeant that for cold-weather exercises in the far north, the troops boiled their disassembled gun parts to get ALL the grease and oil off so they would function in extremely cold weather.

 

I guess your suggestion to use 10W-30 is a joke?

 

Motor oil is way too viscous in cold weather, unless heated up inside an engine.

[Dabluz]

A firearm doesn't need lubrication to function so I guess boiling the moving parts was a good idea but there are silicone based oil that do not freeze up.

 

I even have some silicone based grease that I use on my reels and when I go fishing in -30 degree weather....the reels are as smooth as in the summer. It's an instrument grease that I got when I was in the military. Very thick too. Very surprising stuff.

 

I also hunt in very cold weather with a semi-auto shotgun for small game here in northern part of quebec and Rem Oil is great. Some guys use Rem Oil to lubricate the bearings in their baitcasters. I find it's too light for that use. I use Hot Sauce which sticks to bearings a bit longer and that stuff is lighter than Rocket Fuel for baitcasters.

Edited October 5, 2009 by Dabluz