LucG Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Okay here's the biology of it all... When a fish is in water,t hey weigh considerably less than when out of water due to buoyancy. The internal organs are all lined up in a specific way and are relatively loose inside the body cavity. This allows them to move around quickly and bend laterally. But the organs are designed to always be in that position...horizontal. When you remove the fish from the water, there is no bouyancy and the weight increases dramatically. Holding fish, especially larger fish, vertically causes the internal organs to be forced down into the rear of the abdominal cavity, stresses the heart and can cause serious damage. Horizontal holds keep the organs in relatively the same position. Yes, picking a very large fish up by the tail can cause significant spinal injury. Put the fish back into the net if you cannot get a decent hold of it then place it back into the water. The ideal landing to release for a very large fish should be something like the following... Fight fish to net or cradle. Leave fish in the net or cradle in the water for a minute or so before pulling it out of the water....this allows them to collect some oxygen before being taken out. Cut/remove hooks while in the net/cradle if it is safe to do so. Prepare camera. Wearing protective gloves (filet gloves work well) slide one hand under the gill plate up to the front closest to the mouth being sure not to get a gill raker .. those things will chew your hand up and hurt the fish..lift the fish up and toward you while sliding your free hand under the fish. You should now have the fish horizontal and for very large fish you can place it on your lap or use your forearm for additional belly support. Get your pics quick. Place the fish back in the water as close to horizontal as u can holding with both hands. Release your hold on the front of the fish and hold the tail until the fish struggles free of your grip. Well said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troutologist Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 A reminder of why this place is great! A question followed by some interesting back and forth. A top notch post by Rick offering a good reference. It is important to think about the landing/release process before hooking a fish. I read recently that BC has a rule citing all wild steelhead must be released without being removed from the water...not great for photos but better for the fish I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchy Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Any fish of larger size sure won't mind a little extra support. What he said ^^^^^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinookhunter Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I think any bashing is stupid. you already have hurt the fish with a hook and then draged it in pulled the hook out with pliers and then you are going to say " well I would never hold a fish vertical it could injure the fish" come on people. The fish are going to get hurt anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Thats the question though Bill....whats the difference? The weight on there little bodies is the same as a big fish...proportion wise! How is the weight the same? It's not like a 30lb fish has bones and structure 30 times as strong as say a 1lb bass.. If they did, then it wouldn't matter I guess. but they obviously don't. Cool topic if you think about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Okay here's the biology of it all... When a fish is in water,t hey weigh considerably less than when out of water due to buoyancy. The internal organs are all lined up in a specific way and are relatively loose inside the body cavity. This allows them to move around quickly and bend laterally. But the organs are designed to always be in that position...horizontal. When you remove the fish from the water, there is no bouyancy and the weight increases dramatically. Holding fish, especially larger fish, vertically causes the internal organs to be forced down into the rear of the abdominal cavity, stresses the heart and can cause serious damage. Horizontal holds keep the organs in relatively the same position. Hi Rick, could you please refer to the scientific study that verifies all of this. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Hmmmm I'll take a stab at it Chris. How about Archimedes' Principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I think any bashing is stupid. you already have hurt the fish with a hook and then draged it in pulled the hook out with pliers and then you are going to say " well I would never hold a fish vertical it could injure the fish" come on people. The fish are going to get hurt anyway. I disagree with your whole statement most areas of a fishes face do not have the pain receptors nor the brain to feel pain from being hooked and you sure don't have to hurt a fish by a proper hold on them..there are studies on catch and release that will confirm that only P3ta morons think other wise and they paid for an independent study on hurting fish and it came back stating fish do not feel pain in most areas of their body and don't interpret it the way we do and to compare hooking a fish to hooking a dog is stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paully Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I disagree with your whole statement most areas of a fishes face do not have the pain receptors nor the brain to feel pain from being hooked and you sure don't have to hurt a fish by a proper hold on them..there are studies on catch and release that will confirm that only P3ta morons think other wise and they paid for an independent study on hurting fish and it came back stating fish do not feel pain in most areas of their body and don't interpret it the way we do and to compare hooking a fish to hooking a dog is stupid Well said.... I totally agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splashhopper Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 No Idea man, take me for example, i had pictures of my bass being supported and others of it not. Just depends on the fish i guess, with a ski or a pike there body is so long and lean a second hand would be better rather than a bass being short and stout. Just my opinion, I don't bash fish holding. hey.. .who you calling "short and stout" I would like to be held by a "second hand" once in a while too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greencoachdog Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Hi Rick, could you please refer to the scientific study that verifies all of this. Thanks! I love this guy!!! Okay here's the biology of it all... When a fish is in water,t hey weigh considerably less than when out of water due to buoyancy. The internal organs are all lined up in a specific way and are relatively loose inside the body cavity. This allows them to move around quickly and bend laterally. But the organs are designed to always be in that position...horizontal. When you remove the fish from the water, there is no bouyancy and the weight increases dramatically. Holding fish, especially larger fish, vertically causes the internal organs to be forced down into the rear of the abdominal cavity, stresses the heart and can cause serious damage. Horizontal holds keep the organs in relatively the same position. Yes, picking a very large fish up by the tail can cause significant spinal injury. Put the fish back into the net if you cannot get a decent hold of it then place it back into the water. The ideal landing to release for a very large fish should be something like the following... Fight fish to net or cradle. Leave fish in the net or cradle in the water for a minute or so before pulling it out of the water....this allows them to collect some oxygen before being taken out. Cut/remove hooks while in the net/cradle if it is safe to do so. Prepare camera. Wearing protective gloves (filet gloves work well) slide one hand under the gill plate up to the front closest to the mouth being sure not to get a gill raker .. those things will chew your hand up and hurt the fish..lift the fish up and toward you while sliding your free hand under the fish. You should now have the fish horizontal and for very large fish you can place it on your lap or use your forearm for additional belly support. Get your pics quick. Place the fish back in the water as close to horizontal as u can holding with both hands. Release your hold on the front of the fish and hold the tail until the fish struggles free of your grip. I still disagree!!! What about when a fish jumps straight up out of the water 3'-6' high... and then does a belly flop?... and not just once, but several times!!!... Fish LOVE to be vertical!!! ... they just save it for special occasions! Then there's another scenario, take a relatively healthy human being and hoist them up by one leg (one of the strongest parts of the body)... more than likely you won't hurt them. Take that same human being and put them in the water (they're a lot lighter there eh!) and take that same leg and put a rope around it, lets make the rope 200' long... then tie the other end of the rope to a nice Lund, tell the person with the rope around his leg to start swimming in the opposite direction of the boat as fast as he can (nowhere near as fast as a fish can swim!)... then fire up the Lund and start running at trolling speed (6 mph) What do you think is going to happen when the rope tightens up... I think someone is going to have a hurt leg!!! Maybe a dislocated knee or hip, maybe pulled tendons or broken bones! Now when a fish swimming at top speed (a helluva lot fast than any human can swim) strikes a lure trolled at 6 mph with his MOUTH how much damage does it do??? Think about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alctel Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 I love this guy!!! I still disagree!!! What about when a fish jumps straight up out of the water 3'-6' high... and then does a belly flop?... and not just once, but several times!!!... Fish LOVE to be vertical!!! ... they just save it for special occasions! Then there's another scenario, take a relatively healthy human being and hoist them up by one leg (one of the strongest parts of the body)... more than likely you won't hurt them. Take that same human being and put them in the water (they're a lot lighter there eh!) and take that same leg and put a rope around it, lets make the rope 200' long... then tie the other end of the rope to a nice Lund, tell the person with the rope around his leg to start swimming in the opposite direction of the boat as fast as he can (nowhere near as fast as a fish can swim!)... then fire up the Lund and start running at trolling speed (6 mph) What do you think is going to happen when the rope tightens up... I think someone is going to have a hurt leg!!! Maybe a dislocated knee or hip, maybe pulled tendons or broken bones! Now when a fish swimming at top speed (a helluva lot fast than any human can swim) strikes a lure trolled at 6 mph with his MOUTH how much damage does it do??? Think about it! The fish when it jumps out of water isn't being held upright, so its organs 'go with it' as it jumps and shifts with the rest of the fish. The movement is no way comparable to being held vertically. Also regarding your 'human being leg' comment, human beings and fish are structured very differently inside! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greencoachdog Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 The fish when it jumps out of water isn't being held upright, so its organs 'go with it' as it jumps and shifts with the rest of the fish. The movement is no way comparable to being held vertically. Also regarding your 'human being leg' comment, human beings and fish are structured very differently inside! How aboot this!.. I'll hold my fish the way I want to and you hold your fish the way you want to!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooksetgod Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 How aboot this? You hold your fish the way you want and I'll bonk mine and take it home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alctel Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 How aboot this!.. I'll hold my fish the way I want to and you hold your fish the way you want to!!! I'd have to catch something over 1/2lb first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJQ Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 How aboot this? You hold your fish the way you want and I'll bonk mine and take it home. LOL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greencoachdog Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 The fish when it jumps out of water isn't being held upright, so its organs 'go with it' as it jumps and shifts with the rest of the fish. The movement is no way comparable to being held vertically. Also regarding your 'human being leg' comment, human beings and fish are structured very differently inside! Now would you like to comment on the fact of the fish swimming at full speed and attacking a lure traveling at 6 mph full of trebles traveling in a different direction with it's MOUTH???... hmmmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickster Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 This is reminds me of when I argue with my wife!!!!!!! I think I am right She agrees that i am wrong Will I ever win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greencoachdog Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Will I ever win OMG!!!... you killed those fish dude!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slop Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 How aboot this? You hold your fish the way you want and I'll bonk mine and take it home. I'm sorry but that comment brought tears to my eyes and put a hurtin' on my cheese locker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickster Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 OMG!!!... you killed those fish dude!!! Sorry bud but if it is any consolation they tasted as good as the 45" musky I got this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greencoachdog Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Sorry bud but if it is any consolation they tasted as good as the 45" musky I got this weekend. Ok!... since you put it that way, I'm good!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Hmmmm I'll take a stab at it Chris. How about Archimedes' Principle. Hi Roy, not the part about the weight being less in water....that's a no-brainer. I'm talking about the claims that are started with "OK here's the biology of it" but have yet to be backed up by science and are presented as undeniable fact, such as the claim that the fishes organs are "forced down into the rear of the abdominal cavity, stressing the heart and causing serious damage". Besides what about a horizontal hold that pushes those same organs up into the middle of the fish. I'm not expecting to see Rick reference any studies because there are none! Period. GCD, don't expect any speculation or responses to your idea that hooking a fish with a 6mph trolled lure can harm the fish because I've made that same arguement before and have never had a response. I guess it's easier for the h-hold proponents to ignore things that don't agree with their position than it is to debate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Thorpe Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 (edited) I'd have to catch one to tell how to hold it maybe someday Archimedes?????? is that a hold In ChrisS case he should never wear glasses when holding a fish From OMNR • Any fish that is removed from the water and held for a picture or for any other purpose should be held horizontally, not vertically, to reduce the risk of internal injury (Butler 2004). Edited September 3, 2009 by marc thorpe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greencoachdog Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 I'd have to catch one to tell how to hold it...Heck yeah!... you make all of your customers reel your fish in for you, you lazy thing!!! maybe someday Archimedes?????? is that a hold...I think it's a professional wrestling hold!... The Archimedes Nut Crusher! In ChrisS case he should never wear glasses when holding a fish ... tell me more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now