acmarou Posted August 13, 2009 Report Posted August 13, 2009 Not a problem, as long as it's legal and you're not on my boat. I don't condone it though. Go Nuts Man!!
bushart Posted August 13, 2009 Report Posted August 13, 2009 Go Danny, Go Danny .....it's your birthday.....
fishinguypat Posted August 13, 2009 Author Report Posted August 13, 2009 wierd a year or two ago i caught a salmon with a fly in its tail
StoneFly Posted August 13, 2009 Report Posted August 13, 2009 Wow!!!! A question like this asked on a fishing site??? Not sure if he got the tongue and cheek responses. :lol: Like others said, use spoons, spinners at rivermouths, but once they stay in a trib, leave them alone to spawn. Any idiot can line a fish. Once they enter the river they don't eat. Anyone that tells you they hit out of aggression when they are in a trib has no clue. That's a liner that felt a good hit in his mind. The only thing they're interested in is getting to where they have to be to reproduce. I used to think the salmon fishery here on the north shore of L.O. was a put and take fishery but the Pacific Salmon are doing just fine on their own here. Fish for them near river mouths for now and after the slaughter is over, fish for Steelhead. Done for now!!!! Cheers No Offence but maybe it's you that has no clue Bud!! I know a number of seasoned Veterans who would disagree with you. Instinct and aggression especially under low pressure, slightly high water conditions = Strikes. I wish I had some video of the many experiences I have had of the nooks cruising into a pool, swimming in circles, biting at each other and snapping at my presentations. A pool that saw maybe 50 fish cruise in over a 3 hours period, swim around for a bit, raise hell in the pool and then leave. there were never more than 5-6 fish in the pool at a time. I hit atleast a dozen of them without a single snag, now what are the odds they were lined in this situation? They werent just sitting pointed upstream with their mouths open at all. Surprise surprise I have expereinced this atleast a dozen times with not a soul in sight. Also, If you cannot tell the difference with how your float moves from a legit strike compared to a Line, well maybe you just havent fished enough. Its not alot different than a seasoned steelheader knowing instantly if a fish is hooked Legit vs. snagged. One thing I will agree with is that the Steelhead bite is more prevalent, but to say Salmon NEVER hit up river is just pure ignorance. Also, I know alot of people who would 100% disagree with your reproduction comment. I think the Experts may tell you it is closer to ZERO. Cheers, PS, Not Trying to ruffle any feathers, just trying to help
StoneFly Posted August 13, 2009 Report Posted August 13, 2009 wierd a year or two ago i caught a salmon with a fly in its tail LMAO,..yeah, I guess the odd one gets snagged, thats my Fly, can i have it back?
acmarou Posted August 14, 2009 Report Posted August 14, 2009 Majority of age-3 Chinook salmon (Oncorhynchus tshawytscha) in Lake Ontario were wild from 1992 to 2005, based on scale pattern analysis Journal of Great Lakes Research Article In Press Michael J. Connerton, Brent A. Murry, Neil H. Ringler, Donald J. Stewart Abstract Stocking of hatchery-raised Chinook salmon has been the principal tool utilized by fishery managers for controlling alewives in Lake Ontario and elsewhere in the Great Lakes. Stocked Chinook salmon are also often viewed by anglers as the principal source of maintaining catch rates. Stocking levels are often controversial and set with limited information about the relative contribution of wild fish to lake-wide populations. Recent research documenting large numbers of age-0 fish in tributaries suggested that wild reproduction was increasing and greater than previously thought. Estimating the contribution of wild Chinook salmon is imperative for successful management of this economically important recreational fishery. To differentiate wild from hatchery-derived Chinook salmon, we developed and validated a classification rule from scale pattern analysis of known-origin fish that was based on the area of the scale focus and the distance between the scale focus and the first circulus. We used this technique to determine the annual proportion of angler-caught, age-3 wild Chinook salmon in Lake Ontario from 1992 to 2005. On average over 14 years, the annual proportion of wild age-3 Chinook salmon was 62% (± 13.6%, 95% CI), but has varied between 24% (± 9.4%) and 82% (± 11.2%). Wild fish have been a high proportion of the Chinook salmon population in Lake Ontario since the late 1980s throughout a period when the lake underwent considerable changes, suggesting that wild and hatchery-origin Chinook salmon are both important components for managing the predator–prey dynamics in Lake Ontario and maintaining angler catch rates.
johnnyb Posted August 14, 2009 Report Posted August 14, 2009 Sheesh...it took a while, but things are finally starting to heat up!
acmarou Posted August 14, 2009 Report Posted August 14, 2009 The Floatboard Floatfishing Headquarters * Logout [ acmarou ] * 0 new messages * FAQ * Search * Members * User Control Panel Last visit was: Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:54 pm It is currently Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:12 am View unanswered posts | View active topics View new posts | View your posts Board index » Floatfishing Main Discussion Board » Anything and Everything Floatfishing All times are UTC - 5 hours Chinooks in the Great Lakes Moderators: Chris K, Bill Shearer, chromer, Chong, Dread, SkeinMachine, Administration Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1 [ 12 posts ] Subscribe topic | Bookmark topic | Print view | E-mail friend Previous topic | Next topic Author Message Waterloo Angler Post subject: Chinooks in the Great Lakes PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:19 pm Offline Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:13 pm Posts: 7 What would happen if the MNR stopped stocking chinooks in the Great Lakes? I know the natural reproduction is very limited, so I was thinking they'd be gone in maybe.....10.....12 years? What do you think?.....there are smarter people on this board than me. I'm mainly a Lake O. angler, so I don't know as much about natural reproduction in the other lakes. Report this post Top Profile Send private message Reply with quote Bof Post subject: Re: Chinooks in the Great Lakes PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:55 am Offline Site Admin User avatar Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:50 pm Posts: 514 Location: Northern Ontario, Canada Actually...the MNR does not stock any Chinook Salmon and the only Pacific Salmon that are stocked in Ontario are done so by clubs and organizations. The pacific salmon fishery on our side great lakes is currently made up of an average of somewhere in the hood of 70-80% natural reproduction or more depending on where you are. So what would happen if the MNR stopped stocking Chinook...well, exactly what's out there now! _________________ Go Big Or Get Off The Water Image http://www.twistedandaddicted.com Report this post Top Profile Send private message Reply with quote John from CRAA Post subject: Re: Chinooks in the Great Lakes PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:41 pm Offline Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:43 pm Posts: 84 Location: Streetsville, ON Chris (aka chromerman) has some great info on Lake Huron and Gbay stats. I beleive he said 92% of Gbay chinook were wild based on creel and clip studies. There are mixed reports on Lake Ontario. One study estimated 70% wild, another only 20% wild. Based on the level of adipose clipped shakers I've seen it looks like more than half wild (but this is preliminary). In a couple years when all chinook age groups have the adipose clip we will know for sure. My guess - 50-70% wild chinooks, with eastern GTA tribs at 90% plus wild since they have no direct stocking. The bottom line is chinooks are reproducing in most Ontario tribs and doing very well. Give the fish half a chance and they will surprise all of us! John _________________ President and Chair, Credit River Anglers Association "Give a little back to the resource we all love" Report this post Top Profile Send private message Reply with quote Waterloo Angler Post subject: Re: Chinooks in the Great Lakes PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:05 pm Offline Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:13 pm Posts: 7 Wow, things are much better than I thought they were. Thanks for the responses. I'm looking forward to getting out pier chucking soon. Report this post Top Profile Send private message Reply with quote kosta Post subject: Re: Chinooks in the Great Lakes PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:27 am Offline Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:27 am Posts: 125 Location: Vaughan, ON ...just curious What are the reports on returning Pacific Salmon numbers to GL tributaties, north shore L.O. for example? Report this post Top Profile Send private message Reply with quote Bof Post subject: Re: Chinooks in the Great Lakes PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:44 am Offline Site Admin User avatar Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:50 pm Posts: 514 Location: Northern Ontario, Canada Just an FYI - Yesterday I completed an assessment in the extreme headwater of a small GL's tributary. The assessment was done to determine the success of this springs steelhead spawn however it is a stream used by all migratories. First off...the reason for the assessment was the stretch had recently been rehabed from a pond type area into a meandering stream section built specifically for spawning migratories. I saw numbers of larval steelhead in the rehabed section I never thought possible...rehab and stream enhancement WORKS. Secondly and more importantly to this thread...we also noted that not one juvenille chinook was captured however there was a HEAVY population of Juvenille coho. Conclusion...the Chinook fishery might be faltering here and there but the Coho population seems to be doing extremely well. Here is a picture of a yearling Coho taken yesterday. Image _________________ Go Big Or Get Off The Water Image http://www.twistedandaddicted.com Report this post Top Profile Send private message Reply with quote John from CRAA Post subject: Re: Chinooks in the Great Lakes PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:59 am Offline Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:43 pm Posts: 84 Location: Streetsville, ON Cool info Bof. Amazing what some stream rehab can do. If you build it (or rehab it) they will come! Down this way the vast majority of chinook parr leave the system in May of the same year they are born. However some fall chinook parr and yearling chinook have been appearing more in eastern tribs in recent years. And I have heard numbers of yearling chinook have been found in past years on southern Gbay tribs (Chris A can add to that). The chinooks seem to be making some adaptive changes in some systems. I have not heard anything from the north shore for life history. Was that stream near your favourite steelie stream close to home? John _________________ President and Chair, Credit River Anglers Association "Give a little back to the resource we all love" Report this post Top Profile Send private message Reply with quote chromerman Post subject: Re: Chinooks in the Great Lakes PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:09 pm Offline Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:28 pm Posts: 86 Sorry guys been in the Peg for the last week so have not been on here. Ok for Georgian Bay the number is 92% wild and 75% on Lake Huron. This is based on 100% marked fish fin clipping in Ontario and chemical marking in Michigan. Interesting thing about this is that it is from both the US and the Cdn side combined. The release sites in Michigan which are places like Jordan Harbour had high (90%+) hatchery markings. These sites don't have the ability to produce fish, but the boats leaving those ports were returning with 75% unmarked fish. Meaning that most of the fish in the lake had to be hatchery. Sample size on the Notty was 161 fish all wild. Now in Lake Ontario those rivers have clouds of juvenile chinnys but I don't know if fish moving out a month after hatching contribute to the population. I was doing electro shocking on the Pine in October and for every juvenile steelie we got 10 juvenile nooks meaning they were spending at least 6 months in the river. My guess is if you stopped stocking you might see an impact in the west end but nothing out east. Chris Atkinson aka Chromerman Report this post Top Profile Send private message Reply with quote Boyd Post subject: Re: Chinooks in the Great Lakes PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:24 pm Offline Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:54 pm Posts: 319 Location: Springwater Township Pine's still pumping out nooks in numbers despite small returns from the lake 8) Anyone know what the deal is with those nooks with a yellow spot on em in G-Bay? Heard it was a hatchery marking from Michigan and was wondering if anyone has any info. Peace. Report this post Top Profile Send private message Reply with quote Mykiss7 Post subject: Re: Chinooks in the Great Lakes PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:28 pm Offline Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:05 pm Posts: 11 Location: Thunder Bay In Canadian waters of Lake Superior close to 100 % of adult chinook salmon are now wild with close to 40 years of natural selection (introduced from the Pacific Northwest in 1969). They have developed local adaptations based on environmental characteristics of their home tributary and the big lake. Stocking on top of existing wild populations decreases fitness and survival of these established populations. If we constructively manage habitat and exploitation chinook and other salmonids will support a wonderful and diversified sport fishery. Report this post Top Profile Send private message Reply with quote chromerman Post subject: Re: Chinooks in the Great Lakes PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:45 pm Offline Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:28 pm Posts: 86 Boyd according to the LHMU that yellow dot is not a hatchery marking but some sort of genetic anomolie. We took the fish that had the mark and checked them and there was no correlation between the dot and the chemical marker from Michigan. Weird eh? CM Report this post Top Profile Send private message Reply with quote Boyd Post subject: Re: Chinooks in the Great Lakes PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:45 am Offline Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:54 pm Posts: 319 Location: Springwater Township Weird for sure but good to know. Thanks Fish with that dot seem to be a different strain than most of our wild nooks here and are generally bigger. Won't be long now with amount of water on the move 8) Peace.
acmarou Posted August 14, 2009 Report Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) As far as salmon not hitting out of aggression when they're in a river system....I did a bit of searching and I was wrong. Sorry!! So go wave your fairy wand and your 12' lead at some dirty old boots and enjoy yourself. :lol: River Stage: Once the salmon go up samll streams, they stop feeding. In a bigger river like the Nipigon River ro the Niagara River, The salmon will still feed for the first few days in the river. 99% of salmon that are caught in a small stream are snagged. People fish like they are fishing for Rainbows and just wait for the hook and line to cross the salmon's mouth which again, gives the illusion that the salmon was caught legally. But not all salmon are snagged. Salmon have nothing on their minds beside spawning. At this time, they are very aggressive and territorial and will defend their spawning ground from Rainbow and Brown Trout which tent to follow salmon up stream to feed on their eggs. If you throw a Rapala or spinner that has Rainbow or Brown Trout colours, the salmon will hit the lure. They do not hit to feed, they hit to defend. Sometimes they will also hit loud colours such as bright red or bright yellow. Once the salmon start to swim up stream, they genetically start to disintegrate. Usually by the time they finish spawning, they are almost dead. Atlantic salmon do not die after they spawn. Edited August 14, 2009 by acmarou
kemper Posted August 14, 2009 Report Posted August 14, 2009 Wow!!!! A question like this asked on a fishing site??? Not sure if he got the tongue and cheek responses. :lol: Like others said, use spoons, spinners at rivermouths, but once they stay in a trib, leave them alone to spawn. Any idiot can line a fish. Once they enter the river they don't eat. Anyone that tells you they hit out of aggression when they are in a trib has no clue. That's a liner that felt a good hit in his mind. The only thing they're interested in is getting to where they have to be to reproduce. I used to think the salmon fishery here on the north shore of L.O. was a put and take fishery but the Pacific Salmon are doing just fine on their own here. Fish for them near river mouths for now and after the slaughter is over, fish for Steelhead. Done for now!!!! Cheers Not completely true, fresh salmon will and often due hit in the river....key is FRESH salmon. Old boots, not so much. Salmon fishin in larger systems is a blast
Headhunter Posted August 14, 2009 Report Posted August 14, 2009 Would a floro line be better for lining? Fish can't see it and swim out of the way!? HH
CLofchik Posted August 14, 2009 Report Posted August 14, 2009 Also, I know alot of people who would 100% disagree with your reproduction comment. I think the Experts may tell you it is closer to ZERO. It's not zero, but natural reproduction is nowhere near close enough on Lake O to maintain a fishery. Majority of age-3 Chinook salmon (Oncorhynchus tshawytscha) in Lake Ontario were wild from 1992 to 2005, based on scale pattern analysis Journal of Great Lakes Research Article In Press Michael J. Connerton, Brent A. Murry, Neil H. Ringler, Donald J. Stewart And if you look up previous studies by those bios you'd find they are very involved in the Ontario Atlantic salmon program. Coincidence, I think not. The wine money will run out in a few years with nothing to show for it, already they are laying the ground work to try and eliminate chinooks from Lake Ontario so they can carry on the Salmo Salar debacle. Sure most of the Kings in Huron and GBay are dependent on natural reproduction. That's why there's no salmon left. There's been a war on chinooks in Ontario for many years, you really have to question any and all "experts" on the subject.
redneck666 Posted August 14, 2009 Report Posted August 14, 2009 last year i had a 20 lbs king hit my 5 of diamonds spoon in the rapids but the funny thing is i was trying to un-hook it, i thought it was snagged but when i followed the line it turns out the thing spit it outta' its gills! made for a great dinner!
Rich Posted August 14, 2009 Report Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) Nov. 1st 2007 Caught on a Williams Wobbler. The fish jutted out 6 feet from a logjam and ANNIHILATED the spoon. I witnessed. Edited August 14, 2009 by Rich
StoneFly Posted August 14, 2009 Report Posted August 14, 2009 As far as salmon not hitting out of aggression when they're in a river system....I did a bit of searching and I was wrong. Sorry!! So go wave your fairy wand and your 12' lead at some dirty old boots and enjoy yourself. :lol: River Stage: Once the salmon go up samll streams, they stop feeding. In a bigger river like the Nipigon River ro the Niagara River, The salmon will still feed for the first few days in the river. 99% of salmon that are caught in a small stream are snagged. People fish like they are fishing for Rainbows and just wait for the hook and line to cross the salmon's mouth which again, gives the illusion that the salmon was caught legally. But not all salmon are snagged. Salmon have nothing on their minds beside spawning. At this time, they are very aggressive and territorial and will defend their spawning ground from Rainbow and Brown Trout which tent to follow salmon up stream to feed on their eggs. If you throw a Rapala or spinner that has Rainbow or Brown Trout colours, the salmon will hit the lure. They do not hit to feed, they hit to defend. Sometimes they will also hit loud colours such as bright red or bright yellow. Once the salmon start to swim up stream, they genetically start to disintegrate. Usually by the time they finish spawning, they are almost dead. Atlantic salmon do not die after they spawn. I understand your frustration with being wrong. Easy on the comments though I agree whole heartedly that Chinook salmon have no interest in feeding once in the river systems. That is why they feed like mad while staging at the mouths for the long journey for sex and death. That does not mean that they will not hit/strike. You pretty much stated it yourself. To say that on a particular day, say Sept 15 the fish will hit near the river mouths, but not on Sept 16 when they are 1-2km up river is a little bit silly. It is also silly to say they are fresh on the 15th and not on the 16th. I do however agree that once they have been in the river for a week or 2 or more,..they really start to turn. As for the Studies and BOF and Chris K's input, there are just as many that will say the oppsosite. thats the beauty of research, there is never a conclusion and noone ever agrees. just I note, I worked in research for 4 years and it is a business like any other and very self serving. I have no problem at all with every steelheader on the planet staying home during Salmon runs, more fun for me,..Lol. However, if you know what to do, where and when, it can be just as rewarding as steelheading, sometimes even more.
CLofchik Posted August 15, 2009 Report Posted August 15, 2009 As for the Studies and BOF and Chris K's input, there are just as many that will say the oppsosite. thats the beauty of research, there is never a conclusion and noone ever agrees. just I note, I worked in research for 4 years and it is a business like any other and very self serving. I can't really add anything to that...other than add Atlantics are really tasty planked with maple syrup. I have no problem at all with every steelheader on the planet staying home during Salmon runs, more fun for me,..Lol. However, if you know what to do, where and when, it can be just as rewarding as steelheading, sometimes even more. Oh shush now. Every pinhead knows that the mighty strong Kings will absolutely destroy what they call tackle. So we'll call them "boots" and only target the half dead salmon that can give up a good chunk of roe without embarrassing 'bows with it's lackluster fight in the creek.
elusive Posted August 15, 2009 Report Posted August 15, 2009 Some of the best fights i've had are the steelies and browns that come up during the salmon run.
JoshS Posted August 15, 2009 Report Posted August 15, 2009 If you're thinking about lining salmon, don't. There is no need, just do some research and fish them with real baits and you will out fish any lining loser on the pier. Wait for the good nights like after a strong north wind and cast glow spoons. If it's a little later, throw a J-13 or other cranks if they're stacked at the mouth. Once they build up in the lower big pools, learn how to drift skein and you'll never have to snag (line) a fish again. One thing I can't stand is walking to the end of a pier and seeing ten set lines out there leaving no place to cast like the respectable angler should be doing.
fishinguypat Posted August 15, 2009 Author Report Posted August 15, 2009 went to niagara region today to pick up a relative and i checked outport colberne and close to that... the salmon are biting like crazy people said. one man said he caught 15 and another said 10. they are in 70 -90 feet of water and are eating at 40 - 50 feet
Greencoachdog Posted August 16, 2009 Report Posted August 16, 2009 went to niagara region today to pick up a relative and i checked outport colberne and close to that... the salmon are biting like crazy people said. one man said he caught 15 and another said 10. they are in 70 -90 feet of water and are eating at 40 - 50 feet You'll need to put a 1/2 oz. egg sinker on that marshmallow to get it down that deep!!!
fishinguypat Posted August 16, 2009 Author Report Posted August 16, 2009 they were downrigging though
steverowbotham Posted August 16, 2009 Report Posted August 16, 2009 You need a heavy action Rod about 6 feet, a Cardiff Reel and 65 lbs braid. Use a 5/0 Mustad Triple Grip with a bag on each hook. A 1/2 oz bullet sinker and you're good to go! Come on man, this thread cant be serious?
acmarou Posted August 16, 2009 Report Posted August 16, 2009 Just curious dude(stonefly).What exactly did you research? I'd be interested in your findings. I put my faith in people that put their effort in our future. John & CRAA have done more for our fishery in my lifetime(I'm 52) than most!!!! What have you done!!! I'm Calling You Out!!! Show us where you got your expertise. Fun Wow!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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