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smally21

safety requirements - govt charts

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the safety nazi at our local marine supply is hounding me about how i need to have govt charts for every body of water i'm boating in. 30 years since i got my first boat, 10 years in the marine business, ive fished over 20 different bodies of water this year, not a single time has the opp, coast guard, local marine unit, lock personnel, no one has ever asked me to produce a chart. the regs say govt chart or substantial local knowledge but technically my gps with navionics card would not qualify. i use trakmaps fpr paper charts now, but they dont qualify. lets see - 20 lakes times 25.00 per chart = forget it!

anyhoo my question isn't so much the regs just enforcement - please share your experience in regards to safety checks, run ins with opp etc.

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Sounds like the local marine supply is trying to sell you some charts. :blink: I've never been asked to produce charts while boating.

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Your marina guy is definitely trying to sell you charts. I was checked by the OPP and MNR a few weeks ago and there was no mention of charts. Also, in the boaters course study material, there is no mention of having to have a chart on board. It's advisable to have the appropriate charts but not mandatory. Burn his butt, go to another guy and pick up one or two.

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the safety nazi at our local marine supply is hounding me about how i need to have govt charts for every body of water i'm boating in. 30 years since i got my first boat, 10 years in the marine business, ive fished over 20 different bodies of water this year, not a single time has the opp, coast guard, local marine unit, lock personnel, no one has ever asked me to produce a chart. the regs say govt chart or substantial local knowledge but technically my gps with navionics card would not qualify. i use trakmaps fpr paper charts now, but they dont qualify. lets see - 20 lakes times 25.00 per chart = forget it!

anyhoo my question isn't so much the regs just enforcement - please share your experience in regards to safety checks, run ins with opp etc.

 

Huh?

Sorry but this makes no sense to me. I have never (granted I've not been in the game long) had anyone ever mention charts. In fact, I have been a bit surprised by the lack of good charts that are available locally, since I figured they would be a good seller.

Jim

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Charts are not a legal requirement. They're a good idea, and they do reveal a lot of great fishing spots if you spend the time combing over them. But no law enforcement agency could care less if you have them or not.

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The old safe boating guide said that you have to have charts or knowledge enough of the area to keep safe.

 

How do you enforce something like that, if your not on the rocks you have had the knowledge to stay safe.

 

A fast study of your gps that does not meet their requirements gives you the knowledge that does meet the requirements, so check out the gps before the cops get there .

 

Cops here have tried to quiz boaters on the water but you don't have to know the names of places to stay safe, unless your parked on a pile of rocks I don't see how they can charge you and win in court for not having charts.

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Charts are not a legal requirement.......

 

Guys it's not the marine supply store trying to sucker him into expensive paper charts, it's the crazy stupid marine enforcement that's been going on around Hamilton in the last few years. And there is one line in the boating regs that is beautiful in it's vagueness......"sufficient local knowledge" OR approved PAPER charts.

 

Now alot of the marine nazis around Hamilton have latched onto that and will quiz boaters with varying levels of what they feel is "sufficient". The real problem is there are three law enforcement agencies that have marine units operating around the Harbour, and they all have the same quotas traffic cops do, and in addition to that alot of crews from other areas are trained here.......so it all boils down to alot of badges with minimal knowledge all zipping around gung-ho getting up into everyone's face. Record for me is getting stopped FIVE times in one day, twice by two boats with different crews.

 

And they are pushing hard to make charts mandatory (really just something else to shake people down for). I give Hamilton Harbour a wide berth on weekends, it just got too retarded. No, I don't need a chart in a sailboat anchored two miles away from it's slip, thank you very much.

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Yes, it's the Hamilton Nazis. I got checked in the channel at the lift bridge in Hamilton about 1 month ago and I got the same story...that I'm supposed to have paper charts. I agree that this is a ridiculous rule and I'm just not doing it. If I get charged I'm going to court because I want the judge to explain to me why local knowledge isn't good enough.

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there is no question that this requirement is in the safe boating guide and it is the law. i was actually stopped for a safety check today at longpoing and there was no mention of charts.

and you're right the safety nazi works in a local marine supply lets just say near the place we might be talking about. this condesceding know it all just about got the what for for his efforts the other day, lecturing me about charts and safety and how the police are going to treat me a certain way because i should know better, . like somehow he knows what is going on everywhere all the time because he can see it from behind the cash register at the marine store. - but anyway enough about this guy, the thing is i had 200$ worth of charts in my hand, he just kept saying they dont meet the standard, which i agree with. the question was enforcement, and i think i have my answer.

but just because the opp doesnt ask doesnt mean its not in the guide, which it is.

 

i think im rambling, too long on the water today.......

Edited by smally21

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Here is the section from the Shipping Act as it applies to us...

 

(2) The master and owner of a ship of less than 100 tons are not required to have on board the charts, documents and publications referred to in subsection (1) if the person in charge of navigation has sufficient knowledge of the following information, such that safe and efficient navigation in the area where the ship is to be navigated is not compromised:

 

(a) the location and character of charted

 

(i) shipping routes,

 

(ii) lights, buoys and marks, and

 

(iii) navigational hazards; and

 

(B) the prevailing navigational conditions, taking into account such factors as tides, currents, ice and weather patterns.

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thanks rick o'banion. that is the section. unfortunately i used my safe boating guide to start a fire in the rain on scugog or i would give you the page reference. seems like a bit of a stretch to apply it to a local trolling down the shore of mcdougall's pond or something in his 9.9.

 

just checked it is not listed as required equipment on the transport canada site.

maybe this guy was just trying to sell charts

Edited by smally21

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They're trying to scam you. Has anyone been fined yet for no charts? Can you imagine if it were law to have a map of every town, city or village that we would dive our car into on hand so we won't get lost? What a joke. Mind you, it's probably only a matter of time until chart makers lobby the politicians to make it law.

 

Thanks for the clarification Rick.

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You missed the point that it already is the law you must have charts IF THEY ARE AVAILABLE but there are exemptions the part Rick posted is the exemptions for vessels under 100 ton that follows the part that says you must have charts. If you can meet those exemptions you don't need charts.

 

The key is how much is sufficient knowledge to keep lets say a 16' tinner safe and it looks like the one to decide this is the Cops. Of all the confusing regs , this one is right there.

 

The regs are written by Transport Ca. and although they have the office of boating safety they are drawn up by those more used to thinking automotive than boats and sometimes things get a little goofy. The courtesy check program is there to provide statistics and feedback to trans Ca. and this is one place that looks like it needs attention.

 

The other thing is charts are very useful and not a bad idea to have.

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Never a bad idea to have, but to make them mandatory is somewhat silly. We just managed to make the knowledge of navigation laws mandatory (sort of) through operator cards.

Most have depth finders and channels are clearly marked. You do not need a chart on Lake Ontario. Without a GPS it is of little use and if you have a GPS, then you don't really need charts. And having a chart does not mean u know how to read them or make adjustments for seasonal fluctuations.

It would be up to them to PROVE you do not have knowledge of the waters. Any lakes without certified charts are exempt.

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