scugpg Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 I'd get a 2 stroke 25hp on that boat, especially if you plan to add flooring, batteries etc. It'll really move with a 25 on there. Try to find a 2 stroke that is a few years old that runs 100:1. Oil injection is way better though if you can find one. An Etec or 4 Stroke you're looking at about 40-50lbs of more weight in a 25 I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr7roo Posted July 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 First Thanks to everyone who replied and gave me there opinion After reading all your responds and doing lots more research on my own I broke it down to a choice of 2 (Really liked the ETEC but it's just not in the budget at this time) 25hp 2 stroke Mercury 115lbs $2549 20hp 4 stroke Mercury 2009 157lbs $ 2899 (Discount price through a friend who don't have 2 strokes available) I thought they didn't make 2 stroke mercury any more...I found a dealer that told me they had a 25hp 2 stroke mercury Brand New!! My first question to him was what year is it...The dealer replied and said Mercury don't put years on there motors any more they build there motor as LOTS...I was a little unsure about the answer he gave me thinking he was not telling me the truth and he just wanted to sell me a older motor cleaning it up removing the date label on the older motor and sell it as a newer motor... so I decided to do much more research and I phoned Mercury Marine Canada...I asked them do they still sell NEW 2 stroke motors she answered YES we produce a certain amount of 2 stroke motors and distribute them to certain dealers every year...Then I asked her are the motors 2009 dated she said they DON'T date them any more there motors are build as lots and the lots can go back in date as far as one and a half years but on there motor crate there is a date that tells you when the motor was produced... When I heard this I realized the dealer was telling me the truth. So here's where I am ONE last question Can you tell me the average price on maintenance for a 4 stroke and 2 stroke Yearly? (as I am shying away from the 4 stroke as I heard they are MUCH higher and expensive to maintain) Thanks jr7roo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawg_hauler Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 This year is the final build year for all Mercury two stroke carburetor engines from 20hp to 115hp. If engines were not ordered by dealers by July 1st they won't be getting any. The price for annual service to a four stroke would not be anymore than the amount of oil a two stroke is going to burn in a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 tone z71 Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Evinrude Etec is Bombardier.They just refuse to make a 4 stroke. Even in their snowmobiles. They are doing everything they can to stick with a 2 stroke while every other manufacturer is developing 4 stroke technology. my DS 650 Baha is a single cyl 4 Stroke,Bombi knows how to do it ,well Rotax anyhow,they also have supercharged and non 4 stroke Seadoos,I also thought they brought out a 4TEC in the Rev,either was when I took the cover off my Etec 115 I couldent see the block anywhere a MASS of sensors wires plugs crap,a modern day 4 stroke I could lay my hand flat all over the place ,Yamahas anyhow,so ticked off at my Etec sold boat and all,think your Etec is the crap ill give ya names and numbers of people with blown up ones in under 100hrs,think it wont need service for 3 yrs dont Kiss your mechanic good bye just yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 So here's where I am ONE last question Can you tell me the average price on maintenance for a 4 stroke and 2 stroke Yearly? (as I am shying away from the 4 stroke as I heard they are MUCH higher and expensive to maintain) Thanks jr7roo Well here's one last answer for the 4 Stroke average maintenance cost. I know somebody(don't care to look it up who) that spouted of the much higher cost of maintenance for the 4 stroke, I call Bull Dung, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Anyway, I fuel filter, (no name brand will do) $4.00, one oil filter, they run about $4-$6, depends where you buy them. Two litres of good 10/30 or 10/40 motor oil, about $6-$10, depends on your brand. One 500ml container of 75/90(maybe 80/90 depends on your mfgr) marine lower gear oil, around $5-$7. That's for a years fishing, total $25-$30 of maintneance, gas not included. There you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbouck Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Well here's one last answer for the 4 Stroke average maintenance cost. I know somebody(don't care to look it up who) that spouted of the much higher cost of maintenance for the 4 stroke, I call Bull Dung, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Anyway, I fuel filter, (no name brand will do) $4.00, one oil filter, they run about $4-$6, depends where you buy them. Two litres of good 10/30 or 10/40 motor oil, about $6-$10, depends on your brand. One 500ml container of 75/90(maybe 80/90 depends on your mfgr) marine lower gear oil, around $5-$7. That's for a years fishing, total $25-$30 of maintneance, gas not included. There you go. Bang on! Maintenance on a 4 stroke is not expensive at all. For that price I would go 4 stroke 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dara Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) Well here's one last answer for the 4 Stroke average maintenance cost. I know somebody(don't care to look it up who) that spouted of the much higher cost of maintenance for the 4 stroke, I call Bull Dung, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Anyway, I fuel filter, (no name brand will do) $4.00, one oil filter, they run about $4-$6, depends where you buy them. Two litres of good 10/30 or 10/40 motor oil, about $6-$10, depends on your brand. One 500ml container of 75/90(maybe 80/90 depends on your mfgr) marine lower gear oil, around $5-$7. That's for a years fishing, total $25-$30 of maintneance, gas not included. There you go. Other than the 2 litres of motor oil and the oil filter, its the same as a 2 stroke. The 2 stroke needs oil in the gas and ya gots to carry spare plugs in case you foul em. Black huh...you know how to swear? Tough decision really. Thats a good price for that 25, 2 smoke A 15 yammie is a grand more Edited July 16, 2009 by Dara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F7Firecat Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 fisherman sure likes his 4 stroke LOL maybe more than his wife Honestly on a small little tinner boat like that I'd go with the etec, less weight which is huge on a small boat, about the same in gas consumption, add 2 stroke oil oil when needed just pull and go. Sparkplugs.... the things will last forever these days they run so clean. And before I get bashed I own a Verado and love it also just like fisherman loves his honda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pikehunter Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) 20hp 4 stroke Mercury 2009 157lbs $ 2899 (Discount price through a friend who don't have 2 strokes available) Sounds like a reasonable price. Is it a short shaft and pull start? I think at the price it probably is. Also are there any other charges that were not mentioned to you? My 2005, 25hp, 2 stroke (not E Tec) Johnson long shaft with electric start was more than that when it was new. Edited July 16, 2009 by pikehunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawg_hauler Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Go with the two stroke, it's cheaper and it is five more horsepower. Both should come with a three year warranty (verify this with your dealer). You will get better performance from the two stroke. In my honest opinion, anyone who could have had the opportunity to take both engines out for a test on the same boat would pick the two stroke every time. They even run pretty quiet nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 fisherman sure likes his 4 stroke LOL maybe more than his wife Well it's more reliable than the wife, never says no to going fishing, never misses a stroke, low maintenance, did I mention it never misses a stroke, , not like you 2 stroke guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diggyj Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 You will find a MERCURY 4 stroke on the back of my boat. Quiet, reliable, great on gas. Dirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigdritchie Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 If you ever intend to upgrade to another boat, bear in mind the four-stroke will have better resale value down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bob Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 The owner of Ivanhoe Lodge told me he removed all his 4 stroke small outboards that were only 1 year old because of the extra weight AND they couldn't get out of their own way. Traded them all in for 2 stroke Yammys. He had too many complaints from his clients about the lack of speed. The extra 42 lbs could be crucial in a small boat. AND the two stroke will give you more power and speed than the same hp in a four stroke. This might not effect you or it might depending on how much other weight you fish with....do you fish alone or with someone........how heavy are you and or fishing partners..... Now both of these factors might not play into your decision depending how small of a hull you boat is. Here is what I would consider giving the two choices you have with everything being equal. 1) Is the 2 stroke oil injected or do you have to mix oil manually each time you need gas. If not injected I would go for the 4 stroker. 2) Are you handy to do your own oil changes, etc........... if not go with the 2 stroker. The prices everyone here have quoted is ONLY the parts, labor is going to COST you much more if you take the engine to the dealer for maintenance....... 3) Saving $350 PLUS all your taxes up there comes to what, almost $1000.........LOL You are in a great position, purchasing new power for you fishing machine. Try to chew the dealer down with today's economy. Too bad your not dealing with tow different dealers on the engines you have to choose from. Working one against the other always helps.........you should be making a offer on the engine of your choice.......the price is always dictated by the BUYER.....retail is for suckers (not the fish).... Now go purchase one of those motors, report back and catch some fish before the ice returns. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pikehunter Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Billy Bob made some good points. A lot of folks say 4 stroke or nothing, but what size motor or boat are the guys saying this running? Remember a 20 or 25 hp tiller with the operator (especially a heavy dude) at the throttle is quite different than a larger motor with a skinny guy at the wheel on a console boat. Every pound added at the back of a boat can make a difference, that 20, 30 or 40 pounds in added motor weight is a factor. BTW, I have no problem adding oil to my 2 stroke, pretty simple, just add 1/2 a small bottle to 12.5 litres of gas or a full one to a full tank which is about 24 litres just before putting the gas into the tank. As for maintenance I just change the bottom end oil in the fall, fog the engine and grease the fittings, done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scugpg Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 On a small boat like BillyBob said I'd be going with the 2 stroke. Weight is crucial - 43lbs less + 5 extra ponies will be really nice! plus you're saving money. I think Yamaha is the only one that does 100:1 mix though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 BTW, I have no problem adding oil to my 2 stroke, pretty simple, just add 1/2 a small bottle to 12.5 litres of gas or a full one to a full tank which is about 24 litres just before putting the gas into the tank. As for maintenance I just change the bottom end oil in the fall, fog the engine and grease the fittings, done! I've been adding oil to the gas for my 2 stroke motors for so long that it's just an accepted ritual. It's not a hassle. One of my motors is a 1980 25 HP Mercury tiller handle, used to be my primary motor and has seen a LOT of use. I take care with it so it still looks shiny and much newer (had to re-paint the lower unit --- too many miles of gravel road). Proper gas/oil mixture (careful about that), lower unit oil change before winter storage, carb cleaner in the gas at least for one tank-full a year, fresh plugs once a year, and it's still going strong, never needed any other maintenance. A real workhorse. I don't know if they build them the same any more, but based on this motor I'd buy two-stroke again with no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dara Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 I personally wouldn't both with a 4 stroke under 30 hp To me the biggest reason for a 4 stroke is fuel savings. That counts in your 50 and up motors. These little 25's sip it anyway. 20 hp 100:1 Yammie is my call. But at 2500 for the black 25...why not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raf Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 I think I agree with Dara, in the small motor class, unless you're finding the 4str at a great bargoon I would go 2. I dont believe there's a huge fuel savings in these small motors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calender Don Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 I have a 14' boat with a 15hp Yammie it's a four stroke by myself in the boat 23mph and I'm 240 lbs trust me four stroke are faster than the older 2 stroke. If I add a buddy thats 200lbs I'm about 19-20 mph according to my GPS (garmin) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 So where are these differences in actual power (either way) between 2 stroke and 4 stroke? Ft/lbs of torque (affecting prop pitch)? RPM's? It should be quantifiable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bob Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 So where are these differences in actual power (either way) between 2 stroke and 4 stroke? Ft/lbs of torque (affecting prop pitch)? RPM's? It should be quantifiable. If you have used both in real life fishing situations then the answers are right in front of you........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Also this... http://www.smalloutboards.com/4Stroke.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) Also found this... from an AMSOIL site... "First, is the problem of viscosity dilution," he says. "Four stroke outboard engines often have long periods of idle, and in cooler water the oil tends to accumulate enough fuel which then dilutes the viscosity and may lead to excess wear unless the additive package is fortified with extra surface active ingredients, like ZDDP, which contains phosphorous and zinc. In cars, the operating temperature is high enough, around 220 degrees Fahrenheit, to 'cook off the fuel but in marine engines the operating temperature is between 120 and 145 and at that temperature the fuel does not get vaporized as easily. "Automotive additive packages in API SJ oils, which is the category currently recommended for most of today's marine four stroke engines, can handle the oil dilution issue. But with substantial reductions in the percentage of ZDDP in future automotive engine oil categories under active consideration by the auto industry, marine applications may be placed at risk," says Schultz. "And we can't simply increase the thermostat temperature because that will cause the second problem," continues Schultz. "At about 160 degrees F. salt water starts to recrystalize inside the cooling system and begins to form stalactites and stalagmites and impede the flow of coolant. Some ingenious technological solutions have been devised, such as rerouting the oil through engine hot spots to give it the ability to shed fuel. But cooling system problems can be a major issue." Friedrich chairs the NMMA subcommittee in charge of creating FC-W specifications. He says, "We're trying to come up with an oil specification specifically for marine applications, which have special requirements and face a far harsher environment than faced by land applications. We're looking for a product that will specifically address oil dilution and provide more rust control inside the engine." http://www.smartsynthetics.com/articles/fu...boardmotors.htm All interesting in their own right for the general topic, but I'm still not having much luck addressing the power question. Edited July 16, 2009 by Jocko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosebunk Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Have two 15's. My two stroke is noisy and stinks. My four stroke is not. My two stroke Johnson is light at 75lbs, my Honda's a little heavier around 105. From a 20L tank, my two stroke gets about 75km to my four strokes 90km. I never did mind mixing the oil and gas. If I had to chose just one though, the 4-stroke would be it. For your boat go the max horsepower. For smaller 4-stroke outboards choose Honda first... the rest in whatever order ya want. However, if you think you'll be boating in places where a solid lower end is important for taking the odd bump... choose Honda or Johnson before Merc or Yamaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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