Zebco Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 What if everyone had disregarded Bill Gate's copyright on MS Windows. You wouldn't be making wiseass cracks on this message board right now. Lots of people run illegal copies of windows, they are downloaded from the same sites that the people who stole your dreams download from.
Marko Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 Lots of people run illegal copies of windows, they are downloaded from the same sites that the people who stole your dreams download from. Can you justify spending anywhere from 300-700 dollars on a program such as windows xp?? Its windows...i think that kinda says it all. Imagine how much fishing stuff you can buy for that much money haha
Bitsmith2k Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) Just to add my cent and a half , I think its wrong to steal . But than when I see the cost of some dvds !!!! now who is stealing !! I traded tapes with all my friends in the day we didnt have internet than but we all had tape decks, never thought of it as stealing just shareing stuff with my friends . Once I BUY the record or tape etc. does it not become mine and am I not free to do what I want with My Stuff can I not share it with my friends , Am I supposed to burn all the books I read after im finished in case someone else might read them ???I think if I use your material CHRIS to make some money maybe I should pay you "MAYBE", but once I buy your material is it not now mine , to do what I like ???? you can legally make copies of them for your own use.. as rick said earlier, you're levied on all your recordable media and recording devices.. that actually makes it legal to duplicate for personal use.. i'm pretty sure it was illegal to do back in the tape deck days.. the problem wasn't that big of a deal because people weren't digitally recording and mass distributing via the internet back then.. the book analogy doesnt work.. to make it work you'd have to think of it along the lines of photocopying each page and giving that to your friends.. the way i understand it you can give your old books away.. either way downloading copywrited material is wrong.. i dont go to the car dealership and just take a car because they're overpriced.. when my wife or someone asks me what software package to download in order to get music, i tell them iTunes.. you pay a buck a song (or whatever it is) and its yours, legal, and you dont have to worry about inadvertantly downloading something bad... and in my experience playing the guitar is considerably more difficult than writing a computer program.. Edited March 6, 2009 by Bitsmith2k
Stoty Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 C'mon now guys...... can't we all just get along? Let's get together and have an iPod party or something to bury the hatchet!!
The Urban Fisherman Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 you can legally make copies of them for your own use.. as rick said earlier, you're levied on all your recordable media and recording devices.. that actually makes it legal to duplicate for personal use.. i'm pretty sure it was illegal to do back in the tape deck days.. the problem wasn't that big of a deal because people weren't digitally recording and mass distributing via the internet back then.. the book analogy doesnt work.. to make it work you'd have to think of it along the lines of photocopying each page and giving that to your friends.. the way i understand it you can give your old books away.. either way downloading copywrited material is wrong.. i dont go to the car dealership and just take a car because they're overpriced.. when my wife or someone asks me what software package to download in order to get music, i tell them iTunes.. you pay a buck a song (or whatever it is) and its yours, legal, and you dont have to worry about inadvertantly downloading something bad... and in my experience playing the guitar is considerably more difficult than writing a computer program.. well said! Give ChrisS a break people... bottom line is, he's right and you're wrong!
Bitsmith2k Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) C'mon now guys...... can't we all just get along?Let's get together and have an iPod party or something to bury the hatchet!! ok.. iPod party on Stoty's boat.. what time? Edited March 6, 2009 by Bitsmith2k
Stoty Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 ok.. iPod party on Stoty's boat.. what time? , nice! Last Saturday in April sounds pretty good to me! haha
capt bruce Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 Bitsmith2k well said , (see guys some people can make their point with out calling me an ass*hole) I agree lots different me shareing with a friend or two than with the whole world . But when does it stop being mine , what did I pay for than if not the thing itself , to do as I like ???
Danubian Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) What if everyone had disregarded Bill Gate's copyright on MS Windows. You wouldn't be making wiseass cracks on this message board right now. My wiseassedness would have used Linux, Einstein. Are we related (I hope not) that's what my relatives call me. Not at all, but it rhymes prefect with SISSY (Eventually you made me say it, son!) Edited March 6, 2009 by Danubian
Stoty Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 Geesh, this thread is taking up bandwidth, and is slowing my downloads!!
fish_finder Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 WOW!!!! Jeez, does anyone really have any idea about copyright laws in Canada?????? Clearly not! I've been involved in writing, recording and performing music for about 15 years. I'm also a film maker. With that said, I've done my fair share of research into copyright law, and being Canadian, particularly Canadian copyright law. Laws in Canada are NOT what they are in the states or other countries for that matter. The DMCA laws that the states put in place have all but destroyed rights that any user has. Those big record companies......lets just say they aren't too pleased with the laws. Chris in particular, have a look at this book: http://www.amazon.ca/Canadian-Copyright-Ci...y/dp/1897071302 I'd also urge others to pick one up.....your library should have one. After all, Canadian copyright - users rights, is what allows us to obtain materials free from libraries.....and that includes music and movies. I see no use in owning the book unless you are creating and copywriting works for distribution. The book has been very useful for me. Its a great book for any artist, performer, author, musician..........you name it! dave
danbouck Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 and in my experience playing the guitar is considerably more difficult than writing a computer program.. I disagree 100%
Raf Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 sink or swim its clear the 'old way' of doing things is no longer viable. some artists have discovered they dont need a label and can produce a quality product and distribute it on the net for free. others continue to bend over for the 'man' (rec exec) and are whining. you aren't going to stop people from downloading music on the net. it's a new frontier for the brave..
fish_finder Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 sink or swim its clear the 'old way' of doing things is no longer viable. some artists have discovered they dont need a label and can produce a quality product and distribute it on the net for free. others continue to bend over for the 'man' (rec exec) and are whining. you aren't going to stop people from downloading music on the net. it's a new frontier for the brave.. Precisely Raf! Anyone even considering trying to make a buck from selling CD's is nuts!!! 100% nuts! Money in the music industry is made from those massive stadium shows......you know, like 300$ a ticket to see U2 or something like that. CD's, sorry, but in my experience, yes, I've had music distributed on 'Labels' and there ain't even enough money made to buy a big mac......
Bitsmith2k Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 I disagree 100% hah.. i've got lots of dev. buddies that do both extremely well.. i just dont have a musical bone in my body..
Chris Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 Chris in particular, have a look at this book: http://www.amazon.ca/Canadian-Copyright-Ci...y/dp/1897071302 I'd also urge others to pick one up.....your library should have one. I am well versed in Canadian copyright laws. What have I said that makes you think I need to read the book.
Chris Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 Precisely Raf! Anyone even considering trying to make a buck from selling CD's is nuts!!! 100% nuts! You are 100% correct and you also make my point very well. You can't make money selling something that people steal.
Chris Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 Dan Bouck I disagree 100% But you do get paid for writing that computer program, right?
Danubian Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 have a look at this book: http://www.amazon.ca/Canadian-Copyright-Ci...y/dp/1897071302 I'd also urge others to pick one up... I guess, the epitome of this heated thread would be reached when someone will download an illicit copy of the Canadian Copyright book. HAAAHAA!
Raf Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) You are 100% correct and you also make my point very well. You can't make money selling something that people steal. Artists *never* made any significant money from selling cds/vinyl. Majority of their income comes from touring and merchandise sales. Rec. companies on the other hand... we can do without them. Edited March 6, 2009 by Raf
Danubian Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 Dan Bouck But you do get paid for writing that computer program, right? But of course, my brave paddawan... Particularly when one writes cracking software, it pays a lot, but it's rather satisfaction than money. And all the GPL and Open Source software, what would you say about that?
Stoty Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 But you do get paid for writing that computer program, right? Not necessarily! I've written a lot of them that I haven't been paid for. But like people have said, things are different now. The internet is the way of the world, and people need to adapt to it, in order to be successful.
Chris Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) Artists *never* made any significant money from selling cds/vinyl. Majority of their income comes from touring and merchandise sales. Rec. companies on the other hand... we can do without them. Wrong!!!! Artists do make more money touring, but they can also make a pile selling cd's (the key word being "selling") My nephew Dane Mills was one of the original members of The Arcade Fire (over 1,000,000 records sold) and he made 60K just on their 7-song EP that they recorded themselves in a barn. Once people bought their full cd they went on their website and bought up all their EP's. I think they made at least two extra runs of 15,000 and 10,000 copies. Raf they did this without a major behind them. They went indie with Merge Records out of North Carolina. Two weeks before they recorded their debut album, Funeral, they drove from Montreal to Brockville to play a show for $50 in front of 100 people. Also what about Radiohead. They recorded their last cd themselves and put it on the internet and said you pay what you want. In the first month they sold a million copies for an average price of $8 per cd. That would take a headliner like Avril Levigne (who is at the top of the payscale) about 4 concerts to make a million. But how many shows would Avril be playing and how many free downloads would there be if people had not bought her cd first? It's all inter-related. If you think stealing is OK just because YOU feel it is part of some brave new world, go ahead and teach your kids just that. Don't complain if someone steals your fishing tackle tho'. Edited March 6, 2009 by ChrisS
bigfish1965 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 As the owner of copyrighted material that is for sale I have one comment for those who steal copyrighted material. You are thieves plain and simple. No better than someone who breaks into your home and steals your stuff. Chances are you won't get charged, but your only hurting yourselves. I see people on this message board complainging about the bailouts and white collar crimes that go unpunished. I see people on here just about jump out of their pants if someone trolls two lines or even keeps a legal fish. Yet when it comes to stealing something it's OK with you. Picture it from this perspective. You pay hard earned cash to buy a guitar and then spend money to take lessons and then hone your craft for years and years until you can play. Then you join a band and you work your ass off to rehearse enough songs to play live. Then you play live for several years to get good at it (that is if some DJ playing someone else's music hasn't eliminated the live venue). Then you spend all the money you made gigging for the last 5 years to record your own original music. Then you pay to have it mastered, then your pay again to have it reproduced. Then you pay to advertise, promote and distribute your cd. You sell some (never making your money back) and then all of a sudden it's on the internet and some shmuck is downloading it for free. Let's look at another perspective. After all the Bull in the first part of the last paragraph, you get recognized by a major label (BTW there are only 3 major labels left and they will fold soon as well) and they have you come in to record your songs for a cd. They front you 250K to record and another 250K in tour support. If you have a previous successful cd you would probably get more, including cash to pay for a reknowned producer. The band then sells a million records (not likely with all the thieves out there). But the record company only pays the band about 10% of the earnings (that's how record deals work). But first, out of that 10% the band must pay back the record company all that money that was fronted to them in the first place. In most cases bands do not see a profit until their third or even fourth million selling cd. Most of the rich and famous bands you see are not rich at all (unless you're a mega-star). It's all image and not like was in the sixties or seventies. Less than 10% of bands recorded by a major label will sell more than 10,000 copies of their cd. Meaning they will fold. A famous musician wasv recently quoted saying "There used to be a hundred bands out there each selling a million cds. Now there are a million bands out there selling a hundred cds." Knock yourselves out guys and keep stealing. Eventually all the good musicians will give it up. Many have already. Joni Mitchell, one of North America's greatest songwriters can't get a record deal because there's no room for her beside Brittany, Christina and Avril, who all sell regurgitated crap. The internet is a two sided coin, Chris. Many bands would not exist today if not for the internet. I own coprighted material too..lots of it, including a piece of this site. Does it get ripped off? All the time. Is there anything I can do? Not alot. There are bands I have bought CD's from after downloading a few of their songs. They would have NEVER slod me anything had I not d/l a song of theirs first. Musicians are doing quite well and up and coming bands had trouble geting signed long before the internet. That 19 yr old rap star who just got busted for beating his girlfriend did it in his LAMBOURGHINI Many artisits openly promote people downloading music. They know it is their best chance of getting noticed. I have attended several concerts of the band I mentioned earlier as far away as Florida. So my money spent on music has indeed tripled at least because of downloading. Part of the issue is I cannot go into a music store anymore and get what I want. If I want to replace my original Boston album...good luck. Downloading things like Photoshop etc is not costing Adobe much, if anything, because at $1000 a copy, it is not being downloaded by anyone who would have bought it in the first place. Now, how many guitar tabs have you looked up online, chris? Thats illegal too. Every musician I know does it. And is it harder to play guitar or program...its a toss up. Music remains made of the same chords, but computer languages change all the time. At the end of it all, no one has been convicted of it..it is not illegal, it is a violation of your user agreement and is a civil matter, not a criminal one. It is not theft because all people have done is rearrange binaries in their computer memory. But going into a store and lifting an actual CD is illegal and criminal. They took and tangible item. It is similar to the picture of an out of season fish, not really illegal, maybe, well no one has been busted for it, so no one can say yes.
Headhunter Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 Sorry, I have to disagree Raf... Artist's made great money off of record sales historically, that is until audio cassettes became popular, only to be replaced by file sharing. Not all artists, mind you, the successful one's. What I find most shocking here is two things... 1. people are defending their right to steal. 2. people responding to the thread changing peoples names, ie Chrissy! Who do you think you are , Joe Bowen? You may not agree with Chris or others opposed to YOUR point of view, but historically, we here have not lowered ourselves to calling each other names... it's about respect man... show some decorum! HH PS... no, I don't have a free to air satelite dish either! Go ahead, bash away!
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