The body of evidence just builds and builds for global warming

[cram]

so what will come first, the influenza pandemic I keep hearing about that we are "due" for or the new ice age we are "due" for

 

and that has what to do with this topic?

[cram]

Let's see....hmmmmm..Now if we don't destroy ourselves with Mutually Assured Destruction via Nuclear War, there's still the possibility of a Meteor strike, or a mass flood from polar icecap melting from a shift of the planet's axis..

Then there's the sub-Atlantic earthquake or the Alien Invasion..or the planet Nibiru that passes too close..or the Sun flare that cooks the Earth or..

 

 

meteor strikes do happen. Maybe not in our lifetimes, or our grand-grand-grand-grand-kids lifetimes, but on a geological scale its pretty certain. Look it up. Though i assume you're referring to hollywood movies about asteroids.........when is the last time you heard thousands of scientists or leaders of countries acknowledge this as an issue?

 

alien invasion - same thing (movies????.....or have you actually heard scientists and presidents/prime ministers talk about this?)

 

shift of planet axis -- in the history of our planet happens pretty frequently. Simple matter of the core (a big chunk of iron) flipping. Not really that "out-there". Look it up.

 

 

 

\

Edited September 4, 2008 by cram

[JerseyDog]

I think Global Warming is happening right in front of us. The signs are everywhere. Here and around the world.

 

There are always people with a vested interest who will deny, deny, deny as long as they can. Remember the tobacco companies? They would never admit their product will addict and kill you in the face of overwhelming evidence.

 

If we do nothing, Mother Earth will be fine - she's a few billion years old - this is like a Day in the Life for her.

 

Its our kids that I worry about. And the polar bears.

[danbo]

http://freedocumentaries.org/theatre.php?f...amp;wh=1000x720

[hammercarp]

I can't explain his comments for him, but i think the warm period you're referring to lasted hundreds of years (400?). It was also considered an anomaly, as was the ice age. I'm not sure if anyone knows why they happened....lots of theories about differences in solar energy (sun spots?), volcanoes (ash in the atmosphere blocking the sun), ocean currents, etc.

Natural cycles do happen. And, if you're an alien biologist studying earth (or a future non-human historian) I guess you could call this (as in right now) natural as well.

 

Something i found interesting (and is kind of good news for us) -- national geographic did a neat program (think its on their website as well) called 6 degrees or something like that. Described theories on what happens to the world with every 1 degree of increased temperature. The good part....according to them Canada is basically the best place to be as temperatures warm a little (longer growing season, etc, and the last safe place on hte planet if/when temperatures get really extreme.

Seems to me that what you are saying is that the climate can and does change for brief periods due to natural causes. Kinda knocks the wind out of the argument that because the current change is happening in a short period of time that it must be due to "unnatural causes",ie must be due to human activities.

Edited September 4, 2008 by hammercarp

[hammercarp]

I think Global Warming is happening right in front of us. The signs are everywhere. Here and around the world.

 

There are always people with a vested interest who will deny, deny, deny as long as they can. Remember the tobacco companies? They would never admit their product will addict and kill you in the face of overwhelming evidence.

 

If we do nothing, Mother Earth will be fine - she's a few billion years old - this is like a Day in the Life for her.

 

Its our kids that I worry about. And the polar bears.

 

I saw a bit on the tube where scientists found that polar bears survived warming periods before.

[OhioFisherman]

http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news146.html

 

Supposedly and scientific evidence points to it that dinosaurs and most other life on Earth were eliminated by a meteor strike on earth off of the Yucatan peninsula of Mexico. Again followed by a period of high volcanic activity, seems logical to me that an object of that size striking Earth would cause cracks in the Earth`s crust causing volcanic activity.

 

Hmmm? would I believe a scientist or a politician?

[bushart]

Ok I'll weigh in again...

 

To al the nay-sayers ask yourself the simplest of questions----what do you think is happening to all the crap that is being emitted into our air and water---producing daisies and puppy dogs??

 

"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"---so a couple billion tons of CO2 equals ?????

 

Also remember the earths' population has grown exponentially in the last 125 years.

 

Bushart

[scuro]

Seems to me that what you are saying is that the climate can and does change for brief periods due to natural causes. Kinda knocks the wind out of the argument that becuase the current change is happening in a short period of time that it must be due to "unnatural causes",ie must be due to human activities.

 

That was the whole point of the initial post. It's an event that hasn't happened in 125,000 years. Natural cycles?....may be. We have little warming and cooling trends which we have blown past. The larger trends seem to fall in 100,000 year blocks. Are we going beyond that block of time? Three of the years with the greatest amount of ice melting has happened in the last 4 years. One can't deny that there is a very strong trend happening here and scientists predict that it will all melt in a generation, may be less time. If more ice melts we will be getting way beyond the regular parameters of the larger cycle. If the whole Arctic ice cap melts, that would be an event that hasn't happened in 50 million years.

 

I just wanted to point this out. No need to debate this. It doesn't look like minds are being changed. Each summer gives us a new yardstick. Let's wait and see what happens. If I find data for other unique climatic events I'll post that too.

[cram]

Seems to me that what you are saying is that the climate can and does change for brief periods due to natural causes. Kinda knocks the wind out of the argument that becuase the current change is happening in a short period of time that it must be due to "unnatural causes",ie must be due to human activities.

 

Big difference btwn 400 yrs and 30 yrs.......no?

 

Look -- you can go back 100's of thousands of years and see temperature strikes both ways....all natural. All tend to coincide with CO2 (high for warm periods, low for cool periods) and dust (visa versa) from volcanos, meteor crashes, or whatever. Natural, yes. Good for us, no?

 

Anyway - i what do you think is causing the warming? What natural phenomena is causing it....please do tell. I can`t wait.

[holdfast]

That was the whole point of the initial post. It's an event that hasn't happened in 125,000 years. Natural cycles?....may be. We have little warming and cooling trends which we have blown past. The larger trends seem to fall in 100,000 year blocks. Are we going beyond that block of time? Three of the years with the greatest amount of ice melting has happened in the last 4 years. One can't deny that there is a very strong trend happening here and scientists predict that it will all melt in a generation, may be less time. If more ice melts we will be getting way beyond the regular parameters of the larger cycle. If the whole Arctic ice cap melts, that would be an event that hasn't happened in 50 million years.

 

I just wanted to point this out. No need to debate this. It doesn't look like minds are being changed. Each summer gives us a new yardstick. Let's wait and see what happens. If I find data for other unique climatic events I'll post that too.

All this malarkey has been only recorded in the past 40 years so every thing is theory at this time. Like I said if your so worried stop driving. I for myself is not worried. So I'm still going to drive to work and provide for my kids. Like I said, whenever the Economy is doing good all the tree Huggers start buying chains and nails and smoking Dope listening to singer want to be"s and university monkeys with the gift of gab. Yea I know your hero Mr Dress up wants to make it his Election Platform but like him its weak because the Economy is in the forefront now. In the 60s and 70s you had Nuclear War, 70s and 80s Acid Rain, 90s Global warming, now its Climate Change and Polar Bears. In the mean time I'm blaming all the increases in food and Products to greed and the Environmentalists. Now go Collect Wolf Scat and tell me the Wolves are being endangered to whatever is next and do me a favor and start plugging up all the volcanoes. One last thing, quit smoking because your polluting my air.

[JohnF]

This whole topic is huge, and abused by too many politicans and lobbyists to serve their own particular ends, though in some cases well-intentioned. I've done a little reading and essentially what I read was that although there are isolated instances (the proof offered to support global warming theory) of the world heating up, the various world temperature monitoring sites aren't really proving any overall warming trend.

 

Personally, I believe the world has a life of it's own (not necessarily the same kind as we have) and will change over time just like each of us, and the effects we impose on it may speed up or slow down the changes but the changes will continue to happen with or without us. I'm not defending our adverse contribution habits here, just saying that the warming appearance in certain areas and perhaps even world-wide will happen when it's ready to happen for reasons and influences other than those we impose. If you look at it rationally, the world suffered through severe flooding and at least one ice age without our industrious (industrial?) help. Why should man take all the credit for any changes we see happening today? That's pretty arrogant in a way, stuff worthy of the best politicians, so let's not play into their hands too quickly. I'm pretty cynical when it comes to politicians any more, after too many years of watching them slip and slide on our emotions and our needs to get what they want.

 

Global warming may well be happening, but I doubt man can do much to stop it, only alter the rate and degree. Who knows? The end result may not be all bad for us. On the other hand there may be some natural law beyond our ken that says we are here for a limited time only, our earth an exhaustible and finite resource, and this apparent warming is simply another step in the consumption of our main resource, and in our decline and fall. How's that for an apocalyptic view of man's existance?

 

On that note I'm off to the office to pay the tax for another day of declining and falling.

 

JF

[hammercarp]

Ok I'll weigh in again...

 

To al the nay-sayers ask yourself the simplest of questions----what do you think is happening to all the crap that is being emitted into our air and water---producing daisies and puppy dogs??

 

"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"---so a couple billion tons of CO2 equals ?????

 

Also remember the earths' population has grown exponentially in the last 125 years.

 

Bushart

 

You're mixing up physics and chemistry here and no the earths population has not grown exponentially.

 

[OhioFisherman]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jO9eK94...q3L4YwD92VEBL00

[danbo]

 

Edited September 4, 2008 by danbo

[hammercarp]

Medicine, vaccine? health care, doctors, hospitals, all the gazillion dollars that goes into health science & medical research?

The real reasons we live longer are:

better overall nutrition

we have taylored the enviroment to suit us better ( that is in cities anyway )

the reduction in the number and severity of plagues, pandemics and the like.

 

Are you saying that good healthcare in somehow enherently wrong?

[hammercarp]

North Pole is an island for the first time in over 125000 years.

We have had this debate, but I think it is important to bring new and unique climate events to light. I'm happy if no one posts and people simply draw their own conclusions.

 

Compare the years 1979 and 2003 to the image of this year on the link provided below.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...s.html?ITO=1490

The pictures, produced by Nasa, mark the first time in at least 125,000 years that the two shortcuts linking the Atlantic and Pacific oceans have been ice-free at the same time.

While I am at it. The north pole is not and cannot be an island. There is no land mass, it is just frozen over ocean.

[scuro]

All this malarkey has been only recorded in the past 40 years so every thing is theory at this time. Like I said if your so worried stop driving. I for myself is not worried. So I'm still going to drive to work and provide for my kids. Like I said, whenever the Economy is doing good all the tree Huggers start buying chains and nails and smoking Dope listening to singer want to be"s and university monkeys with the gift of gab. Yea I know your hero Mr Dress up wants to make it his Election Platform but like him its weak because the Economy is in the forefront now. In the 60s and 70s you had Nuclear War, 70s and 80s Acid Rain, 90s Global warming, now its Climate Change and Polar Bears. In the mean time I'm blaming all the increases in food and Products to greed and the Environmentalists. Now go Collect Wolf Scat and tell me the Wolves are being endangered to whatever is next and do me a favor and start plugging up all the volcanoes. One last thing, quit smoking because your polluting my air.

 

-It's an event that hasn't happened in 125,000 years.

-The larger trends seem to fall in 100,000 year blocks.

-Three of the years with the greatest amount of ice melting has happened in the last 4 years.

-If more ice melts we will be getting way beyond the regular parameters of the larger cycle.

-If the whole Arctic ice cap melts, that would be an event that hasn't happened in 50 million years.

 

The above is not "malarkey" so stop with the ridicule. Scientists can demonstrate these facts. When we look at these particular facts it creates one piece of evidence in the global warming case. Now if ever greater melting on north pole stops or reverses itself, then one could say the polar cap melting does not go beyond the extremes in variation. If on the other hand we see more melting we are getting beyond the extreme ranges of natural occurances. If it all melts, well then whoooaaa...something that hasn't happened in 50 million years has occured and that can't be explained by natural variation or causes.

 

So lets drop the subject. Lets wait until next summer and see is this strong trend continues, stops, or reverses itself.

Edited September 4, 2008 by scuro

[cram]

The real reasons we live longer are:

better overall nutrition

we have taylored the enviroment to suit us better ( that is in cities anyway )

the reduction in the number and severity of plagues, pandemics and the like.

 

Are you saying that good healthcare in somehow enherently wrong?

 

You're arguing against yourself. Weren't you the one in an earlier post claiming that its ridiculous to think pollution is bad for us when life spans are increasing? He's pointing out why lifespans are increasing (or one of the reasons) and you're giving a few others.

[cram]

While I am at it. The north pole is not and cannot be an island. There is no land mass, it is just frozen over ocean.

 

you're arguing semantics. everyone on this board (including you i hope) understood what he meant.

[ozaibak1]

Data from the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) has indicated a dramatic increase in sea ice extent in the Arctic regions. The growth over the past year covers an area of 700,000 square kilometers: an amount twice the size the nation of Germany.

 

Folks, forget the photos of ice melting in summer being bandied about by Al Gore and his $300 million dollar advertising budget.

 

The hard data is in. The Arctic ice sheet has GROWN by an area twice the size of Germany since this time last year.

 

No doubt Al and his investors, who already built the exchange where carbon-tax credits will be bought and sold once they can snooker you into agreeing to that tax, will now claim that your carbon dioxide is causing global warming cooling and that you are STILL on the hook!

 

The politicians are trying to take what the Earth does naturally and turn it into a crisis for which they will sell you a bottle of snake-oil to cure.

 

http://www.dailytech.com/Arctic+Sees+Massi...rticle12851.htm

[ozaibak1]

Are there seriously people that do not think the earth is getting warmer? I'm not talking about the cause, but people who seriously think it isn't happening?

 

Yes there are. Many scientists. As well as many people that get their news from more than one source, a source other than one tied with the people benefiting from this Bull.

[cram]

Data from the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) has indicated a dramatic increase in sea ice extent in the Arctic regions. The growth over the past year covers an area of 700,000 square kilometers: an amount twice the size the nation of Germany.

 

Folks, forget the photos of ice melting in summer being bandied about by Al Gore and his $300 million dollar advertising budget.

 

The hard data is in. The Arctic ice sheet has GROWN by an area twice the size of Germany since this time last year.

 

No doubt Al and his investors, who already built the exchange where carbon-tax credits will be bought and sold once they can snooker you into agreeing to that tax, will now claim that your carbon dioxide is causing global warming cooling and that you are STILL on the hook!

 

The politicians are trying to take what the Earth does naturally and turn it into a crisis for which they will sell you a bottle of snake-oil to cure.

 

http://www.dailytech.com/Arctic+Sees+Massi...rticle12851.htm

 

A massive increase from the worst year on historical record (last year). There was a substantial gain, but the ice coverage for 08 is still one of the lowest ever on record as well.

 

It'd be like saying a 900 lb man isn't fat because he weighed 950 lbs the previous year and saw a MASSIVE weight loss.l

[hammercarp]

You're arguing against yourself. Weren't you the one in an earlier post claiming that its ridiculous to think pollution is bad for us when life spans are increasing? He's pointing out why lifespans are increasing (or one of the reasons) and you're giving a few others.

 

No I am not and no I didn't. The argument was made that we created an enviroment that is making us sick and that only by spending massive amounts on healthcare are we over coming this. What I said was we created an enviroment that has resulted in an increased lifespan. That enviroment includes good health care.

[cram]

Yes there are. Many scientists. As well as many people that get their news from more than one source, a source other than one tied with the people benefiting from this Bull.

 

who?