Erie eyes report Aug 25 AM

[icefisherman]

I wander - anyone ever sued the weather service?

Now Seriously.... I've just about had enough of their total luck of any weather knowledge whatsoever...zip,zilch, nill...

 

They called anywhere from for 4 to 7 kms in the morning to 7 knots late in the day...different sites about the same forecast for the wind...checked right before leaving home this morning at 3am...no change....so here we go...launched at Port Bruce after wandering where to park even though I was the first and only boat there at about 5:20...left the channel with flash light...no problems...30 mph heading 210 to 65fow...as soon as we got there....turn the VHF on and guess what...all stations calling for 20 KNOTS (!!!) North wind...and we can see it hauling at us as soon as we stop, white caps all over...from there on...from bad to worse to super worst as far as the weather was concerned...at times we've had to fight waves pounding at us that were higher than myself...was wandering which one will dump tons of water in the boat and is it going to be from the site or from the back...even at full throttle my High Thrust 9.9 Yamaha was having troubles turning the boat to the left to head into the waves (had to fire the main motor at times as well) and into the waves was the only direction we can get hits...and we did get number of hits...lost few and boated 5 eyes...one was real hog. Due to the terrible weather and not very experienced crew members I've lost my nice salmon net into the lake...was ready to cry at that point...Now I am in the market for another one if someone has good used one for sale...the one I had and want was rubberized large size with extension handle...

by 9:30 bite died off and we were still trying to stay in the boat hitting arms, legs and into each other...what a nightmare...tried for another hour and a half and decided we've had enough punishment for the rest of the year and after getting 3 shippies and one perch called the day...

On the way back heard of a guy who run out of gas 6.3 miles from Bruce, told him we'll tow him despite the weather as I still remember how no one answered my call for help last September when me and my son had to stay 27km from shore all night...anyhow what a day to run out of gas...took us a while to reach him as we were way out there...and by the time we got to him another much larger boat just hooked him and started towing him back to port...

After making sure everything is OK with the tow we continued to port as well. SLOW...ride back...40 min in the morning turned into 2 hours and 20 min on the way back...waves were crushing into my boat no matter which direction I try and we were all wet...got to the launch finally to find out one of my rivets popped out. It was the highest one of the three vertical ones...good for us it was not a bottom one...may have taken much deeper bath then....

 

Spoke to some nice folks at the launch and they told me about Proctors and Ron Bankes Marine,....called Proctors but they didn't want to serve me right the way on my way home though it would have taken them just few minutes.. I insisted to get home with my great boat all fixed up....so called Ron Banks and he told me to stop by....it took them only 15 min and my boat is again like new, even the rivet’s head is painted the right color now. What great service on super short notice.

 

Anyhow...I am sitting at home now...and thinking about today...a friend and my 3 year old son were in the boat........both very inexperienced and especially in such conditions...how can people rely and count on weather forecast that are so WRONG...not by couple km...but 400-500%!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

This could have easily cost people's lives today...

ALL weather guys MUST be fired right this minute...their so far off target forecasts are so absolutely appalling it's not even funny anymore!

 

Anyhow...after all the beating my boat took today...I feel I can trust it even in worse conditions (not that I'll try to be in such again)...what a good purchase I've made last November...

 

Here is what we've got for all our troubles...finally I've managed to catch some eyes on Erie even though it did cost me a lot and could have cost me even more....

 

 

At the end....my best advice to all you guys- NEVER trust the weather man ever!!!

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

[Zubris21]

Sounds pretty scary! I'm glad you and your crew made it back in safely. Also great on you for going out of your way to tow in the other boat, even if you didn't end up helping, the right thought was there. Sounds like a pretty distressing situation he was in.

[Leecher]

Great report and pics icefisherman

 

The weather is all over the place this year and by what you experienced....would not want to be caught in that type of environment on any of the great lakes.

 

Happy that you made it to shore safely.

 

Thanks for sharing

Leechman

[sonny]

I don't think i would ever take the chance that you did!

[Guest Johnny Bass]

And that is why I don't fish Erie in my boat.... I hear South winds on Erie are even worse.

 

Like I told you, that boat you have is solid! Sure you lost a net, but at least you guys made it back safe and sound. I'm surprised you still continued to fish in that weather. Not only was it windy it was COLD!!! Anyways, thanks for the report.

[Greencoachdog]

It was time to turn around and come back in when you got out and realized the conditions and heard the change in forecast.

 

Those few little ol' fish weren't worth risking your or your passengers life for...but that's just me.

[Headhunter]

Well Emil, I'm glad you made it back ok... but, and I gotta say this, what in the world are you doing taking a 3 year old out on lake Erie in a sub 25ft boat, with an inexperienced 2nd mate. I would have thought that last year's adventure would have taught you something.

I don't care how good your boat is, unless it's at least 25 feet, there's no way in hell I would take my 3 year old out there.

It's one thing to take the risk for yourself, you can make choices, but a 3 year old doesn't have that luxery. Fishing any of the Great Lakes is a risk, sometimes small, some times big, but I just can't get my head around why after what you went through last year, you would do it again!

Blaming the weather people for your lack of interpretation of the conditions may make you feel better, but I can tell you that there have been many times where I have driven to a lake, only to find conditions that were not callled for, but not safe to fish.

Your job as the "captain" of your boat is first and foremost, the safety of your passengers. At the first sign of trouble, lines in, make our way back.

Sorry if this doesn't sit well with you Emil or any of the other members, but I just can't sit here and have you bad mouth the weather folks, when it's actually YOUR CALL to gauge the conditions you are taking people out in.

HH

[icefisherman]

Hi Joe,

 

this is what is so good about this forum. It stimulates discussion by all and I love it.

I am afraid you may have misunderstood my original point....

I would fully agree with you IF the weather man called for bad weather/high winds/waves and I took my passengers out. Then it would have been fully my fault.

 

BUT...and it is a HUGE BUT Joe, They(all of them and I always check them all before leaving many times) called for winds 4-5 TIMES LESS then what we encountered shortly AFTER we got to the spot (20+ km from shore).

 

NOW....it was my responsibility to make the call....should we stay there in 20 knots winds and hope they will decrease (as per forecast) or should we start heading back immediately in those same winds...

 

My logic was this:

 

We were already that far from shore...winds likely will not get worse then 20 knots based on the sky and what we kept hearing on the radio...so I've decided instead of heading back right away and battling those waves to stay tight and fish until waves decrease....they did decrease somewhat in few hours...still way more than original forecast but somewhat less than 6-7 feet we started with.

 

So it was a judgment call and this is how I made it...I thought and still think under the actual condition, distance from shore, my experience and boat quality (mind you much better than my old boat last year) it is better to stay and wait for better winds before heading back on such long ride.

 

BUT.......this is just to answer your comments about my judgment...this is NOT the original point I tried to make.

The original point was how SUPER WRONG TIME AFTER TIME AFTER TIME are the weathermen ALL THE TIME!!!

 

They MUST be held responsible somehow as millions of people make decisions and rely on their forecast just to find out themselves in situations MUCH worse than originally called for.

 

Maybe we should start a new post...but this is what I was trying to do - to provoke people’s opinions ON THE WEATHERMEN AND THEIR PERMANENTLY WRONG FORECASTS.

 

People (all people not just me) put their lives on line all the time by trusting forecast that are WRONG 80+% of the time...and I know if from experience.

 

It is NOT my fault that I've been checking forecast for 24 hours before leaving and up to 2 min before leaving my house and forecast was always calling for NICE CALM day...based on that forecast I took my passengers on what was predicted to be NICE CALM DAY...

I didn't take them few days earlier when weathermen called for BAD WINDY DAY...I took them when conditions for Erie were predicted to be NEAR PERFECT for taking inexperienced passangers.

 

So to conclude Joe,

No I refuse accepting any blame for basing my decision on the officially published forecast on so many web sites. I though their sole purpose is to help people make right decisions based on the TRUE information ahead of time. And sorry but we all work...and while working NOONE is allowed to make CONTINUOSLY ALL THE TIME...such HUGE mistakes by 400-500% ALL THE TIME and get away wwith it ALL THE TIME while ENDANGARING THE LIVES OF OTHERS.

 

Sorry but this is how I read the purpose of the weather service.

To provide me with the tools so I can make the right decision.

When they provide me with the WRONG tools ALL THE TIME it is my right to ask them to take full responsibility.

And mind you........some of those guys are sponsored/paid for by tax dollars.

As EVERYONE else is responsible for their work performance weathermen are NOT IMUNE from responsibility themselves!!!

 

Anyhow...just wanted to make the differentiation between the intent of my original post and what you thought was my responsibility.

Again appreciate all comments on the subject as it is one I am very interested in and one that affects me all the time.

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

Edited August 26, 2008 by icefisherman

[BillM]

So people who are trying to predict (key word here) should be fired or held responsible in some other manor if they guess wrong?

 

It's an educated guess at best...

 

You endangered your own life by seeing the weather turning bad and making the choice to stay out, how you can put blame on anyone else is unbelievable.

[fishnsled]

It was time to turn around and come back in when you got out and realized the conditions and heard the change in forecast.

 

Those few little ol' fish weren't worth risking your or your passengers life for...but that's just me.

 

I agree with you GCD. There is not a fish out there that I'd put my life at risk for. I've traveled to a lake and seen that the conditions were bad and picked another lake to suit the conditions. There is always another choice/side of a lake to go to. Not so easy on the Great Lakes (or Simcoe) when you want to get out to the middle of it. In this case I'd stay on shore or as soon as I heard that the winds were going to 20 knots the lines would have been in and I'd be on my way back in. I consider myself a die hard fisherman and will fish in just about any conditions, some here will attest to this, sometimes you have to know when to just walk away.

 

I am VERY HAPPY to see that everyone is safe and sound.

 

PS - Having read your reply to Joe I just wanted to add this. Yes the weather forecast was way off from the initial reports you had but the weather offices will tell you it can change at any given time. I think we've all seen it happen. Not being on the water and seeing what you were facing I really can't say that what you did was right or wrong. I believe that I would have headed to shore with the words of 20 knot winds in a heartbeat.

 

Are weather forecasts ever right? More wrong then right I'd say. Can we blame them for the risks we take(and possible outcomes) in the event of a change in the weather??? I think not.

[canadadude]

Live and learn my friend, and perhaps change your weather station the one I'm on is right 80% of the time and it was calling for North winds yesturday 20+km/h. Even with that said if I encounter 6'-7' waves there is noway in heck I'm going to continue my adventure and bringing a 3 yr old out in that crap is beyond me! I really think you should give your head a shake and instead of worrying about the weatherman learn to respect the Great Lakes alittle more. It sounds to me like your a statistic waiting to happen and unfortunatly your indangering the lives of others and whats more sad is putting a young person in harms way. You better learn to use common sense when making your decisions you are the one endangering lives being out there!

[Headhunter]

Emil, if your driving on the 401 and the overhead sign says "traffic is moving well for the next three interchanges" and you see a ton of brake lights in front of you, would you brake? Well yah, you would, but would you then blame the MTO for posting un-acua\rate info?

The weather is an in-exact science, the best weather indicator is to stick your head outside and MAKE A JUDGEMENT CALL!

I'm finding your comments about the weather service somewhat dis-heartening as it seems to me that you have not learned your lesson yet, after two tough outings.

I truly hope that you step back and take an OBJECTIVE view of what your doing and saying. I'm not sure that the weather folks would be lining up to tell your wife that they made a mistake and that's why her husband and son weren't coming home!

I can't tell you how many posts I've read here that clearly stated that the weather man got it wrong... or how many folks said they didn't go fishin because of the weather predictions. Most of the responses to those posts have been, well I don't listen to the weather man, I went anyway and we caught this....

I understand those folks, they are typically fishing a smaller lake of river. But when venturing out on the Great Lakes, weather reports are meerly a suggestion, YOU have to make the judgement call.

If I may Emil, may I suggest you leave your little one at home until you learn better how to gauge your surroundings...

YOu should have gotten the heck out of there right away. I can't see any other argument holding water in this one!

HH

 

EDIT: being paid public finds does'nt mean that those folks can't make a mistake, or things can't change...if everyone here posted about what they felt was not getting value for their government dollars, we'd have a completely different board!

Edited August 26, 2008 by Headhunter

[Toronto_Angler]

You're blaming people for not being able to predict the future properly?! Wow

[Guest Johnny Bass]

I'd have to agree with GCD and HH. The Weather stations can only predict weather. Once you saw with your own eyes, that the weather was getting bad, the responsibility of the passengers is in your hands.

 

The smart thing to do would have been to get in quick. Especially if there are young ones involved. If you can predict the weather by looking at the skies. Why do you need a weather man anyways? If the waves got worse, you could have put your crew in danger.

 

Anyways, just glad everyone made it back safe and sound.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Johnny Bass

[icefisherman]

Emil, if your driving on the 401 and the overhead sign says "traffic is moving well for the next three interchanges" and you see a ton of brake lights in front of you, would you brake? Well yah, you would, but would you then blame the MTO for posting un-acua\rate info?

The weather is an in-exact science, the best weather indicator is to stick your head outside and MAKE A JUDGEMENT CALL!

 

 

Joe, instead of another lengthy reply I'd just say we obviously don't agree with you on people/services being responsible for their actions.

 

On the stock market people make predictions every day...rarely they are wrong by 400%...and when they are wrong even by few % someone ALWAYS is responsible and pays dearly.

So your Hwy example is out of place here.

 

Again I make judgement call all the time, but want to make them based on true initial data not a wrong one.

 

As far as my son ....I can assure you he'll be coming with me every time I think is safe. And if things change I (and noone else quarterbacking me) will make the decision of what is the safest for him and me.

 

Enough said...I guess I am a bit diasppointed that you didn't (or didn't want to) understand my initial point, but hey life goes on;-)

I've got my conclusion of the whole situation and will NOT rely on weather forecast ever!

If you, I or anyone else makes such darastic mistakes ALL THE TIME in their job I guarantee you, we will not last in your job more then 5 min.

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

[Vanselena]

Looks like you dodged another bullet, glad you made it home safe!

 

Got this from channel 68 fishing forum.

 

Please tell which government agency told you light north winds, I'd like to know so we can avoid that site.

 

Passed this comment to Environment Canada and got the following response:

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

We get our fair share of complaints about marine forecasts for the Great Lakes, but in this case, as you can see below, our forecast was "bang on". I don't know where the fisherman checked for his 3:00 AM forecast, but is was not an Environment Canada forecast.

 

MARINE FORECASTS FOR THE GREAT LAKES AND THE ONTARIO PORTION OF THE

ST. LAWRENCE RIVER ISSUED BY ENVIRONMENT CANADA AT 3:00 A.M. EDT

MONDAY 25 AUGUST 2008 FOR TODAY TONIGHT AND TUESDAY.

 

WESTERN LAKE ERIE.

WIND NORTHEAST 15 TO 20 KNOTS VEERING TO EAST 15 TO 20 OVERNIGHT.

 

As you can see, the forecast was for winds of 15 to 20 knots, not 4 to 7 knots. Actually, we never say 4 to 7 knots in our forecasts, when winds are expected to be less than 10 knots, we just say "light winds".

 

So, in this case, we're not to blame.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

 

 

Big Wally

Edited August 26, 2008 by Vanselena

[icefisherman]

Got this from channel 68 fishing forum.

 

Please tell which government agency told you light north winds, I'd like to know so we can avoid that site.

 

 

And here is my reply to Bill again on the "other forum you are quoting"...very strange you didn't see it there while copy/pasting

 

Bill thank you for passing my comments and posting the response.

I've started checking the weather forecast about 24 hours ahead of my trip and up to 5 min before leaving the house at 3am:

 

Here is who said what at that time. Sorry I can not copy/paste and post their predictions at the time:

 

www.sailflow.com

said 4-5 knots North wind in the morning going to 7-8 knots in the afternoon

 

www.theweathernetwork.com

said 15km North wind but changed it to 20km North wind all day

 

www.accuweather.com

said 4-5km North wind early in the day going to 17km North in the afternoon

 

www.windguru.cz

said 4 knots in the morning to 7-8 knots in the afternoon from the North

 

Again all sites I've checked said wind will be way less than 20 Knots.

First time I've heard "20 knots" was after we got to the spot, 15 miles from shore and turned on the VHF. If I knew of winds of 20 knots before leaving I would have neve been anywhere close to the water that day.

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman'

Edited August 26, 2008 by icefisherman

[Vanselena]

I see it now. Sorry I must not have scrolled down far enough

[limeyangler]

hey Icefisherman, glad you mae it back safely.

 

I was in Erieau this july/august but left my 16.5' luminium boat at home because of the wind/conditions on the big lakes. I was still surprisec to see tiny 12' boats out in 3'swells....craaaaaaayzeee....lol. Anyway...i hear ya about the weather forecasts.....i hate how inacurate they can be...and how it will be saying a certain thing for three days up until the morning of the day in question then change everything so like you said its 400% WRONG!!!!!

[PERCHER]

I never go by the weather man .I just try and use my best judgement its not always right either.

The Great lakes can be very dangerous at times with or without notice.

I am just glad you and your crew are all safe and sound.

Dan

[Handlebarz]

I to am sick of the wrong things the weather man sais heck alot of the time they call for rain and thunder storms but we dont get them.

 

on the other hand I would never blame them for me staying of to catch a couple fish with my son on board and yes he is 3 1/2 years old he is way to busy in the boat just ask anyone who has fished with me since he was 2 and you will know that there is no way in hell I would stay out there even LSC gets to blow up vry fast I head in right away yes we have been caught buy the weather but still head in right away there is no fish worth my son,daughter,wife or my life and also not that of a fishing buddy sorry that is just my thought I could not sit out on the water and hope that by the afternoon it will lay down when you are already out there at 6 am and have heard that the winds have come up.

 

Sorry I did not want to keep this on a track you cant see but maybe you need some more people to tell you what we would do? I hope you re think this next time out and I am sorry but I dont remember what happened last year. JMO

[johnnyb]

I've got my conclusion of the whole situation and will NOT rely on weather forecast ever!

 

I think that's fantastic news!! Now you will have nobody to blame should things go awry again The other good thing is that you and your passengers returned safe and sound...with a few fish to boot.

[Zubris21]

As I mentioned before I'm glad you and your crew made it home safely.

 

I do however tend to agree with most others who say the weather forecast is not to blame. As has been said weather prediction is an inexact science. Weather personnel, or I suppose I should say meteorologists, since they are scientists, make the best predictions based on recently past events, and general weather trends. Generally they are pretty accurate in relatively homogeneous areas, that is, if there are no mountains or large water bodies around. However, once you throw either of these landmarks in, weather gets very tricky to predict at the best of time. Large inland bodies of water (of which the great lakes are the biggest) make weather very unpredictable, and a forecast for these areas should always be taken with a grain of salt.

 

I hope that you don't choose to ignore forecasts for your future outings, because they are a valuable source of information, and truly can be a lifesaver out on the water. May I suggest that you read up on, cold fronts/warm fronts, hi/low pressure systems, trade winds, humidity, and the like so you can use your knowledge coupled with the weather maps/forecasts to make even more educated decisions in the future.

 

Im not trying to harp on you for a bad decisions, I think we all just want to see everyone taking precautions in these types of situations.

[Jen]

I watch Steve, Fishmaster, leave the dock everyday to head out on his charters, I have checked the weather , watched the flags sit flat against the poles and then my phone rings... he has hit the lake and there are 3 foot waves and climbing....

 

The weather man can say whatever he wants, once you get to the end of the river and you pass those piers you need to make a call.

 

Fishmasters boat is a 28ft with an 11 foot beam and let me tell you it handles the weather out there, but often Steve watches guys follow him out and wonders where their heads are at.

 

We lost a friend just recently, a very experienced boater to Lake Erie and all that might come at you. Not to mention the multiple distress signals that have come over the VHF reporting boats capsized and people in the water. It may be summer but it is cold out there and one day of fishing isn't worth a lifetime of your family being left behind.

 

Wear your lifejackets, make wise choices from what you see not what you hear...

 

I have come to dislike Erie, it is way to unpredictable. With the waves, wind and poor VHF and cell phone receptions it is a lake to be respected.

 

Thanks for posting Joe, I hear exactly where you are coming from... follow you gut... always!

 

Jen