Canada Puts Brakes on Electric Vehicles (NF)

[Rich]

Source:

 

http://ca.news.yahoo.com

 

MONTREAL (AFP) - Despite increasing local demand for zero-emissions cars and trucks and robust exports of electric vehicles, Canada will not allow them on its roads, lament manufacturers.

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"It's a daily embarrassment," said Ian Clifford, president of Zenn Motor Company, which builds "zero emissions no noise" vehicles in Canada for export primarily to the United States.

 

"Even my employees can't drive to work in a Zenn. It's absurd," he said of federal and provincial rules that forbid electric cars from being driven on most Canadian roads.

 

Clifford's frustration is aggravated by the view that Canadians are increasingly concerned about the environment and are said to be eager to drive electric vehicles in this warming climate.

 

"We build the car in St. Jerome (Quebec) and ship them all south of the border," where 44 states allow them, and some 45,000 electric cars are in use today, he said.

 

But Transport Canada says the vehicles made of lightweight metals and plastics are not safe to drive on Canada's open roads, and would not stand up in a collision.

 

The regulatory agency has so far certified only five models as road-worthy, including the Zenn, and two others that are no longer in production, said Transport Canada spokeswoman Maryse Durette.

 

But most provinces, which have jurisdiction over the vast majority of roads and highways in the country, have balked at giving electric cars the green light, citing Transport Canada's safety concerns.

 

"We found Transport Canada to be very hostile towards low speed electric vehicles," echoed Danny Epp of Dynasty Electric Car in an email to AFP.

 

The Canadian company was recently sold to a Pakistani group which plans to move production to Karachi and continue exporting its vehicles to the United States.

 

According to reports, others allege political bias, noting Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Conservative government's base of support in oil-rich Alberta province.

 

To date, only westernmost British Columbia allows low speed electric vehicles on its urban roads.

 

This week, Quebec in eastern Canada announced a three-year pilot project that would permit starting in July the Zenn and an electric truck called Nemo on its roads with posted speed limits of 50 kilometers (31 miles) per hour.

 

Manufacturers are hoping Quebec's pilot may spur its neighbors to jump on the bandwagon and eventually make it possible to drive an electric car from coast to coast across all 10 of Canada's provinces.

 

"We hope it will lead to changes," said Jacques Rancourt, head of utility truck maker Nemo, based in Montreal. But the road promises to be uphill all the way, he said.

 

Despite their widespread use in the United States and strong sales, there are still technical improvements to be made, say experts, such as boosting the life of batteries used in electric vehicles to allow them to go further.

 

Hydro Quebec subsidiary TM4, which makes electric motors for the Cleanova electric car built by a subsidiary of France's Dassault auto group, is working on a new more powerful lithium-ion battery for use in electric vehicles.

 

According to Quebec's Transport Minister Julie Boulet, TM4 is also seeking to partner on the project with a large automaker, which she refused to name.

 

"The battery is really at the heart of the matter to get electric cars rolling," said Hydro Quebec spokesman Flavie Cote. "We all want exceptional performance from a battery that doesn't take long to recharge, at a low cost."

[lickmyarmpit]

Source:

 

http://ca.news.yahoo.com

 

The Canadian company was recently sold to a Pakistani group which plans to move production to Karachi and continue exporting its vehicles to the United States.

 

According to reports, others allege political bias, noting Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Conservative government's base of support in oil-rich Alberta province.

 

Absoutlely sickening so now a so called "green company" wants to move to a low income country where pollution laws are virtually not existant so that they can ship their cars overseas at a fraction of the cost using huge freighters that burn millions of more gallons of diesel than transport trucks. Our government will also give you a tax credit for buying one of these so called green cars i bet, (ie. Toyota hybrids) while at the same time we are closing down our manufacturing plants that are trying to develop the same kind of technology here. What a back-asswards county Canada is?!?!?

[forrest]

Absoutlely sickening so now a so called "green company" wants to move to a low income country where pollution laws are virtually not existant so that they can ship their cars overseas at a fraction of the cost using huge freighters that burn millions of more gallons of diesel than transport trucks. Our government will also give you a tax credit for buying one of these so called green cars i bet, (ie. Toyota hybrids) while at the same time we are closing down our manufacturing plants that are trying to develop the same kind of technology here. What a back-asswards county Canada is?!?!?

 

The reason the company is moving to Pakinstan:

"The Canadian company was recently sold to a Pakistani group which plans to move production to Karachi and continue exporting its vehicles to the United States."

 

I think I would want to help my country men too.....besides I bet the Pakistani government will not give so much push back to having the cars on the road.

 

Our government will also give you a tax credit for buying one of these so called green cars i bet,

Stop guessing......it is most likely wise of the government to promote cars that use less gas. Please note, I said less gas because car and truck engines have actually become more fuel efficient but manufacturers (most noteably N.A. manufacturers) have chose to wastefully spend those gains in efficiency on increased engine power: faster acceleration, heavier vehicles like SUVs

 

What a back-asswards county Canada is?!?!?

 

I partially agree with you there....what percentage of people with those big a** SUVs actually need that type of vehicle?

Edited June 22, 2008 by forrest

[dylandddd]

I get tired of hearing about "zero emissions vehicles".

 

 

1. Much of the pollution a car will produce in its lifetime is actually during production, before it ever moves an inch.

2. The electricity you get for the electric vehicle is still mostly produced through environmentally unfriendly means, even if its better than gas/diesel internal combustion.

 

So yes it might be better in the short term, but in the long term the effects of all the necessary batteries might in fact make it worse.

[danbouck]

I partially agree with you there....what percentage of people with those big a** SUVs actually need that type of vehicle?

 

I would say a lot and even if they don't it is their choice what they drive in the end. How many people need a sports car or a muscle car? Most people that don't NEED their SUVs are getting rid of them already.

[Fish Farmer]

The world runs on Oil. The oil mungers don't want electric or Hydrogen cars. You know how much money they'll lose. They could've had those vehicles years ago. They don't care about our future. Life is short, live today, to hell with tomorrow.

[Mike the Pike]

It may have to do with the fact that some of these vehicles are probabbly not safe to drive.

 

Yes Paul they may not hold up that well in an accident but one thing is for sure they have to be safer than driving a scooter,motorcycle or bicycle

 

Our government has to be the slowest moving in the western world

 

Time will tell but you can be sure public pressure will put these vehicles on the road.

 

[lickmyarmpit]

I would say a lot and even if they don't it is their choice what they drive in the end. How many people need a sports car or a muscle car? Most people that don't NEED their SUVs are getting rid of them already.

 

Exactly I would love to see a fuel efficent pick up truck on the market would probably sell like crazy too. Some people need trucks and suv's. Try pulling the boat down to the lake in a smart car.

 

 

So yes it might be better in the short term, but in the long term the effects of all the necessary batteries might in fact make it worse

 

Think of all the problems happening around landfills with batteries being thrown in the trash all the nasty chemicals seeping into the groundwater.(mercury, iodine,lead to name a few) And thats from batteries the size of a finger, what about trying to dispose batteries the size of a man?

[Mike the Pike]

Exactly I would love to see a fuel efficent pick up truck on the market would probably sell like crazy too. Some people need trucks and suv's. Try pulling the boat down to the lake in a smart car.

Think of all the problems happening around landfills with batteries being thrown in the trash all the nasty chemicals seeping into the groundwater.(mercury, iodine,lead to name a few) And thats from batteries the size of a finger, what about trying to dispose batteries the size of a man?

 

I am not sure of the process but car batteries have been recycled for years in scrap yards its the acid in them that worries me.

 

I am sure that if electric cars caught on there would be a way to recycle most of the batteries.

 

Bottom line is gas powered vehicles will do much more damage to the enviroment than the electric cars also the way Alberta produces oil

is demanding on the enviroment they need to burn natural gas and they use enormous amounts of water to produce the oil extracted from the tar sands.

 

And yes its high time the truck companies produce more fuel saving trucks.

 

I can't give up my minivan it pulls my boat and my 2600lb tent trailer.

 

MTP

[forrest]

I would say a lot and even if they don't it is their choice what they drive in the end. How many people need a sports car or a muscle car? Most people that don't NEED their SUVs are getting rid of them already.

 

A lot of people actually need their SUVs?

If you are including those that need them for a fashion statement then I would agree with you. Excluding fashion the people who agree with will be few and far between.......that is unless you hang around people who tow boats all time.

 

And where are the people who don't need their SUVs getting rid of them to?.....Are they sending them to 3rd world nations that are SUV poor or to others that do not need SUVs?

 

 

 

Electric cars will not fit everywhere but some could certainly make a use for them......if someone in govt would get off their butt and figure out what to do with the batteries in 10 years......most pollution does NOT take place during manufacturing (who said it didi?) all in all there is less material and pollution with an electric car.

 

 

forrest

[JohnF]

I am not sure of the process but car batteries have been recycled for years in scrap yards its the acid in them that worries me.

 

I am sure that if electric cars caught on there would be a way to recycle most of the batteries.

 

Bottom line is gas powered vehicles will do much more damage to the enviroment than the electric cars also the way Alberta produces oil

is demanding on the enviroment they need to burn natural gas and they use enormous amounts of water to produce the oil extracted from the tar sands.

 

And yes its high time the truck companies produce more fuel saving trucks.

 

I can't give up my minivan it pulls my boat and my 2600lb tent trailer.

 

MTP

 

Coupla thoughts. I may be wrong, often am.

 

1: Electric energy is a great way to power transportation, provided the method of creating the electricity in the first place is more efficient than burning natural fuels (oil & coal). Here's a link to one example although I understand there've been some improvements there.

http://www.vauxhallsociety.org.uk/BatterseaPowerStation.html

No wonder it was known as foggy London town.

2: Size is definitely a factor for some of us. I'm 6' 225# and I hate being squashed into a car, especially when I'm wearing a suit and topcoat for work, or just a heavy parka and sweater during the winter. Electric cars so far are pretty small for me. A few of the larger hybrids are okay but I can't reconcile their extra cost to the economic and environmental advantages. Seems to me that with them I'm just using fossil fuel to charge the battery to run on electricity to save fossil fuel - illogical because as we know, when it comes to producing energy you don't get something for nothing. I'd have to see some pretty solid numbers proving that there is in fact any saving to me or the world.

3: I like my Honda Pilot. It makes a difference on those highway commutes I have for 2 weeks out of every month in the fall, winter and spring. It also offers decent ground clearance for carrying me to some of those off the main road fishing spots and even affords me room to sleep for those few nights each summer when I head up to the Ottawa area to fish some of the back lakes with my backwoods buddy.

4: Some of the suv's are getting much better on fuel. The new Honda Pilot has a setback cylinder firing system (dunno the formal name for it).

5: When we get rid of Wendy's CTS next spring we'll probably go with something more economical, not that it's all that bad on gas. The problem is getting something that has much better economy and still affords me enough space to be comfortable when I have to use it. She wants a 4 door style because she likes to be the driver whenever she and friends or family go somewhere shopping etc. I have a hunch that for the few miles she actually puts on in a year it won't make that much difference to anything involving social responsibility.

 

JF

[Terry]

A lot of people actually need their SUVs?

 

If you are including those that need them for a fashion statement then I would agree with you. Excluding fashion the people who agree with will be few and far between.......that is unless you hang around people who tow boats all time.

problem is I can to afford an extra vehicle so I don't have to drive my truck when I am not towing my boat,, I guess I don't live in the perfect world

[JohnF]

Oh, and what about the Hummers!!

How many can justify driving one of those military issue vehicles?

 

Gov. Ahnald can.

 

JF

[nofish4me]

Well, I'm with "Clamp-It" on this one.

Make the thing meet safety standards and there would be no complaints, as it could then be sold in Canada!

If it met our standards, there would be no more whinning (which alot like to do).

[danbouck]

problem is I can to afford an extra vehicle so I don't have to drive my truck when I am not towing my boat,, I guess I don't live in the perfect world

 

Exactly!

 

If they make an electric car to haul around my 2 kids, two large dogs, boat, car trailer and what ever else I decide to take with me I would happily trade my suburban for it.

 

I don't have the $$$ to have another vehicle in the driveway either.

 

And if anybody wants to have a SUV or a hummer just because they enjoy them or for style reasons then they have every right to drive them.

[forrest]

And if anybody wants to have a SUV or a hummer just because they enjoy them or for style reasons then they have every right to drive them.

 

Correct....just like people have the right to do a lot of things.....doesn't mean they should though.

For instance I have the right to haul out a full limit of fish everyday from sensitive fishing areas....doesn't mean I should.

 

The only reasons SUVs, hummers etc are on the road is due to loop hole in americain law, otherwise due to their horrid gas mileage they would never have made it to the common market (A law that removed mileage restrictions from off-road vehilcles). So maybe, in the states the right to drive such vehicles was granted by accident and if things were done as intended people would not have the right.

 

An Bouck I am not saying your irresponsible, your not driving around for a fashion statement....there are not too many people with kids, dogs, and a whole ton of other stuff (including a trailer) that they haul around; there is no argument being targeted at you. I am thinking of those fashion statement people.....in all the years those hummers have been on hte public streets I have never seen one tow anything more than 4 people who were nicely dressed.

 

I don't have the $$$ to have another vehicle in the driveway either.

 

Do you know how much of your car buying dollars go to support golden handshake layoff benifits to car workers? Benifits like full-time pay for life if they continue to go to school or volunteer time.....I do not know what they get here up in Oshawa, they might get squat, but, each car costs a few grand extra because of these benefits.

 

N.A. manufacturers built this market and now some people are crying about people buying foreign cars that use less fuel costing N.A. jobs...........go squawk to the people that supported that crummy fuel burning business plan. Don't think the union's can't take some blame either.....all they cared about was short term gains....everyone has the right to short-sightedness though.

 

Alternative cars are looking at the long run...the canadian government is hostile to them, period.....if the plants then go elsewhere I guess more people will buy foreign...nobodies fault but our own.

[lunkerbasshunter]

why would our government let these cars on the road? they are heavily invested in the gasoline powered cars, what ever politician invests in green cars is going ot be ripped a new one in the tradioninal canadian auto industry.

 

I like the idea of green cars but lets not forget that our biggest trade industry is gasoline powered cars which canada has dumped billions of dollars into.

 

Im all for the green cars being made in southwestern ontario where there are thousand out of work every year! There are lots of big empty manufacturing facilities in ontario. Just think it will kill our relationship with traditonal auto manufactures.

 

Cheers!

[lunkerbasshunter]

why would our government let these cars on the road? they are heavily invested in the gasoline powered cars, what ever politician invests in green cars is going ot be ripped a new one in the tradioninal canadian auto industry.

 

I like the idea of green cars but lets not forget that our biggest trade industry is gasoline powered cars which canada has dumped billions of dollars into.

 

Im all for the green cars being made in southwestern ontario where there are thousand out of work every year! There are lots of big empty manufacturing facilities in ontario. Just think it will kill our relationship with traditonal auto manufactures.

 

Cheers!

[MoriaRiverMan]

Oh, and what about the Hummers!!

How many can justify driving one of those military issue vehicles?

 

I can

 

Two kids..........boat..........170lbs mastiff...............and offroad club!

 

Works great for my needs!

Edited June 22, 2008 by MoiraRiverMan

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Do you know what is responsible for the Canadian soaring loonie?High gas prices....Oil is the number one money making thing in the entire world. (I think the way they rate currency is ridiculous to begin with).

 

 

We are talking HUGE profit margins. Why would the Canadian government that is backed by the oil industry, allow electric cars and ruin their goose that lays the golden eggs?

 

They want profits not progress......

 

It would be ideal for city travel and help out air quality down town. Whether Electricity, or Ethanol or Hydrogen is the way to go, time will only tell. What we do know for sure is that gasoline prices are too high and our climate will not be able to sustain a growing population of gasoline run cars. Once China and India get their auto industry in high gear, it will not be pretty for the climate....

[barrystrs]

I look forward to seeing electric vehicles on the road, but not the ones available today. I believe the maximum speed for the Zenn is 40 kph. If you have ever used an electric car, you would realize how much they slow down going up a grade. I would be surprised if it went 25kph up even a moderate grade. I wonder if they have been tested when the batteries are cold? Our traffic jams are bad enough now, and the hundreds of cars idling behind one of these fancy golf carts is going to waste a lot more fuel than it is going to save. Never mind the lives lost due to accidents and road rage. In my opinion any car on the road must be able to go with the flow of traffic.

PS. I use electic carts at work and they are terrific.

[Rich]

I know I posted the article, but I can't say whether I support electric cars or not. I like the idea of giving the gas companies some competition in hopes of lowering gas prices, however our country is already having electricity production problems. Electric cars would only worsen that and likely raise hydro prices. It seems kinda lose/lose to me either way.

 

The worst part is, a viable solution has probably been discovered and patented - the powers that be are just keeping it quiet.

[POLLIWOGG]

Keep your eye out for the documentary "who killed the electric car".

 

When California legislated 0 emission cars the manufacturers made some very drivable electric cars and leased them, then fought the legislation till they killed it and rounded up the electric cars and crushed them.

 

I would rather see them build a better car than put a car on the road that doesn't rate just because the Americans do, then the Americans get a better car too.

[Guest Johnny Bass]

We are having electricity production problems? Doubt it. They just made it seem that way so the politicians can privatize it and pocket some money. I think they privatized it anyways, but under the table.

 

Not long ago, we were powering a large part of Ontario and a large part of the USA with power generated from Niagara falls if I am not mistaken. Now I'm not sure if it is working full capacity, but a problem with the grid in Ohio, caused a black out here for several days? Something smells fishy.....

 

Pollywog. The first cars invented by Ford ran on electricity. The oil tycoons convinced Ford to use gasoline since it was really cheap at the time and that it would be more efficient. Well it ain't cheap anymore and it is a major polluter.

 

There are many rumours of cars made that don't run on gasoline but I am sure that they are all bought out by the oil tycoons.....I hear of all kinds of proto types every day, that run on everything from solar power, to hydrogen.

 

Profits have always gotten in the way of progress.....

[MoriaRiverMan]

Oil companies buying inventions to replace gas powered cars.......

 

I say no way........ Huge rumor and myth

 

Why would someone bright enough to invent a better way to fuel the world sell it to the oil companies?

 

THEY WOULDNT

 

They would market and sell there own idea and become the next Bill Gates!!!

 

Totally non-sense thinking oil companies buy up idea's and hold them. Thats media for ya making up crap to get viewers to watch and believe.

 

It falls into the same myth as theres a cure for cancer and aids but the pharmaceutical companies buy them up to maintain there profits.

 

NO WAY.

 

That would be like the messenger boy paying off alexander bell so he could keep his job!

 

Bottom line is.......... As of today there is not a cut in stone better alternative to oil.

 

Plain and Simple