Smart Meters...(NF)

[Gerritt]

Does anyone here have a smart meter installed? I got a paper in the mail saying I would have one in the next 30 days... It lists a whack load of pricing.. and if things are used during Peak hours there is a definite increase in the cost per KwH.. I realize we all need to conserve.. but will conservation lead to higher prices due to less demand? someone needs to make money right? I dont see what is wrong with the currant system to be honest other then they have to pay employees to read the meters.. The new smart meters eliminate this need.. It measure electricity use on an hour by hour basis and sends it via wireless to your utility.. You have a Peak, Mid-Peak and Off-Peak... given the time of year the rates change..

 

have your bills increased? or are you more conscious on when you cook your meal, have your shower or heaven forsake heat your home?

 

To add to this... when will we stop paying the Debt retirement charge? I assume when the debt is paid off... but how much is it really?.. considering the vast amounts of $$ being directed to this I assume it has to be paid off at sometime?? and WHO is getting this money?

 

So if anyone has these so called smart meters could you please share your experiences?

 

TIA!

 

G

[HTHM]

I do not have one, but I'm sure if one was hooked up to me it would have a negative reading.

The debt they are talking about is, I believe, related to the reactor repairs that are ongoing. I may be wrong about that.

I hope that where I am located they will hold off on installing one for quite some time.

[Gerritt]

HomeTown... I am from MH and lots of people already have them...including my PIL....

 

I grew up on 6 and Whitechurch.. where abouts are you?

 

G

[HTHM]

In the armpit of the airport, Margarine and Glancaster

[Gerritt]

In the armpit of the airport, Margarine and Glancaster

 

 

Ohhhh goodie!! I grew up Kiddie Corner from the Runway6 (Now Sunnyside up I believe)

 

nice to see a fellow Hoper on board.

 

Gerritt.

[Guest gbfisher]

Have you ever heard of a 'Make work project'?

 

Hey I have a great idea. It might help out even. How about............

 

I only see your hydro bill going up.....

 

I have one installed. The only time you can save money is if you do laundry at night. Don't need a new meter for that....OH AND...if you turn off your air conditioning through the day. Don't need a new meter for that and there's..........NOPE! Don't need a new meter for that either.

 

You can get your air conditioner and hot water tank hooked up to the new meter and "THEY can shut you down when THEY want....lol.

Yes! You need a new meter for that. Your bill will go up for the next few years to pay for the new meters which you will be forced to use if you want hydro.

The expense with making and installing will run us just a few bucks....

 

Everyone willl have one in the Toronto Area by 2009 I think...

 

Enjoy your new meter!

Edited November 21, 2007 by gbfisher

[John Bacon]

I do not have one, but I'm sure if one was hooked up to me it would have a negative reading.

The debt they are talking about is, I believe, related to the reactor repairs that are ongoing. I may be wrong about that.

I hope that where I am located they will hold off on installing one for quite some time.

 

The dept is because prices were kept artificially low for many years. The repairs to the reactors would have contributed to the dept but were not the sole cause of it. The bottom line is that it was costing more to produce and supply electricity than what it was being sold for.

[ccmtcanada]

Gerritt...generally speaking you are right...less demand higher prices, but in this case there is a key factor that you are forgetting. Supply of electricity.

 

If supply exceeds demand, then prices will go down. Right now, during peak times, we import electricity for a LOT more than we can produce it. If this brings down consumption to the point where it equals demand then it will stabilize prices. If demand can fall and supply is in excess, then prices fall AND we can export that extra stuff and make more profit on it.

 

Is this making sense? Jeez...I think I just used my university education (I have a BA in Economics)....wow...only took 20 years to use something I learned in school....LOL.

[Gerritt]

Gerritt...generally speaking you are right...less demand higher prices, but in this case there is a key factor that you are forgetting. Supply of electricity.

 

If supply exceeds demand, then prices will go down. Right now, during peak times, we import electricity for a LOT more than we can produce it. If this brings down consumption to the point where it equals demand then it will stabilize prices. If demand can fall and supply is in excess, then prices fall AND we can export that extra stuff and make more profit on it.

 

Is this making sense? Jeez...I think I just used my university education (I have a BA in Economics)....wow...only took 20 years to use something I learned in school....LOL.

 

 

Cliff, I understand what you are saying about S&D... but I thought that we are currently exporting our excess power to the US for a certain amount... and then repurchasing it for more then double when we have a peak period... Mind you from what I have read most of this excess comes from QC.. and is Hydro(water) generated not sure if it comes back to the Ontario grid at a higher price because it was not generated her..... does this make sense?

 

I still think Hydro rates are going to sky rocket with the new meters..

 

G.

Edited November 22, 2007 by Gerritt

[Fisherman]

Whether you like it or not, you get the meter and the bill, something about getting the shaft again. Really want to save, I got rid of the electric clothes dryer, gas dryer, gas hot water, forced air gas, I don't live by candles, we average about $55-65 in the summer about 65-75 in the winter for the monthly electric bill, and I'm not on one of the locked in rates either.

[Tomcat]

Gerritt:

 

From http://www.energy.gov.on.ca/index.cfm?fuse...lectricity.faqs

 

What is the Debt Retirement Charge (DRC) and why do I have to pay it?

 

The Debt Retirement Charge (DRC) is intended to help pay down the legacy debt of the former Ontario Hydro. Although the debt was acquired in the past, the facilities that were financed by the debt are still in use and continue to supply electricity to customers today. For this reason, today's customers contribute to paying down the debt through the DRC.

 

How much is the debt and how long must we continue to pay the debt retirement charge (DRC)?

 

In the years prior to restructuring in 1999, Ontario Hydro had borrowed money to build new generation plants and expand transmission and distribution networks. The interest and principal on this debt was to be paid by the revenues earned from the sale of electricity. The total amount of the debt left by the former Ontario Hydro, including other liabilities, was $38.1 billion. Of that total, $17.2 billion was assigned to Ontario Hydro's successor companies - Hydro One and Ontario Power Generation (OPG). The remaining $20.9 billion was defined as 'stranded' debt. This amount was later reduced by $1.5 billion through the transfer of other assets. Consequently, the stranded debt started out at 19.4 billion.

 

According to the OEFC's report for the year ended March 31, 2004, the debt increased to almost $20.6 billion. This increase was largely a result of the almost $1 billion cost of the 4.3 cents per kilowatt hour fixed price for electricity introduced by the previous government.

 

I contacted authorities by email in Jan 07 about the size of the DRC and when it might be finished. Their response included a statement that as of 31 Mar 06, the stranded debt was 19.3 billion. When you consider the amount of dollars paid towards the DRC every year by we consumers since 1999, you’d wonder why the stranded debt doesn’t decrease (you know – the way your mortgage principal decreases with payments).

 

The reason this DRC does not decrease as rapidly as we would expect is that “the powers to be” keep adding to the debt. That’s why the best estimate about an eventual payoff goes something like the following: The DRC will end when the residual stranded debt is paid off, which the OEFC estimates will occur between 2012 and 2020.

Edited November 22, 2007 by Tomcat

[Gerritt]

Thanks Tomcat for that well thought out and written explanation.

 

Gerritt.

[Headhunter]

Hey G, I had one of those meters hooked up to my house when I bought it. I had my air conditioning guy remove it when he replaced my unit this summer. There is no way in H E double hockey sticks that I was going to allow someone else to turn off my a/c when ever they wanted.

It's sitting on the garage floor right now.

Next, they will be locking our car keys in a special box in your house and only letting you drive when the air quality meets their expectations. That'll be the day!

HH

Edited November 22, 2007 by Headhunter

[Bitsmith2k]

Hey G, I had one of those meters hooked up to my house when I bought it. I had my air conditioning guy remove it when he replaced my unit this summer. There is no way in H E double hockey sticks that I was going to allow someone else to turn off my a/c when ever they wanted.

It's sitting on the garage floor right now.

Next, they will be locking our car keys in a special box in your house and only letting you drive when the air quality meets their expectations. That'll be the day!

HH

 

they put mine in a couple weeks ago.. how they heck can they just shut off the AC? wouldnt they have to kill power to the whole house?

and if the time comes that they do kill the power to the house because my AC is running... i'll probably blow a gasket and someone will more than likely get hurt...

[Headhunter]

Sorry guys, I think I may have got this thread wrong. What I had hooked up was a meter and switch that was hooked up to my A/C unit, in-line with it's power source. When demand became high, they could TURN OFF MY A/C unit remotely, until electricity demand dropped.

Now, I didn't pay over 2 grand to have someone else have their hand on my A/C switch!

Hope I didn't confuse anyone other then myself!LOL

HH

[Bitsmith2k]

Sorry guys, I think I may have got this thread wrong. What I had hooked up was a meter and switch that was hooked up to my A/C unit, in-line with it's power source. When demand became high, they could TURN OFF MY A/C unit remotely, until electricity demand dropped.

Now, I didn't pay over 2 grand to have someone else have their hand on my A/C switch!

Hope I didn't confuse anyone other then myself!LOL

HH

 

oooh.. [blood pressure begins to drop]..... thanks for clarifying that.. i can't remember ever actually getting genuinely heated reading a thread... this one did it.. lol

[douG]

I have one on my AC. They gave me 25$ to install it, and I don't think it was ever activated this past summer.

 

If bumping my AC during dinner means we don't need to pay 3x for power, I'm all for it. I really only need the AC to control temp to 23C at night, if it's 25 or 27 around dinner time, that's ok by me.

 

Remember, HydroOne needs to have your AC connected as much as possible. That's how they make money, silly.

[knightfisher]

Can you handle the truth, well here it is.

 

 

Current hydro rates are approx .05 ( cents ) per kWh.

 

With the new smart meters coming into effect by the end

of 2008 there will be a --slight-- price change.

 

Summer May-Oct

7am-11am .071

11am-5pm .09.7

5pm-10pm .07.1

10pm-7am .03.4

 

Winter Nov- Apr

 

7am-11am .09.7

11am-5pm .07.1

5pm-8pm .09.7

8pm-10pm .07.1

10pm-7am .03.4

 

Added to this, the smart meter also reads the demand or surge, which the old meter

can't read. If you noticed your lights go dim for a moment when your washing machine

comes on, that's the demand or surge.

 

And don't forget that's just the usage.

 

Your delivery charge, regulatory charge, and debt retirement charge is at least

110 % of your usage charge. The more juice you use the more the aformentioned will be.

 

So what does all this mean apart from having to eat supper after midnight, and doing

the laundry then also.

 

It means ---at the least--- your hydo bill will almost -double-.

 

It's pretty sad when the powers that be, milk us for the necessities of life

we need to live.

 

Dan

[walleyejigger]

just got hooked up today

 

power went out for a few seconds, then noticed a man who looked alot like santa walking across my law in an orange hydro one jacket