Albert Gore Junior wins Nobel Peace Prize

[holdfast]

Oil now at a record High, Why, states dont need as much so less production price goes up. But when the states or others need more production oil goes up. Shut up about the Global Warning crap so the government ie Kyoto and oil executive have no excuses for raising prices, I shake my head at the insanity of it all. As an example. price went down at the pumps but we have been warned of 1.30 price by March. The hell with the planet I say.

[scuro]

The price of oil is related to demand. Global warming if anything is decreasing demand. It is the increased demand of many global countries, that are now coming online economically at the same time... that is driving up demand. Think China, India, Brazil...etc.

[holdfast]

Wrong O, Because of the fear of Global Warming and The Kyoto Accord or anything similar, oil production facilities IE Canada, are to cut emissions. To cut emissions your oil companies are crying it will cost more to meet those standards. Its not my answer by any stretch, its theirs. IE another excuse to raise prices. Think about it, not only the pumps, but your shingles, heating, tires, plastics, vehicles and on and on goes up. Of course the Economy will also suffer, believe it or not, our economy is so good because of Western Oil and that's due to heavy oil is now economical to pull out of the ground with today's prices. Kyoto will kill the plans for the USA to seek more production from Canada to become less dependendant of OPEC which has a noose around everybody's neck, especially us. Why in the hell do you think the Conservative are against it. I agree 100 percent with them on this issue. Lets be real here, Kyoto is too expensive and that bumbling wimp that runs the Liberals will cost us alot by putting this economy in chaos if he actually goes ahead with it, if elected.

[scuro]

Wrong O, Because of the fear of Global Warming and The Kyoto Accord or anything similar, oil production facilities IE Canada, are to cut emissions.

 

Hey wrongo breath , ...give me one good reliable link that demonstrates that the price of oil almost reached $90 dollars today because of the cost of cutting emissions. There must of been a lot of emission cutting going on over the last year!

Edited October 18, 2007 by scuro

[jughead]

Ok, lets say we buy into Gore's philosophy and adopt change based on mankinds footprint on the earth being a primary cause of global warming. Then when the dust settles however many years down the road we find out that Gore was 100% wrong. What would the results be: We have invested time and money towards less pollution, cleaner environment, less reliance on fossil fuels, fewer emissions resulting in fewer respitory disorders in the general population?

 

Even if he is wrong, which he isn't wholly, although some aspects of what he preaches likely are, there is still no real downside. Sure business makes money on fear mongering, liberal or conservative and usually on both sides of any debate. It will also always be the case that wrong theories are often the first steps down the correct path for addressing real problems. In other words, Global warming is real. If we address it as such and begin to search for the cause by heeding some of the so called "alarmist" theories only to find out they are wrong then the process of finding out what isn't actually causing global warming will help reveal what actually is causing it. At which point, the problem can be dealt with from a more informed place.

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Oil now at a record High, Why, states dont need as much so less production price goes up. But when the states or others need more production oil goes up. Shut up about the Global Warning crap so the government ie Kyoto and oil executive have no excuses for raising prices, I shake my head at the insanity of it all. As an example. price went down at the pumps but we have been warned of 1.30 price by March. The hell with the planet I say.

 

The main reason the prices of oil went up in the first place is the war. They always go up during a war. Oil demand increases to fuel war machines and because of build up of reserves. Oh and of coarse price gauging.

 

The oil prices did not go up because of production this time. They go up when there is bad economic forecast, due to events usually tied with the war, or dangerous weather forecasts that can have an economic impact,ect..

 

Just shows you that the rich are running the show. Not the government......We have to keep paying to maintain the richmans wealth.

 

I cant recall if the prices went up this time due to what is happening in Turkey or Russia. But it has absolutely nothing to do States not needing as much oil.

 

Opec cuts production to bring prices up and increases production to bring prices down. Saudi Arabia has offered many times to increase output but the Americans have refused. Why would they sell more? They reduce output and since the demand is so high, they can sell to the highest bidders.........

Edited October 18, 2007 by Johnny Bass

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Wrong O, Because of the fear of Global Warming and The Kyoto Accord or anything similar, oil production facilities IE Canada, are to cut emissions. To cut emissions your oil companies are crying it will cost more to meet those standards. Its not my answer by any stretch, its theirs. IE another excuse to raise prices. Think about it, not only the pumps, but your shingles, heating, tires, plastics, vehicles and on and on goes up. Of course the Economy will also suffer, believe it or not, our economy is so good because of Western Oil and that's due to heavy oil is now economical to pull out of the ground with today's prices. Kyoto will kill the plans for the USA to seek more production from Canada to become less dependendant of OPEC which has a noose around everybody's neck, especially us. Why in the hell do you think the Conservative are against it. I agree 100 percent with them on this issue. Lets be real here, Kyoto is too expensive and that bumbling wimp that runs the Liberals will cost us alot by putting this economy in chaos if he actually goes ahead with it, if elected.

 

Actually Ethanol and nuclear energy are the way of the future. Oil is on its way out. And who will lose? Not you and I or the earth. The oil companies and all the people they employ. So lets just keep on destroying the planet and poisoning our waters and air so we can keep a few filthy rich people wealthy and a few thousand people employed???Not!

 

When America's economy goes down(and it will), our economy will take a hit(regardless of Kyoto), but since our economy is a resource based economy, we will recover quickly.

 

And America's economy will not go down because of oil but will go down because of coruption.

There are people that have been living extravagant lives off the American tax payers dollars for decades and leaving the tax payer the bill. Now the bills have become too much to pay. What happens when you cant pay your bills in a business? You lose all your assets, and you have no more credit. The only thing keeping America afloat right now is the fact that China keeps buying American dollars, or their dollar would have done a nose dive years ago.

 

The conservatives are against it because big business has them in their pocket and they rich want to keep polluting so they can keep raking the cash in.

[mooseroo]

Here's a video that sums things up nicely...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDsIFspVzfI

[Deano]

"Here's a video that sums things up nicely..."

 

It's pretty one sided, as very narrow minded.

This sounds good for rich nations, but for poor nations, it doesn't work.

 

Here's why:

Say we go ahead with the global warming hype, and the whole world is to follow. Forcing advance forms of electricity (e.g. solar and wind)and fuels, which right now, our own (rich nations) country's will not put in place because the cost is too much, and they are not very reliable) will be forced on third world nations. Places where people would be saved by the millions if they just could have electricity. Now they will have to have the most expensive, less reliable form.

 

To put it in lament terms: Let's say you can all go fishing, but in order to fish, you'll have to have the top of the line boat with top of the line equipment. Otherwise, your not allowed. Or lets deny the rich of there electricity and see how well they make out.

 

The only thing Global warming will do is give some kind of excuse for the rich to ignore the poor. And for millions of more people to perish because of something we all take for granted, Electricity and fuel. It's like giving them a death sentence and then blaming them also.

 

So there is a very big negative to acting.

[Deano]

One more thing to think about:

To rich nations, we think it's a matter of changing our light bulbs from standard to energy efficient ones, but to poor nations it's a matter of having a light bulb or not.

[Guest Johnny Bass]

"Here's a video that sums things up nicely..."

 

It's pretty one sided, as very narrow minded.

This sounds good for rich nations, but for poor nations, it doesn't work.

 

Here's why:

Say we go ahead with the global warming hype, and the whole world is to follow. Forcing advance forms of electricity (e.g. solar and wind)and fuels, which right now, our own (rich nations) country's will not put in place because the cost is too much, and they are not very reliable) will be forced on third world nations. Places where people would be saved by the millions if they just could have electricity. Now they will have to have the most expensive, less reliable form.

 

To put it in lament terms: Let's say you can all go fishing, but in order to fish, you'll have to have the top of the line boat with top of the line equipment. Otherwise, your not allowed. Or lets deny the rich of there electricity and see how well they make out.

 

The only thing Global warming will do is give some kind of excuse for the rich to ignore the poor. And for millions of more people to perish because of something we all take for granted, Electricity and fuel. It's like giving them a death sentence and then blaming them also.

 

So there is a very big negative to acting.

 

I personally wasn't impressed with the way he presented the information. But it makes sense.

 

Is wind power more expensive then oil? Do you know how much houses that wind mill they built down town powers and how much the cost is to maintain? A lot less than oil. I will tell you that much. In the old days, many houses had windmills, and watermills to power their houses and they did not have the money or technology that is around today.

 

How about Solar panel and switching to Ethanol that is enviornmentaly friendly? The increased cost would be to make the switch over, not the actual cost to generate the power. And the rich dont want to dish it out. Plus it wouldn't be as profitable to them

 

As far as reliable electricity? There are new and efficient nuclear power plants that can generate electricity cheaper.

 

You wouldn't happen top be in the fuel business deano, would you?

Edited October 18, 2007 by Johnny Bass

[Headhunter]

Johnny B, I appreciate your interest in this topic and the fact that it seems you have done your research. What does confuse me by your posts is that you obviously believe that big money, ie oil companies, the very rich, are the people responsible for many of the things that you deem to be wrong with the world. So, what I'm confused about is why it seems so difficult for you to believe that big business, oil company's etc... are also the ones driving the whole "Global Warming" phenomenon in an effort to pad their wallets from a different perspective. If you were in an industry that had a finite resource and thus, can see the writing on the wall, wouldn't you make every effort to secure new revenue streams? Scare tactics have been around since the dawn of man, they get people to do things they don't really want to, believing that they are doing it in their own best interest..

It's the same difference, except they are coming at us from a different angle. Again, I do not wish to be dis-respectful of anyones opinion, just trying to understand peoples stances on the topic.

BTW - it's been proven that it takes more energy to make ethanol, then is derived from it! The only reason there's so much talk about it, is because the U.S. could be self sufficient on energy, if they switched to ethanol. Short term fix, long term pain!

HH

[douG]

Ya, HH. The ethanol boom is the stupidest thing anyone has ever done. Well, one of the stupidest things. The only thing that this does is make sure that there are people who will have to choose between fuel and food. Again, the rich folks (us), can now take food from people and use it to make fuel, since we already have food already.

[Cory]

Ya, HH. The ethanol boom is the stupidest thing anyone has ever done. Well, one of the stupidest things. The only thing that this does is make sure that there are people who will have to choose between fuel and food. Again, the rich folks (us), can now take food from people and use it to make fuel, since we already have food already.

 

Save the Poor Mexicans, ride a horse not a car !!!

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Johnny B, I appreciate your interest in this topic and the fact that it seems you have done your research. What does confuse me by your posts is that you obviously believe that big money, ie oil companies, the very rich, are the people responsible for many of the things that you deem to be wrong with the world. So, what I'm confused about is why it seems so difficult for you to believe that big business, oil company's etc... are also the ones driving the whole "Global Warming" phenomenon in an effort to pad their wallets from a different perspective. If you were in an industry that had a finite resource and thus, can see the writing on the wall, wouldn't you make every effort to secure new revenue streams? Scare tactics have been around since the dawn of man, they get people to do things they don't really want to, believing that they are doing it in their own best interest..

It's the same difference, except they are coming at us from a different angle. Again, I do not wish to be dis-respectful of anyones opinion, just trying to understand peoples stances on the topic.

BTW - it's been proven that it takes more energy to make ethanol, then is derived from it! The only reason there's so much talk about it, is because the U.S. could be self sufficient on energy, if they switched to ethanol. Short term fix, long term pain!

HH

 

Who does the majority of the corupting? It isn't the poor....

 

The ones driving the so called Global Warming phenomina are real scientists. The ones trying to discredit it, are the oil companies that make money poluting. I believe the saying goes, follow the money.

 

BUT,If you go back and reread some of my posts you will see that I believe the same thing. They are loosing money one way so they will try to generate it another way, and that is fine with me if the money taken is producing positive results, which I believe it will.

 

If I were an industry addicted to my wealth I would do everything in my power to secure my existing revenue streams and create new streams, and destroy competing markets with what ever means(legal or illegal) I have at my disposal. Thats corporate greed.

 

I agree, fear mongering has been a tool to keep the people in obedience to unreasonable actions. But what then, when the fear is justified?

 

I don't believe that to be a fact. I believe Ethanol is cheaper. Brazil has become a fuel efficient nation thanks to their Ethanol production. And I see no long term pain associated with it.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel

 

The Brazilians have also manufactured an adapter so American cars will accept Ethanol gas. Some other minor changes to fuel pumps and air filters and you are on your way in regards to cars.

[Headhunter]

Hey Johnny, I agree, the folks driving the "Global Warming" topic are scientists, but on who's payroll? I think you need to do some more research into who's paying who for their expertise and keep in mind that there are agendas running in the foreground and background all across this topic. My dis-trust for international comglomerates is very much like yours, however, I believe that they are also the main players in this debate as well.

Divide and conquer lives on!

BTW - my exact point Doug! We grow food for energy, meanwhile the very poor starve as prime farmland is used to grow energy as opposed to food. Ethanol does not provide the energy that fossil fuels do and the only reason they are pursuing it south of the boarder is that G.W. needs to show the public some kind of "solution".

HH

Edited October 18, 2007 by Headhunter

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Hey Johnny, I agree, the folks driving the "Global Warming" topic are scientists, but on who's payroll? I think you need to do some more research into who's paying who for their expertise and keep in mind that there are agendas running in the foreground and background all across this topic. My dis-trust for international comglomerates is very much like yours, however, I believe that they are also the main players in this debate as well.

Divide and conquer lives on!

HH

 

Well most of the ones that are Pro are on the UN's payroll and abroad. The ones that are against are on Exxon Mobile's payroll.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6092001078.html

 

 

I totally agree with the divide and conquer bit. The super rich always win because they are usually playing both sides so either way they come on top. So they always know each sides next move and can plan theirs.....

 

Just look at some of the ridiculous notions being put out by the pro global warming people. It decreases credibility when you hear some of these things. I wouldn't be suprised if they are on

the oil tycoons pay role and put there to discredit the pro global warming people.

 

Though when all is said and done, I believe global warming to be real.

 

We have seen some bad storms, I have watched videos of the arctic and the rate of thaw, it is evident that the sea levels are rising, due to the abnormal floods we have been having world wide, the early blooms in Canada, Europe and Russia,ect..

 

The question really is, not IF it is happening but WHO is causing it.

 

Some claim it is a natural phenomina, others claim it is humans.

 

What I do know is Co2 polutants caused by us, are way more damaging and heat up alot faster that natural Co2 emissions. These polutants do harm to our enviornment in a number of ways, regardless of global warming and should be dealt with.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Johnny Bass

[irishfield]

What I do know is Co2 polutants caused by us, are way more damaging and heat up alot faster that natural Co2 emissions. These polutants do harm to our enviornment in a number of ways, regardless of global warming and should be dealt with.

 

That's right Johnny...so hurry up and buy that new truck and higher HP boat ! LOL

[Guest Johnny Bass]

That's right Johnny...so hurry up and buy that new truck and higher HP boat ! LOL

 

The 4 stroke which I want to buy is more enviornmentally friendly and I will be a newer model truck which will polute less, so yes I am doing my part. .

 

Hopefully they will come in Ethanol powered soon.

[Tybo]

Don't forget the south Americans are burning 10s of thousands Hectares of

RAIN forest each month.To reclaim land to plant grain for Ethanol.

[holdfast]

Here's a video that sums things up nicely...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDsIFspVzfI

 

I have a problem with that Nerd in the Video in Reference to his nice little chart. I dont see why that there would not be Global Depression under the True in his Column A that he is trying to sell. Again if it ends up being True, and you still do something there is still the Cost, In his words Global Depression. Now there is an example of a professional Lecturer teaching HIS Theory. I think I will head down to the GATHERING (rainbow)

smoke some rope, Listen to some freaks on stage, so that I can be scared to death of society.

[douG]

Good point, Paul, I agree. That is wrong in so many different ways.

 

Mooseroo, the only problem with that guy's approach, is that he moves too fast and makes some folks uncomfortable. He does a great job of slicing and dicing, and makes his point very well.

 

The only thing Global warming will do is give some kind of excuse for the rich to ignore the poor. And for millions of more people to perish because of something we all take for granted, Electricity and fuel. It's like giving them a death sentence and then blaming them also.

 

So there is a very big negative to acting.

 

I think the point made in the utube vid, and by the transparent ethanol initiative, is that this stuff is happening ALREADY. The rich are already ignoring the poor - see the riots in Mexico and Italy over price increases in corn / tortillas and wheat / pasta. Climate change will only benefit the rich, as during times of stress the stronger become even more strong. Acting now is the big positive, not negative.

 

When you diet with a tiger, the tiger eats last.

 

Holdfast, the geek in the movie said that global depression would happen regardless of whether this whole climate change thingy was true. His point was that a whole other world of crap was there as well. Watch again.

Edited October 19, 2007 by douG

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Don't forget the south Americans are burning 10s of thousands Hectares of

RAIN forest each month.To reclaim land to plant grain for Ethanol.

 

They have been destroying the rain forest for land developments way before the Ethanol drive.

It was only a matter of time......unfortunately thousands of rare species of plants and animals will be destroyed in the process...

 

Also Doug said:The rich are already ignoring the poor - see the riots in Mexico and Italy over price increases in corn / tortillas and wheat / pasta.....

 

Whose fault is it that the farmers are now selling their crops to Gas companies? Where is the government in all this, why aren't prices regulated and why isn't some corn crops allocated for the people(food market)?

[Terry]

but they can make Ethanol from sugar cane and because you can get more Ethanol with less refining it is real cheap to produce, so it is financially viable business unlike our Ethanol

[Guest lundboy]

Ok, here goes...

 

I think the real question here is, what makes everyone so sure that the MainStream Media (MSM) is telling you the truth? Or even telling you the whole story?

 

Do you all really believe that if you find an article with a particular slant to your preferred position on this subject (say from the Washington Post or The New York Times, or even the National Post--Or whatever is your favourite) that they are telling you the truth?

 

Have you not heard that same MSM tell all kinds of stories regarding what was and wasn't happening in Iraq to get support to invade?

 

 

Or that The Whitehouse has paid tons of money to make sure that their agendas are being pushed by the MSM?

 

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/geor...ere-were-a.html

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/081507K.shtml

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washingt...ised_tv_report/

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americ...ticle621189.ece

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/77_TV_st..._news_0405.html

 

I know that the "alternative media" is frowned upon, but if you find the right ones you will encounter REAL investigative journalism not just the corporate/military industrial complex/globalism agenda. I make it a point to look at all sides, all opinions on matters like this (as much as I can find). From what I've read here so far (with a few exceptions) I see a lot of people spewing the MSM headlines.

 

Don't get me wrong sometimes the MSM pumps out the truth in plain sight, and no one pays attention (I have included some examples above).

 

This subject is part of a much larger agenda (take a look at UN Agenda 21, or PNAC, or UNESCO for a start). This agenda has been in play for many decades, if not centuries.

 

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/may2007/0...epopulation.htm

 

Please I implore all of you to investigate subjects like this further. Everyone needs to know more and understand what the real agendas and implications may be. Look at Everything with an open mind.... forget the left right paradigm it does not exist.

 

I know most of you won't read the links presented here, or even the official think-tank and government documents, like Agenda 21, or Kissinger's depopulation document. Pitty... Because the agenda is in plain sight and no one can be bothered to research it.

 

That's OK. The Leafs are playing, NFL season has begun and Twitney Spears has your attention.

Edited October 20, 2007 by lundboy