Headhunter Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Hey Guys, As I was fishing Lake O on the weekend, using riggers, dipsey's and lead core a question came to mind. All the fish we caught were kept and the belief was/is that these fish are coming up from fairly deep and won't survive after being boated. Personally, I'd like to keep one fish, then release the bigger/non-eater size. Is it true that these deep water fish won't survive a quick release? We had one self release at the net (Steelie) and we could see it struggling in the distance as we trolled along... it didn't look good for it! (We really couldn't back track and grab it as we had 5 other lines in the water at that time) What are your thoughts? HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 My thoughts on that, is that those fish are put and take. Once they go up the river, they're dead without having made little ones. It's nice to be able to release fish to be able to fight another day but when one goes belly up.....well. Maybe someone could enlighten me on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfish1965 Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 The rainbows reproduce to an extent, but the salmon are definitely put and take. Most trout species can survive being released from 30 or so feet. Other species like walleye usually do not, which is why most times on Erie it is pretty much all catch and keep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted September 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Interesting Rick... is it a fact that Koho's don't naturally reproduce in the Lake O area? Salmon i get as a put and take fishery, but Steelies? Are they not solid natural reproducers in the many tribs on the lake? Thanks, HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfish1965 Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 There is not enough natural reproduction for either the salmon or the rainbows to be self sustaining. The spring tribs here dry up much too quickly for the rainbows. Some argue that there is lots of natural reproduction, but the same people usually yell if you say we should stop stocking them. None of these fish are native to these waters, so they would not naturally be able to sustain their own population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted September 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Thanks for that... so I can now get over the immense feeling of guilt I've been carrying around for a couple of days! HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aniceguy Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 great question Let me dispell a few myths. Rainbows are a self sustaining fish population with upwards of 60% coming from natural reproduction. There are a myriad of watersheds on the North shore of Lake O that have some of the best juvinile habitat and reproductive water on the planet..........The problem is that exploitation is not allowing this fish population to be self sustaing marry that to migratory blocks ( dams etc) and some special interest groups some of this fantastic water is not accessable. Harvest rates are in the 35% range and 15% is what is really required. Bring those limits down to a 1 fish with a slot and Lake Ontario has the potential to become a world class rainbow fishery On the US side for the most part all rivers are put delay and take fisheries except a few on the far eastern perimiter. Chinooks dont spend much time in the system and if we have a decent winter survival rates in regards to natural reproduction are impressive to say the least. Alot of dicsussion over the years and many of us think that 30% plus of the nooks out there are natural fish. 90% of the rainbows you boat off the riggers die right away or shortly thereafter from delayed mortality. The nooks have a slightly better chance of survival with decent water temps and proper release methods. Sorry to add to the grief HH and if you like I can gladly forward some papers on delayed mortailty and such as mentioned above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted September 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Ok... now I'm confused! Aniceguy, your info is the same as some of the 2nd hand info I've received... the Ganny and the Wilmont both travel through the Ganaraska forrest and that water stays pretty darn cold all summer long! Any further info re Koho and it's ablity to reproduce naturally in the Lake O basin? I don't like or want to kill any fish for no reason... kind of a no win situation here? HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyb Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Spiny rayed fishes (Walleye, Perch, Bass) will be fatally damaged by major atmospheric pressure changes (Eg, air bladders forced out their mouth, bulged eyes, etc) This usually occurs at depths greater than 1 atmosphere or approximately 33 feet deep. That means if you are fishing around 30 feet deep or more for spiny rayed fishes, expect casualties. Soft rayed fishes (Salmon, Trout, Whitefish) can deal with the changes much better, and can actually 'burp' out the expanding air as they approach the surface. They call it 'The Bends' when it happens to humans (Scuba Divers), and it's essentially the same thing that is going on inside a fish - a rapid expansion of air. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greencoachdog Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Take a look at this HH, it's a controversial method called fizzing for release of deep water fish. It also discusses a couple of other options. http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/mnr/pubs/Fizzing.pdf You can also minimize a fishes mortality rate from being caught in deep water by bringing them up to the surface s-l-o-w-l-y. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milty Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 I live right next to the mouth of a large Lake O trib and everytime I take a walk along the break wall, I see atleast one dead chinook with no visible signs of damage, which would indicate death from being lugged up 100+ feet and released. On another note,...I have fished some lager G-bay tribs and have caught well into the hundreds of chinook and many dozen stealhead (and released) over the last few years, ...and Never once have I caught a stocked clipped fish, they were all wild. I dont think natural sustanance is the problem at hand, moreover the commercial fishery and netting that takes place. Just my $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwc67 Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 You can also minimize a fishes mortality rate from being caught in deep water by bringing them up to the surface s-l-o-w-l-y. not really a possibility when the bows are jumping on the surface before you have the rod out of rod holder on the rigger. with warm surface temps you should be prepared to keep some fish. when you have 50 degree surface the fish will swim away even when brought out of 100ft. but they will just quit when they are hauled into 65/70 degree waters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 I live right next to the mouth of a large Lake O trib and everytime I take a walk along the break wall, I see atleast one dead chinook with no visible signs of damage, which would indicate death from being lugged up 100+ feet and released. On another note,...I have fished some lager G-bay tribs and have caught well into the hundreds of chinook and many dozen stealhead (and released) over the last few years, ...and Never once have I caught a stocked clipped fish, they were all wild. I dont think natural sustanance is the problem at hand, moreover the commercial fishery and netting that takes place. Just my $0.02 You cannot rely on fin clips to determine if a fish is stocked or not. I am not familiar the clipping practises on Georgian Bay; but very few of the fish stocked into Lake Ontario are clipped. For Chinook salmon, only salmon involved in pen rearing projects are clipped. Metro East Anglers do not clip any of the browns, bows, or atlantics that we stock. I am not sure if CRAA clips any of the fish they stock. By no means does a lack of a fin clipping mean that a fish didn't come from a hatchery. I don't believe that there is significant reproduction of coho in Lake Ontario. When coho stocking has been suspended, people stopped catching coho's. Had there been natural reproduction, there would still have been significant numbers of coho caught if they had been reproducing on their own. Rainbows definitely do reproduce on their own. Duffins Creek for example is not stocked but receives strong runs of rainbows. I am not sure how much natural reproduction of Chinook occurs; but there is definitely some. Smolts have been found exiting rivers that have not been stocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aniceguy Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 95% of the rainbows caught in the east are of natural origins.. Nope we dont clip any fish we catch and only collect eggs from fish that are not clipped.. In fat we just finished a genetic comparision of unclipped rainbow trout on the Credit and compared them to clipped fish..some interesting data for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POLLIWOGG Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Any bows I've pulled out of LO are like gone in sixty seconds, bows seem to die real fast even when I don't knock em in the head. As for the one you left on the surface, there is no legal way to retrieve it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BITEME Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 The salmon survive a fight in the lake will go up river and die ....no problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyb Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 bows seem to die real fast even when I don't knock em in the head. Nice...LoL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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