lake scugog

[tkeyla67]

Whent up last night 'bout 10pm and stayed till just after midnight. It rained the entire time, hard. Thunder and lightning what a sight... but not a single bite. Tried crankin' some crayfish looking crankbait, white and pink fuzzy grub and a pink and white twin blade spinnerbait with a bungee worm and nothing. My partner was bottom bouncing with a jig tip with worm and using an erie deerie also no luck. We where at the government dock in Ceasarea. There was one local there and all he had was one rock bass.

 

WHERE HAVE ALL THE FISH GONE?

 

Has any one had a success lately?

 

thanks.

[lunkerbasshunter]

i cant believe there are shore fishing spots that hold fish in that lake still. I drove by there on a sunday night and there must have been 50 people with white buckets on the side of the road on hwy 7. Im sure the same could be said for the docks too.

 

Sorry you didnt get much.

 

cheers!

[jedimaster]

Shore fishing is better from the port perry side.

[Greencoachdog]

Thunder and lightning storms usually spook the hell out of fish, they head for deep cover and just sit there. It usually takes them a day or 2 to get back to normal.

 

It may be just me, but it's not really a good idea to be on the water with a rod and reel in your hands during an electrical storm... it could be a SHOCKING experience!

[mooseroo]

We should post "white-bucketeer alerts" whenever we come across a clutch of "catch and what?!" anglers sitting on a bucket of future trophy fish.

 

I rented a houseboat up on Pigeon lake at the end of August and was tempted to buy a slingshot to drive the white-bucketeers away from the locks at night. Nothing more irritating!

[Terry]

most whitebucket people (if we are going to call them that) obey the law just like the livewell people, ( I figure we need a name too)

 

and if they are within the law then they should be left alone to fish

 

I just think we should not try to squeeze a large and varied group into one insulting name

 

but that's me

[lookinforwalleye]

I agree Terry I find the term offensive this comes up often on this site and last year if I recall correctly there was a heated discussion on this topic and I let my feelings know.

 

Tell me what is the difference between a guy enjoying his day on the side of the road catching sunfish and rockbass and a guy sitting in his boat on Lake Simcoe throwing a wack of jumbo perch in his live well????

 

What`s the difference?

[mooseroo]

Certainly not meant as an insulting name. It's just a classification... someone that sits by the shore with a white bucket and releases nothing they catch. I don't see anything offensive in the term but I do see something offensive in their practice.

 

Lookinforwalleye is right and I take equal offense to the boat owner that live-wells every fish they catch, but being a shore-fisherman myself, I don't see that happen very often. I often see 5-10 people in a long line keeping every little fish they hook for hours on end.

 

Being within the law is fine and dandy... but when you keep every fish that bites your hook without considering it's role in the larger system, you are abusing a resource and not thinking. If you are going to eat what you catch be selective and eat the fish that are worth eating. Taking home a three inch perch and cleaning it is a waste a fish because there is no meat on that fish worth the effort of cleaning it.

 

If you leave that three inch bait fish in the lake, it might turn into a decent meal in a year or two or feed a larger fish for you to catch next month.

 

People always complain that there are no big fish in the lakes close to Toronto. Think raking out the bait fish might have some impact?

 

Every time I've seen people sitting on white buckets catching fish, nothing has ever been returned to the river or lake. They will be known as 'white-bucketeers" to me and many others.

 

I'm all for angling fun for live-well owners and bucket owners alike. I own a number of buckets myself. Enjoying a day on/near the water and reeling in fish after fish is a real joy, but I know which fish are worth cleaning and eating and which fish are worth letting go to catch another day.

[Terry]

it is not the fishermans job to look a the bigger picture

it is their job to read the rules and follow them

if they don't follow them ..kick their donkey, call the cops ,the MNR, whatever it takes

 

but if they follow the rules

b!tch and complain to the government and get the laws changed

because it is their to maintain the ecosystem, not the everyday fisherman

 

you go beyond the everyday fisherman and understand how easy it is to screw up the balance as do I

 

but it is not the job of the weekend fisherman and we can't put that or our valves onto them, again when they are following the rules

[Toronto_Angler]

it is not the fishermans job to look a the bigger picture

it is their job to read the rules and follow them

if they don't follow them ..kick their donkey, call the cops ,the MNR, whatever it takes

 

but if they follow the rules

b!tch and complain to the government and get the laws changed

because it is their to maintain the ecosystem, not the everyday fisherman

 

you go beyond the everyday fisherman and understand how easy it is to screw up the balance as do I

 

but it is not the job of the weekend fisherman and we can't put that or our valves onto them, again when they are following the rules

 

Hi Terry, I agree with you that it is the responsibility of the MNR and Government's job to maintain the ecosystem. The problem is that the government only seems interested in maximizing profit and slashing budgets to MNR. Organizations like OFAH (Made up of everyday fisherman) have recently become more responsible for helping our fisheries with their stocking programs and conservation efforts.

While I don't agree with vigilante justice I do agree with the fact that as fisherman we have a responsibility to protect our sport, whether this is through education or whether it is through support of organizations such as OFAH. We can't sit back as Anglers and rely on our government to help us out because if we did then our fisherie will be gone.

[mooseroo]

Terry, that's pretty short sighted. Do you drive your car everyday, never listening for bumps and rattles, saying that it's not your job to take care of the car, it's your mechanic's job?

 

I'm pretty sure we won't upset the environmental balance by being selective of the fish we keep for consumption. Nature is pretty self-regulating. Extra bait fish in a lake typically means extra large fish in a year. I've worked on both the US and Canadian side of this debate and been on both the government and private citizen sides as well. I know the science behind it and the emotion.

 

By your definition it's the "everyday fisherman's" duty to be ignorant of the world around. Give anglers more credit. You are right... It's not the job of the everyday fisherman to look at the bigger picture. It's their responsibility. The rules only get changed if we are all vigilant, aware of our surroundings, and voice our opinions and concerns. The MNR only changes the rules when opinions are made public; their most important resource is the observations made by anglers. I complain to the MNR about this whenever I see them out and about.

 

I mentioned wanting to use a slingshot to chase away bucketeers. I didn't do it because I know they are within the law. I did comment to them that the small fish they were mindlessly keeping would probably be a much better meal if they threw them back and caught them again next year. Double your fishing fun and double your food!

 

It's not my intention to start a flame war. I'd just like to find a way to reduce the number of people that give our sport a bad name and protect the wonderful resources we have in the province.

Edited September 20, 2007 by mooseroo

[Terry]

no the car is mine, as would be the guys fishing rod , so the car is the rod and he can look after it any way he wants

 

the road would be the fisheries and it is not my job to fix the road or to complain to the guy who uses it more then I do.

if I have a problem with the road(fish) I go to the gov. and complain..not the guy within the law driving the road

 

I understand you feelings and I feel much the same way

but I blame the MNR for not doing more, not the guy fishing within the law

 

 

 

hate the law not the people fishing within the law

[mooseroo]

Agreed and I don't "hate" the people fishing within the law. I just hate the thoughtlessness of those that don't release.

 

They don't know any better but they also don't take the time to learn about what they are doing. It's unfortunate.

[Terry]

I agreed

 

and "hate the law not the people fishing within the law"

was more of a slogan then a comment.......

which means we need to work on the law makers to change things

 

and maybe there is a way we can educate that group of fisherpeople

maybe we could get signs made up and put them in spots where they shore fish and at ramps

[Roy]

It's a matter of perspective. The same could be said about people "catching" almost dead salmon on the tribs this time of year when most fisherfolks know full well that many of those fish did not bite.

[jedimaster]

Maybe its the White part of the White bucket that people don't like. What if we called it a blacket bucketers or yellowbucketers or red bucketers.

Maybe just call them bucketers?

Or maybe call them the same as what we call people with boats that don't release the little ones?

 

Harvesters

 

Fishermen and Fisherwoman release more than they keep, and have some concept of the EcoSystem. Certainly everyone is not David Suzuki but at least understand that if you harvest hundredsof little ones there will be no big ones that spawn and eventually no more fish to catch.

 

Stay within the laws and use common sense.

 

Push the MnR and your local MPP to make a change in the fishing laws.

 

But whatever you do. Don't call these people that take home 100 small fish in a bucket fisherman. They are not in my eyes.

[Greencoachdog]

Maybe they should be called the 5 gallon bucket brigade (that would be 19 liters in Hoser speak).

 

As far as I can tell by looking at the regs, there aren't any size or creel limits on Sunfish and a lot of places don't have any limits on Crappie or Perch. If there aren't any limits on the fish these people are taking, then they aren't doing anything wrong!

 

We have the 5 gallon bucket people down here too, and the thing that bothers me the most about them is that they let those fish set in those buckets for hours... with and without water in them. By the time they get the fish home, they're stiff as boards and have started the decaying process. I'm sure they still eat them, but that's just plain nasty to me! Buy a cooler and put those fish on ice!!!

[bigfish1965]

Sigh....

 

Let's try this and see if it helps.

Panfish in general have populations limited only by food source. Predation is almost a non-factor since their breeding abilities are far superior to predator type fish. Their ability to rebound from unusual environmental changes is well established. This is an effect of evolution and the reason predator fish exist the way they do. The lower down the food chain you are, the less susceptible to changes you are and the more resilient you are.

There is little, if anything, to worry about from the harvest of sunfish et al which is why there is no limits on them.

There are biologists with PHD's that work on this crap every day. When they see a particular imbalance they act. We've got the best fishing anywhere and there's a reason. In spite of our government(s) our scientists do an excellent job keeping an eye on populations.

In spite of all the worries, all the pressures, there has never been a collapse of panfish populations even back when harvest was the rule and not the exception.

Some panfish and feedfish like rockbass and smelt, predate on the fry of predators like walleye and bass. Harvest of these fish may have a positive impact on overall gamefish populations.

Think...then type.

[Zamboni]

People throwing everything caught into a bucket need to be checked more often by MNR. That's my concern, are slot limits being followed on eyes-are tiny muskie being kept? Anybody, regardless of race/origin fishing for the meat not sport needs to be watched closely.

[Terry]

I don't care what type of fisherman they are I like to see more inspections of their kept fish

I was in the canal in Keswick wait to put the boat on the trailer

I saw a bass OOS swimming and noticed that it had a hook in it's mouth

just then it swam away and a unattended rod moved toward the water..I realized it was caught on the rod

just then a women ran over and grabbed the rod moved it way from the waters edge and let out some line..

I said you know that fish is out of season and must be let go

she said it's not my rod, I just didn't want it to go in the water.......

 

a minute later I see her looking at the road and entrance to the park

a man and women are coming into the park a a fair pace and holding a green garbage bag......didn't take me long to put 2 and 2 together...

 

she ran out to meet them, he looked over at me and handed the bag to the women and came to the rod

 

he looked at me looked at the fish in the water, set the rod down and stood there

I took out my camera took a picture of the fish the rod and him

 

then he said" well the fish was going to die and we are going to dispose of it

I say the law states that you must release an OOS fish even if it is dead

 

he lets it go and walks away....

 

now you know he knew he was breaking the law, made his wife and daughter be part of his crime..and he was a guy that lives just down the road from the park and he didn't look any different then I look and did not have a bucket of any colour but the bag was green..dark green ..almost black..I am thinking a glad bag.........damn those glad baggers

 

 

yes we need they people to be caught and punished

[mooseroo]

Nobody is suggesting that taking panfish at incredible rates will crash the population. I'm just suggesting that if those small panfish, tiny perch, young bass, and other species are left in the lakes/rivers, we might get a better crop of larger (and tastier ) fish in future seasons. The trophy species rely on the smaller species for food. Roughly, more food equals more big fish. I'm aware of the science behind this debate. I was one of those scientists for several years. The MNR takes guidance from my former employer. If you are interested in this and other related subjects, read through some of the publications found there. They have some fascinating reports.

 

We could argue the fine points until the carp come home. I think the point to take away is to act responsibly and with some though when taking fish for consumption. Wasting hundreds of small inedible fish is not of benefit to the aquatic ecosystem and not benefiting the person taking them home.

 

I like Terry's suggestion about an educational sign that could be placed near common ramps/locks to inform people of the connection between bait/panfish and the growth and population size of the larger species.

Edited September 21, 2007 by mooseroo

[jedimaster]

Big ones get big from onece being little ones. Only a small percentage of little ones get to be big ones. Take away a bunch of little ones and you takes away a bunch of big ones.

If anyone here thinks that the Bucketer's or Glad Baggers is specifically targeting Perch, Rock Bass and Sunfish your nieve, They will catch and keep anything and everything they hook. Just look in one of those buckets from time to time. I have personally seen many oos fish and many small largies and and even a few pike.

Do you keep your 1 pound largies? Do you keep you 5 pound Largies? Not likely why defend someone keeping a half dozen .5 pound largies?

[BGis]

Anyone ever seen the hand crank grinders for the buckets. The things are disgusting, catch a sunfish ect any size and crank it into the bucket.

[duckdog]

it is not the fishermans job to look a the bigger picture

it is their job to read the rules and follow them

if they don't follow them ..kick their donkey, call the cops ,the MNR, whatever it takes

 

but if they follow the rules

b!tch and complain to the government and get the laws changed

because it is their to maintain the ecosystem, not the everyday fisherman

 

you go beyond the everyday fisherman and understand how easy it is to screw up the balance as do I

 

but it is not the job of the weekend fisherman and we can't put that or our valves onto them, again when they are following the rules

 

 

Speaking of offensive I myself find this post very offensive, it is for sure the job of the fisherman to look at the bigger picture and tell me you dont throw fish back in because you want to catch more later, well then you just looked at the bigger picture

 

Firm beleiver in yes follow the rules and helpenforce them, there is alot more anglers out there then there is law

 

As for grouping people I will not get into that, I dont see the point of keeping everything you catch, that's all I have to say on that subject

[Terry]

as do I about you

 

 

so, you look at the big picture in everything in life or just fishing

 

so I take it you don't fish because fishing for sport is cure and unnecessary

 

you will not have children, because the world is getting over populated

 

you don't drive a car because if you look at the big picture you would be killing the world using oil products

 

you clearly only use solar power and wind power because everything else is killing the planet

 

or is it just fishing where you have great insight and can clearly see the big picture and all else in the world should think the way you do........give me a break

 

people that think everyone else should have the same valves as them sure are full of themselves

 

if they are within the law leave them the hell alone...they even made a law to protect their right to fish