Size really does matter

[TennesseeGuy]

My friend and I have spent many weeks together in a cabin and have shared the same boat several weeks while fishing in Ontario. He has never come close to breaking any fishing or boating law during our 15 years on the water. Not until two weeks ago on Nungesser Lake. He had an Ontario seasonal license that allowed one walleye over 18.1 inches. With him in his boat was his wife with her library card and book. She was not fishing. He boated and released several walleyes between 20" & 26" and decided to put four smaller fish in the live well for dinner without measuring them. Along came a single person in a boat. When he got close off came his jacket, exposing a fully uniformed Donny Maw. Sort of a Clark Kent to Superman change. The two largest walleyes fit easily into Donny's 18.1 inch measuring device, until a really tight tail pinch put each about 1/4" over the magic 18.1" mark. One fish was free, the second cost $180 and Donny kept the illegal fish. Donny was professional and there's no complaint from us. My guy was wrong and he'll pay the fine. He won't rant. He won't boycott fishing camps and he'll return to NW Ontario with me next month.

 

On our way off the lake at the end of our stay we met a party from another camp who were caught with 31 walleyes over and they were hit hard. The lost half of their equipment and will not be allowed to enter Ontario for 3-5 years except for their court appearance. Their fine will be in the neighborhood of $15,000. I can't understand why they'd want 31 extra fish.

 

We've gotta be careful.

[Greencoachdog]

31 fish is just plain damn blatant!!!

I'll bet your buddy measures his fish from now on.

[Gerritt]

TG, When I read about this "on the other forum" I thought that this CO was being a little over the line... and my opinion still stands... I mean if it is close (where it could go either way) why not give the average weekend warrior a break... some of these CO's and Donny Maw in particular (I have read about him before) are just itching to bust people, even if the charge is questionable.. but in the same token.. I am Happy he is on the water enforcing the regs.... However I do believe there has to be a bit of discretion.. It is my understanding he would pull out a rolling pin to gain an 1/8" to lay a charge... (Kidding) but sometimes these charges are senseless as is the case with your friend... Perhaps the slot sizes should be posed in Millimetres.. Hell nanometres just to ensure we are not off by 1/64" of an inch..

 

I do applaud the CO for doing his job... But there has to be some middle ground when things could swing either way...

 

Gerritt.

Edited August 20, 2007 by Gerritt

[muskymatt]

serves em right ...shoulda took all the gear and banned em for life.

 

I make sure everyone I fish with is legal...your bud knew he was breaking the law, when you buy your licence it's explained what your limits are...he wanted to save a buck...he got off easy.

[TennesseeGuy]

Muskymatt, thanks for your post, but I must have failed in my attempt to communicate what took place. Your comment on "my bud" is about 180 degrees from what I was trying to bring to the board. He was not trying to save a buck. His spouse didn't have a license because she wasn't going to fish. She eats walleyes, but won't sting one. She just wanted to be with her husband on the water. Anyway, all the fish were his and he wouldn't have caught fish for another's license. His only mistake was that he didn't measure the fish. The fish were so close to 18.1" that some fishermen may have judged them to be under 18.1 inches. His perspective of an 18.1" fish was stretched by catching and viewing several 20" to 26". It was a good tail pinch that put the two over. Again, we have no complaints.

 

The purpose of my post was to inform others of what may happen when they're checked. Hopefully someone can profit from the thread.

 

It was intended to be a positive post.

[canadianguy33]

LOL. The CO is obviously a dick for giving your friend a ticket for being 1/4" over, and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

[Roy]

It's taken as a positive contribution from this angle, Connie. I can see that happening very very easily.

[muskymatt]

Thats exactly what my response was intending to imply, that every person should know the limits/size restrictions/and every other legality associated with angling......otherwise we start making exceptions and who puts the limits on exceptions???

1/4" over or 2" over ,whats the difference

 

And contrary to what cg33 thinks...anyone who thinks they can ignore the size limits should take a look at themselves....

 

Eveyone on this site preaches abiding by the rules and laws of angling until something like this comes up....

 

is this an exception???

 

is it ok in this circumstance???

 

 

Should we turn a blind eye??

 

I'm sorry ...I'm 100% "0" tolerence for poaching

[solopaddler]

I've heard horror stories about this particular C.O., he sound a bit overzealous to me.

What I'd like to know, why does he constantly patrol Nungesser? Don't most C.O.'s have

a huge territory these days?

Why do you regularly read on the net about this guy busting people on one isolated fly in lake?

[Gerritt]

It's taken as a positive contribution from this angle, Connie. I can see that happening very very easily.

 

 

I agree with Roy... it is a positive post.. and lets other anglers know the CO's are out there doing their jobs... while your friend was over... with a solid tail pinch and stretch he was still over.... do I think he should have been given some slack??.... Yes... yes I do... there is a BIG difference between a tight stretch and tail pinch... compared to 2"......

 

in waters where a slot is imposed I do pinch the tail.. but not to the point to wear I risk damage to the fish.... just incase it is over...and I want to see that fish swim away again...

 

Donny is good CO... I have read alot about him.. but sometimes even good CO's can make bad decisions..... I have heard stories of him hanging out in the bush for hours and hours on end... just to make a bust.. good on him for being dedicated.. But when things come down too stretching the fish out... breaking its spine and damaging its tail... just to collect 180.00.... it some how just does not seem worth it... and trust me they will stretch them out... I have been there... seen it with my own eyes. luckily for me.. mine were WAY smaller then the slot lol

 

Have a great night everyone!

 

Again a very positive post.

 

Gerritt.

[Terry]

from what I have read donny love to bust people and doesn't give anyone the benefit of the doubt ......

[Gerritt]

from what I have read donny love to bust people and doesn't give anyone the benefit of the doubt ......

 

 

agreed Terry.... but you have to admit... it is nice to see them (him) out there protecting our resources... do I think this was a charge worth laying... NO... but for those that have 31 fish over their limit I thank him for the job he is doing...

 

if anyone happens to know his email address please or phone number etc...invite him here... I sure he could add alot of perspective from a CO's point of view...

 

I have read alot of negative about him... but he is just a guy doing his job for the resource we all enjoy... he might be a little harsh... such as this case... but thank god we have people like him on the waters...

 

I have met a ton of Co's... most of then nice guys...(but a few dicks as well) I refer to them the same way I see the guys that hand out parking tickets... as long as your within the law you love em...

 

but...

 

Violate it and you hate them...

 

a thankless job for sure...

 

especially if your on the wrong end of the stick!

 

Gerritt.

[canadianguy33]

Thats exactly what my response was intending to imply, that every person should know the limits/size restrictions/and every other legality associated with angling......otherwise we start making exceptions and who puts the limits on exceptions???

1/4" over or 2" over ,whats the difference

 

And contrary to what cg33 thinks...anyone who thinks they can ignore the size limits should take a look at themselves....

 

Eveyone on this site preaches abiding by the rules and laws of angling until something like this comes up....

 

is this an exception???

 

is it ok in this circumstance???

Should we turn a blind eye??

 

I'm sorry ...I'm 100% "0" tolerence for poaching

 

What a load of crap. The guy was trying to abide by the law and he got a $180 ticket!

 

You do realize that this CO did more harm than he did good in this situation, right? This Bull ticket over 1/4" has broken the trust of at least one honest angler, and smeared the reputation of CO's all across Ontario. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[Greencoachdog]

I also took this to be a positive post. While Mr. Donnies actions may seem severe on TGs fishin' buddy, they're also the same actions that caught the blatant poachers!

 

It's your responsibility to be sure of your creel!!!... SIZE and NUMBERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Be out of the regs... be prepared to pay!

[JerseyDog]

Sounds to me like a very small (1/4"), honest mistake. CO needs to learn some discretion. At most maybe take the fish with a lecture about making sure you measure your fish accurately.

 

Being a CO is about a lot more than handing out a zillion tickets. Its about knowing the difference between the poachers and the guys who might have messed up a little when attempting to follow the regs.

 

CO's like this are bad for the sport, bad for our out of town guests and ultimately only hurt themselves through less overall respect for their authority.

[Deg]

TG, sounds like your bud is a pretty level headed guy. He knew he made an error in judgement and was man enough to take the medicine without ranting and complaining about the 'Big Bad CO'. Unfortunately not all anglers have the common sense to know that the onus is on us to follow the rules. Our job is to measure the fish and if in doubt throw it back, the CO was doing his job enforcing the law. I doubt that he is told to let you off if it is 1/4" today but on holidays and Sundays make it 3/8 or maybe 7/16. The people who complain the most about the rules are usually the ones trying to stretch them as far as possible before they get caught. In this case it was an honest mistake but a mistake none the less.

 

Glad to see the CO was out there. Too often we are hearing complaints that they are never around.

 

Tell your bud, I really respect him for his attitude and maturity. Great to hear that he understood who made the error ... we all make some but the big difference is how we deal with them.

 

Thanks for reminding us to be diligent.

Edited August 21, 2007 by Deg

[holdfast]

Maybe its me, but every time Ive come in contact with a CO they have a poor way of communicating to the public. On back to back weekends in Alberta on 2 different lakes I came across 2 different COs. Never seen one before for at least 15 years. The last time was when I was in BC and got the third degree while fishing for salmon from this well known hard ass CO with a cowboy hat bigger than him. No word of a lie he was about 4 feet but walked around like he was 8 feet. Anyways in Alberta I got a ticket 150 dollars for having filleted a walleye in the boat. I was going to have a shore lunch but rain brought me back to the boat launch where Mr Happy was waiting. No excuses he took my lunch and fined me. Even my military ID didnt give me a break. Then I got a warning ticket for fishing with barbed lures the following week. I got snagged the first month of the first season of the rule change. He was fair I thought (now I always read up to date regulations). So here I am on the way to the Toronto Airport and I stop at Tim Hortins outside of Vaughn on the 400 and I'm reading a map at my car and this CO starts questioning me if I was hunting. Lets see, Tim Hortins parking lot, 4oo highway, Vaughn a city, why pick on me. I'm driving a Sentra. Oh it must of been my sweater with pictures of deer that singled me out. I think that most COs can use some public relation training and not assume everyone purposely breaks the law. Geez show some fairness. So what if your off by an inch. Its not like keeping 3 dozen sport fish. We think that up here, they should get a grip of the freeloaders that are allowed to net. Many of us believe that the government has no Idea on how many so called legal netters are out here. Oh Yea. There is a difference between the fishing in the lakes that are netted and not. I understand where your coming from TG/Connie. Glad they're doing their job, but give some benefit of the doubt

[canadianguy33]

TG, sounds like your bud is a pretty level headed guy. He knew he made an error in judgement and was man enough to take the medicine without ranting and complaining about the 'Big Bad CO'. Unfortunately not all anglers have the common sense to know that the onus is on us to follow the rules. Our job is to measure the fish and if in doubt throw it back, the CO was doing his job enforcing the law. I doubt that he is told to let you off if it is 1/4" today but on holidays and Sundays make it 3/8 or maybe 7/16. The people who complain the most about the rules are usually the ones trying to stretch them as far as possible before they get caught. In this case it was an honest mistake but a mistake none the less.

 

Glad to see the CO was out there. Too often we are hearing complaints that they are never around.

 

Tell your bud, I really respect him for his attitude and maturity. Great to hear that he understood who made the error ... we all make some but the big difference is how we deal with them.

 

Thanks for reminding us to be diligent.

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with questioning our laws and those who enforce them. I find it quite laughable that you think falling in line and 'taking the medicine' is commendable. Especially, considering the fact that many of your fellow anglers on this board feel that the "Big Bad CO" nailed this guy on a technicality that stretches beyond the spirit of the law.

 

The people who complain the most about the rules are usually the ones trying to stretch them as far as possible before they get caught.

 

ha! Tell that to Tommy Douglas, David Suzuki, or any other Canadian that ever made a difference.

[solopaddler]

Anyways in Alberta I got a ticket 150 dollars for having filleted a walleye in the boat. I was going to have a shore lunch but rain brought me back to the boat launch where Mr Happy was waiting. No excuses he took my lunch and fined me.

 

Don't really want to see this thread degenarate into a bashing fest, but I have to comment on this.

I always fillet the fish in my boat removing the skin completely if they're for immediate consumption up at my camp.

What's the letter of law regarding this situation, anyone know for sure?

I always assumed that there was some leniency about the patch of skin thing if the fish was for your immediate personal consumption. What if the skinless fillets are in your fridge or freezer at camp (without being transported) for a few days?

Regardless, I'll still continue to do what I do, just curious really .

[solopaddler]

Here's a response taken from another thread on a different forum discussing the C.O. in question.

Just found it interesting...

 

"I was one of the victims involved in having Donny slapped in 2006 at Nungesser Lake.He searched our cabin without permission,tried to bust us for too many fish.We took him to task over it and the crown attourney for the MNR dropped the charges because he searched without permission or a warrant.Under the charter,section 7,8 we have a reasonable expectation of privacy,even in a rented cabin.

The crown attourney was even kind enough to personally bring all our confiscated fishing gear from Red Lake to my house in Barrie,1400 miles!They were also supposed to give me 8 fish back but Donny must have ate them himself.

So now you all know.Follow the rules,but dont let these overzealous cop wannabees step outside the boundaries,or we will soon lose another right."

[Guest Johnny Bass]

I think the CO was being too harsh. We are talking a 1/4 of an inch and with a pinched tail??? I didn't know you have to pinch the tail???

 

And the fact that Donny KEPT the fish and did not release it in front of the guys , doesn't sound right to me either! Was he keeping it for proof?LOL I say he ate it. Which means he broke the law also!

[Golfisher]

I always fillet the fish in my boat removing the skin completely if they're for immediate consumption up at my camp.

What's the letter of law regarding this situation, anyone know for sure?

I always assumed that there was some leniency about the patch of skin thing if the fish was for your immediate personal consumption. What if the skinless fillets are in your fridge or freezer at camp (without being transported) for a few days?

Regardless, I'll still continue to do what I do, just curious really .

 

There was a thread on this a while back. A member got fined for having skinless fillets in the fridge for dinner; a tad bit harsh, me thinks.

 

Thread

[solopaddler]

There was a thread on this a while back. A member got fined for having skinless fillets in the fridge for dinner; a tad bit harsh, me thinks.

 

Thread

 

Wow can't believe I missed that one, thanks!

[rickster]

Here is a copy of the mnr regs re size limits.

 

 

A variety of size restrictions apply to some species and waterbodies (see Map, A, B, C, D or E ). Unless otherwise stated, size limits refer to total length , which is a measure from the tip of the mouth with the jaws closed to the tip of the tail, with the tail fin lobes compressed to give the maximum possible length.

 

For some waterbodies, the regulation may specify a size limit that is a fork length . Fork length is a measure from the tip of the mouth with the jaws closed to the central part of the tail fin (see below). If you catch a fish in a restricted size range, you must release it immediately. (See Tips on Live Release of Fish ).

 

Provincial regulations are established using the metric system. The conversion to inches has been rounded to one decimal place for the convenience of anglers.

 

You friend was in the wrong and I commend him for not complaining about it.

Personally if I catch a walleye that is close to the slot limit I don't even hesitate to release it. Just not worth the risk if you ask me.

I have had nothing but good experiences with the COs in this area thankfully and I commend them for the job they do.

[BryonG]

Cops are cops.They think differently than the rest of us.Not that it is good or bad.that is just the way it is. People that do that type of job have a different view of the way things are supposed to work and we just have to understand that.