ilario Posted July 11, 2007 Report Posted July 11, 2007 Hi folks, I'm trying to set up a lead core trolling rig. I've tried the 'recommended' Willis Knot, but it's an extremely tricky and impossible knot to attempt. The Power Prod just can't be threaded throught the sheathing of the lead core dacron material. I am either doing somethig wrong or perhaps someone can suggest an alternative to attaching these materials thanks very much in advance! PP
ilario Posted July 11, 2007 Author Report Posted July 11, 2007 Really? well, i will be attaching the lead to the backing (power pro) then I will be attaching mono to the lead on the other end (toward the bait). I will then add a dipsey diver followed by the bait of choice...so I will have to attach two swivels then..I suppose the lead-to-PP would have to be really small. I'm concerend that the swivel will interfere inside the reel, especially when a salmon hits and it has to go throught the level wind. I can foresee major problems at that point!
walleyedreamer Posted July 11, 2007 Report Posted July 11, 2007 try a blood knot http://www.fish4fun.com/bloodknot.htm go to this site.
Sinker Posted July 11, 2007 Report Posted July 11, 2007 Take the end of the braid and dab it about a 3" length from the tip with super glue. As it begins to dry, I wet my fingers and pinch and twist the line a few times where I applied the glue until it begins to stiffen. Then try and slide it in the leadcore with the willis knot. That willis knot is much stronger than it looks.....it looks like it would just pull out!! Sinker
Sherriff Posted July 11, 2007 Report Posted July 11, 2007 Willis Knot for sure and I used nail polish remover to stiffen the up the Power Pro. But the glue should be better. Takes a steady hand.. Not something I would attempt on the water... Sherriff
ilario Posted July 11, 2007 Author Report Posted July 11, 2007 (edited) Take the end of the braid and dab it about a 3" length from the tip with super glue. As it begins to dry, I wet my fingers and pinch and twist the line a few times where I applied the glue until it begins to stiffen. Then try and slide it in the leadcore with the willis knot. That willis knot is much stronger than it looks.....it looks like it would just pull out!! Sinker Sinker, some clarification, if you don't mind; do you mean to apply the super glue along the entire 3" of Power Pro? So basically, this method stiffens it up enough to the point where it can be "pushed" through the hollowed lead core sheathing? thanks to all! Edited July 11, 2007 by Poachers Paradise
ilario Posted July 11, 2007 Author Report Posted July 11, 2007 the willis knot is impossible... i've given up trying it my hats go off to the surgeons who can pull it off...it's a very frustrating knot... problems is, i can't figure out a suitable alternative for lead core to power pro...
Sinker Posted July 11, 2007 Report Posted July 11, 2007 Keep trying....you'll get it.....you only have to tie it once....
SlowPoke Posted July 11, 2007 Report Posted July 11, 2007 Really? well, i will be attaching the lead to the backing (power pro) then I will be attaching mono to the lead on the other end (toward the bait). I will then add a dipsey diver followed by the bait of choice...so I will have to attach two swivels then..I suppose the lead-to-PP would have to be really small. I'm concerend that the swivel will interfere inside the reel, especially when a salmon hits and it has to go throught the level wind. I can foresee major problems at that point! Why would you run a dipsy off a leadcore rod? The benefits of leadcore is the stealthy (device free) approach and the almost idiot-proof zing of the clicker when you have even the smallest fish on. Running a dipsy and leadcore is redundant and you would have to crank down the drag to keep the dipsy from pulling line. The tap-tap-tap of a small fish will not trip the dipsy and your rod tip won't move because the leadcore will deaden the action to your rod tip. Consider using mono for backing, it's much easier to tie. My setup is 20lb Seaguar FC, 10 Colour 27lb Leadcore, 20lb Trilene XT backing. When you deploy your bait, set the clicker and back the drag off all the way. The resistance of the clicker will prevent line from peeling out. When you get a hit, the clicker will zing and you set the hook while thumbing the spool. Then adjust your drag and start cranking. -Brian
Headhunter Posted July 11, 2007 Report Posted July 11, 2007 My Lead Core set up uses mono backing... 30lb test to be exact. I to, use the super glue trick! As Lead core linesvary in strength, I use the 30lb mono with I believe around 34lb (?) Leadcore. Pull about 2-3 inches of the core sheath back, and cut the lead. Insert your mono into the sheath and super glue the entire joint. Let it sit for about 5 minutes and your done. As mentioned above, Lead core strengths vary and you may have to experiment with various strengths of mono to get the best fit. FYI - I have never had this application break! Trout, Salmon, Pickeral... none have broken it and it lasts as long as your mono lasts. It reels up into a level wind perfectly and is flexible enough to use in sub zero temps! You can also do it while out on the water as it's really pretty easy! HH
fishnsled Posted July 11, 2007 Report Posted July 11, 2007 I've used the same set up as HH because that's what he told me to do last year when I was asking him about it. So far so good!
ilario Posted July 11, 2007 Author Report Posted July 11, 2007 (edited) actually, you can get a LOT MORE line by using PP on your reel. You guys must have massive reels...you need at least 200 yards, and probably quite a bit more of backing. Think aqbout it; you have 10 colours out..how much 30lb mono could you possibly have on you reel? 100yards on a peen reel for example? If youfishing Georgian Bay, then maybe you can get away with this.. but Lake Ontario slamon are big and huge runs are the norm... As for the Dipsey's, I use them becuase that is what the salmon trollers in Michigan, NY and now Ontario are employing.. the SpoonPullrs salmon website has a bunch of guys using this mehtod... it works because you donpt need as much lead out, it gets the lines of to one side or the other and it's apparently a very stealtful way of fishing getting mono into the sheathing isn't a problem; it's getting PP into it, which is a very limp material... think about a man with erectile disfunction and you'll envision what I mean!!'' BTW, I tried the uni knot and crazy glued the spot too..seems to be holding up... p.s. I won;t exclsusively use dispy's with this...sometimes I will run straight lead/bait Edited July 11, 2007 by Poachers Paradise
Headhunter Posted July 11, 2007 Report Posted July 11, 2007 10 colours out off of an in-line board and you've got pretty much the same result as the dipsey. BTW - I've got about 100 -150 yds. of 30 lb backing on my lead core reel... but I hear yah! Maybe take a look at a large capacity Penn reel for this application... since your using lead core anyway, you don't REALLY need a counter reel. HH
fisher Posted July 11, 2007 Report Posted July 11, 2007 Maybe this is a dumb question but wouldn;t the lead core plus the dispey allow the bait to get deeper than just lead core alone (all else being equal - like the same amount of lead core out)? I just started using lead core (6 colours out) with a dipsey last weekend and we got quite a few hits and landed most - all rainbows though - except for one small salmon.
ilario Posted July 11, 2007 Author Report Posted July 11, 2007 Maybe this is a dumb question but wouldn;t the lead core plus the dispey allow the bait to get deeper than just lead core alone (all else being equal - like the same amount of lead core out)? I just started using lead core (6 colours out) with a dipsey last weekend and we got quite a few hits and landed most - all rainbows though - except for one small salmon. yes, deeper and further away from the boat..that's what the people using this method think is the advantage... I have an Okuma 45...very nice reel. It's only a little larger than the Penn 320 but has a lot more line capacity BTW: apparently, some 'expert' on one of th Michigan salmon sites beleives that lead core doesn't sink any where close to what many report... it's widely believed that for every colour, the line sinks roughly 10' depending on speed, lure, current, etc... but i think he said it was closer to about 3' to 5' so 10 colours would sink anywhere from 30' to 50' max. I think this is in fact correct, at least on the Great Lakes, where you are contending with strong currents, winds, etc...so a diver would give you that added depth.
Headhunter Posted July 11, 2007 Report Posted July 11, 2007 Correct... lead core is very much speed dependent. Running that much line out (10 colours) and a dipsey... you had better have a pretty stout rod! HH
Wes Bender Posted July 11, 2007 Report Posted July 11, 2007 Has anyone tried the albright knot for this? Albright knot I find it much easier to tie then a blood knot and it is very strong. Meant for tying dissimilar size lines. Never tried lead to mono but I sure it will be fine. I use it for tying backing to fly line and fly line to mono.
Uncle Buck Posted July 11, 2007 Report Posted July 11, 2007 use a sewing needle to thread the power pro through, then poke the needle through once you get to the lead an pull the power pro back in... i did a double willis knot for the power pro and a single for the flouro... this will work, i just did 4 reels last week
fisher Posted July 11, 2007 Report Posted July 11, 2007 (edited) Willis Knot....That is what I used to connect both the fluorocarbon leader - one knot and the power pro backing - 2 knots. And it was tested this weekend with a 14 lb rainbow. Edited July 11, 2007 by fisher
fisher Posted July 11, 2007 Report Posted July 11, 2007 (edited) http://www.greatlakesfisherman.com/forums/...hread.php?t=451 Willis Knot step by step instructions. Worked for me on the first try - mind you I was uising the 45lb lead core and threading 40lb power pro into it. Edited July 11, 2007 by fisher
ilario Posted July 11, 2007 Author Report Posted July 11, 2007 use a sewing needle to thread the power pro through, then poke the needle through once you get to the lead an pull the power pro back in... i did a double willis knot for the power pro and a single for the flouro... this will work, i just did 4 reels last week that's a great idea... i did try to thread a needle through but it was too thick. I think I may be running 18lb test lead core and that might be the reason its not trheading...it's too thin.. i can't recall what size 'cause I've had this core now for 3 seasons...i used it to fish for lakers in haliburton in the past and i think i went with a thinner diameter at the time... the 27lb must be thicker thanks
ilario Posted July 11, 2007 Author Report Posted July 11, 2007 http://www.greatlakesfisherman.com/forums/...hread.php?t=451 Willis Knot step by step instructions. Worked for me on the first try - mind you I was uising the 45lb lead core and threading 40lb power pro into it. yes, that might be the problem...as i said in the other post, it may be that i'm using 18lb core i did see that site - pretty good instructions and it looks so easy!
ilario Posted July 11, 2007 Author Report Posted July 11, 2007 Has anyone tried the albright knot for this? Albright knot I find it much easier to tie then a blood knot and it is very strong. Meant for tying dissimilar size lines. Never tried lead to mono but I sure it will be fine. I use it for tying backing to fly line and fly line to mono. That's an awesome site...so much clearer than the others i've seen. thanks, i just saved it in favourites! PP
Uncle Buck Posted July 11, 2007 Report Posted July 11, 2007 (edited) i spooled 2 reels with 27 lb core and 2 spools with 18lb core... you just need to find a smaller needle Hey PP, i just noticed you signed up on OFC on my birthday!! the fish gods will bless you Edited July 11, 2007 by Uncle Buck
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