Help the Troubled Credit River

[Quinn]

http://www.ipetition...he-credit-river

Please take 30 seconds to sign the petition to save the Credit River fishery, which is dwindling quickly. With no access to the river due to closed fish ladders, fish cant reach spawning water and with no reproduction, there will soon be no fish.

If you fish the river or the lake, it affects you one way or the other. And after all, its your tax dollars going to support a failing fisheries management plan, thanks to the MNR. Look east and every river is stacked with wild salmon because they have access to water in which they can reproduce, but not the Credit..

Thanks.

[joeybacala]

Really sad development. I fished that river for so many years growing up in Mississauga. Wonderful memories that I still share today with my kids today. I really hope the situation improves sooner rather than later.

[netminder]

Personally, I believe pretty much all dams should be removed from our rivers. Especially the dozens if not hundreds that serve absolutely no purpose or have essentially been abandoned over the years. Look at the Rocky Saugeen River. SVCA did a study on it a couple years ago and concluded almost all the dams in their watershed were doing nothing but preventing fish from moving through the rivers and streams.

[BillM]

I like my resident brown fishery the way it is, not going to sign. Let alone the amount of traffic certain fish in certain areas would bring.

Edited September 24, 2015 by BillM

[dave524]

I like my resident brown fishery the way it is, not going to sign. Let alone the amount of traffic certain fish in certain areas would bring.

 

X2 agreed, keep the gong show to the lower river

 

edit: please keep the dam on the Ganny as well

Edited September 24, 2015 by dave524

[Quinn]

While there is certainly a great Brown Trout fishery above Norval, allowing migratory fish over streetsville and opening up the river to Norval (which they don't have access to right now) will not affect the Browns above the norval dam. Salmon will never get over Norval plain and simple, but restricting the largest tributary on the north Shore of Lake Ontario to just Streetsville doesn't make much sense, and leaves 30km of river unused.

 

A little education on the matter would go a long way.

[Salmonidstalker]

 

X2 agreed, keep the gong show to the lower river

 

edit: please keep the dam on the Ganny as well

You will eventually loose you're brown trout fishery. The MNR will be lifting the no kill soon moving towards the Atlantics and Brook Trout only.

 

I feel like those that are against dam removal have very selfish motives and want to keep something for themselves.

 

Damnation was a great documentary, and has become a hot topic around the world.

[dave524]

The resident browns were there long before the special no kill, barbless regs and sure they will be there long after, if indeed there is a change in the regs. Yes remove the no kill, can't wait for an Atlantic on the smoker or a Unicorn

[craigdritchie]

You will eventually loose you're brown trout fishery. The MNR will be lifting the no kill soon moving towards the Atlantics and Brook Trout only.

 

Atlantic salmon ... yeah, there's a laugh. Stock a half-million each year so that 30 show up at the ladder. Great program, let's go with it.

[Salmonidstalker]

 

Atlantic salmon ... yeah, there's a laugh. Stock a half-million each year so that 30 show up at the ladder. Great program, let's go with it.

I agree. The MNR and OFAH really dropped the ball on that project and I do not support it at this point in time. However, my point is simply the MNR are now focusing on Brook Trout and Atlantics.

 

Unfortunately for anglers, whether upstream or down, it will affect everyone. It will be a sad day when no migratories will be left to catch on the Credit; for the sake of a few fly fishermen and their stocked non-native brown trout.

[landry]

I agree VXP.

[Quinn]

I agree. The MNR and OFAH really dropped the ball on that project and I do not support it at this point in time. However, my point is simply the MNR are now focusing on Brook Trout and Atlantics.

 

Unfortunately for anglers, whether upstream or down, it will affect everyone. It will be a sad day when no migratories will be left to catch on the Credit; for the sake of a few fly fishermen and their stocked non-native brown trout.

Your tax dollars are going towards the management of Atlantic Salmon (of which there are none) and the diminishing trout and pacific salmon fishery, which surely would disappoint most anglers. Time for the public to voice their concerns.

[Quinn]

 

Atlantic salmon ... yeah, there's a laugh. Stock a half-million each year so that 30 show up at the ladder. Great program, let's go with it.

 

30??

 

So far they've lifted 2 grilse above Streetsville in 2015...

[landry]

Our MNR are promoting a pipe dream.

They are so in love with rebuilding truly native species that they have stopped working in a truly productive manner.

$$$$ should be spent on improving what is working or what will likely work - not likely on Simcoe Muskie and definitely not Atlantic Salmon.

Getting back to the original thread point - anadromous species should have access up to Norval on the Credit.

To be honest, though not a popular opinion, I believe that the American strategy of planting a mother load of steelhead for a put and take fishery is a better investment for Lake Ontario than the approach our MNR has taken. A ton of hardcore ateelheaders would likely disagree even though many of those same guys head down to NY to enjoy their awesome runs - especially in the Lake Erie Steelhed Alley hayday.

[BillM]

I can see letting salmon and steelhead get to Norval, no issues with that. Has anyone noticed that the fish can take care of themselves? (ie look at rivers without any sort of man made barriers)

[Salmonidstalker]

If you know the Credit intimately, there is very little spawning water below Norval. Steelhead definitely would not stand a chance spawning there, its just too hot during the summer for fly/smolt survival.

 

Fish can 100% can take care of themselves; provided man does not interfere too much. I would love to see more angling opportunities for everyone. A quality run of Pacifics and migratory trout would benefit the river anglers, and create a fantastic Lake fishery. And you can bet those resident browns would put on some serious weight and size gorging on smolts all year long.

[BillM]

Those resident browns love eating Atlantic smolts

[dave524]

Can not Chinooks successfully spawn below, it is my understanding that they hatch and leave the rivers before the heat of the following summer ?

[PUMP KNOWS]

I wish all the dams would be removed from all rivers

[Salmonidstalker]

Can not Chinooks successfully spawn below, it is my understanding that they hatch and leave the rivers before the heat of the following summer ?

Yes, Chinooks can spawn below Norval with success. However, there is very little spawning water ie. Shallow fast moving water over gravel beds. There might be a few hundred yards in total downstream of the Norval Dam in which they might have success. I've also seen these better spawning sections pretty much dry in Summers that don't provide enough rain. So if and when Salmon make it to these areas, the water is far to shallow to utilize.

 

And BillM, you're right. Browns love Atlantic smolts. Start tying up some Atlantic streamer patterns lol.

Edited September 25, 2015 by VXP

[craigdritchie]

 

30??

 

So far they've lifted 2 grilse above Streetsville in 2015...

 

I think the all-time record might be something like 51 fish going through the ladder, from stocking something like a half-million per year. Then it dropped to about 30-ish. And so far, you say only two this year? Sounds about right. Since they began stocking Atlantics into Lake Ontario in the mid-1980s, I can count the number I've caught on one hand. Just a fantastic return on investment.

 

 

Those resident browns love eating Atlantic smolts

 

LOL ... given the survival rate, it seems like a lot of other things like eating them too. Atlantic salmon = very expensive fish food.

[sleepjigging]

The Aim of the Atlantic program is habitat rehabilitation. Until that happens, there is no chance for them and most species. Let the habitats come back and then talk about stocking.

 

Unfortunately, without the stocking program, there is no money for habitat restoration. (Funding catch 22.)

 

We have to wait. Success is not going to happen overnight.

[landry]

Sleepjigging - I think u drank the cool aid. Just teasing you.

We've waited long enough. They should move back to species that have shown a good rate of return like steelhead, lakers and coho IMO. Yes the lake guys love chinooks so that is fine too cause, other than the last couple years, it has proven effective. There is still a huge alewive population in Lake O so I believe these species will continue to thrive.

Improving stream habitat and removing barriers is always a great idea though. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Btw - I don't even river fish anymore but I was hardcore from age 17-35. Got sick of the crowds and big egos. Bought a boat. Never looked back.

[mpagnan]

All I can add to this is the sadness seeing all these rivers ankle deep most of the fishing season.

[craigdritchie]

The Aim of the Atlantic program is habitat rehabilitation.

 

Then why not just spend the money directly ON habitat rehabilitation, and stop wasting it on raising and stocking fish that only seem to exist on paper? There's no benefit to creating false expectations.

 

 

Unfortunately, without the stocking program, there is no money for habitat restoration.

 

There will be even less money for any kind of fisheries management efforts when this one doesn't produce the results that have been promised. Corporate donors (like that Australian winery) won't appreciate being told they're "bringing back the salmon" when, in fact, there is virtually no chance of that ever really happening.

 

 

We have to wait. Success is not going to happen overnight.

 

No offense, but I have been hearing that load of crap since they started stocking Atlantics in 1985. No, success doesn't happen overnight. But it shouldn't take 30 years either.

 

OMNR began stocking coho salmon into the Credit River (>100,000 fish) in spring 1968. By fall 1969, they had large runs (3,000+) in the Credit and Humber Rivers. That didn't take 30 years to see any results. It took 18 months.

 

OMNR started stocking rainbows into the Ganaraska in large numbers (100,000 fish/yr) in the early 1970s. By the late 1970s, they had 10,000+ fish going over Corbett Dam each spring. By the early '80s, they were over 15,000 fish. That didn't take 30 years to see any results. It took less than six years.

 

OMNR stocked their first chinook salmon into Bronte Creek in 1974 (100,000 fish). By 1978, Bronte Creek was choked with adult chinooks every fall. That didn't take 30 years to see any results. It took three years to see large returns of jacks, and only another 12 months to see big returns of adults.

 

 

 

Consider it this way ...

 

If we began stocking 500,000 chinook/yr into the Credit River, within three to four years you will see enormous runs of adult chinook. No one doubts this for a second.

 

If we began stocking 500,000 rainbows/yr into any river, within 18 months you will see catchable fish and within three years you will have massive runs of fish. No one doubts this either.

 

If we stocked 500,000 browns (I wish!!) into the Credit or Humber, you would be walking on the things within two years.

 

Yet for years we have been stocking 500,000 Atlantics into the Credit every spring, and we have maybe 30 fish per year (and this year, apparently just two grilse) to show for it?

 

Look man, I am patient. But even I have my limits.

Edited September 27, 2015 by Craig_Ritchie