lookinforwalleye Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Who is the that brought up Scott Stevens anyway!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobogo Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) I love the "respect" talk. Even when I play in my crappy men's league there is no respect for other players. Imagine these guys playing to make money for their careers... There will be no respect at all. It's every man for himself. To set themselves apart to make the money. Respect is worthless in sports. Not just professional sports, but leagues at all level. You want to play soft? Have your own friends gather and play a friendly game. When you play to win, hurting the other player is part of the game. Obviously no one wants to end anyone's career but to produce a big hit that Orpiks did is highly sought after. It's the same question with why is there fighting in hockey? People don't understand that the fighting is there to control the tempo of the game. If players were allowed to make strong hits on other team's star players and being able to hide behind the refs, say good bye to skilled players. They will get rocked all game. People think there is no relation between fighting players and skilled players. Enforcers allow skilled player to play their game. So yea, what Thorton did was try to defend his teammate because he is an enforcer. But doing what he did was crossing the line, and even he knew that. End of discussion. Back to the Leafs. They did get alot of shots on the B's which I think is better then the usual loppsided shot counts overall. Edited December 9, 2013 by bobogo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Who is the that brought up Scott Stevens anyway!!! Must have been a Habs fan, lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookinforwalleye Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Must have been a Habs fan, lol! Sorry!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chance Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 I am on topic ,I believe it might actually be your comprehension. I was discussing respect and vulnerable hits of which hitting from behind is one example. I am sure it has been part of the game since you were a kid but not knowing your age I dont know how much emphasis was placed on it.I also do not know your level of experience or how you formulate your opinion,but I do respect it. I played for many years at several levels with the exception of one. I now coach children and can tell you the difference between now and then is astounding.When I was younger it was barely mentioned now a weekend is spent on it at every level of minor coaching. Delivering hard hits are fine,knock em out if thats your thing. Look for a player with his head down and hit him hard. Like I said there are many things in the game that are okay by the letter of the law. I do not believe in hitting in a vulnerable position but thats just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 I don't consider a hit from behind and a guy with his head down even on the same page. If you think someone skating down the ice with their head down is considered vulnerable, then I guess that's your choice. So what happens if one of your kids delivers a clean body check, guys head was up, saw it coming. Kid is laying on the ice out cold, still disrespectful or a good hockey play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chance Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 In both instances neither player can see the hit coming and therefore is classed as vulnerable to injury. As a coach your first concern is the well being of the player on the ice and your player. Your player can be affected at the sight of someone he has hit being carted off on a stretcher. As to a good hockey play its hard to say without a bit more info. If a player is coming out of his zone with the puck head up and gets cranked shoulder to shoulder etc and the puck is turned over then sure good move kid,mission accomplished. The object of hitting is to separate the player from the puck. If he takes himself well out of position to make a useless hit then no "bad hockey play" key the Dion Phaneuf montage. the fact that the other player was knocked out cold was unfortunate and a penalty and or discipline in general should not rely on the outcome of the act. Dont get me wrong I love a good hit and a fight even better. I am a staunch advocate of fighting in hockey at the correct level.It controls the game. Below is a quote from one of the greats,Larry Robinson that might explain my point. Robinson’s era was as violent a time the NHL has known, but the former Habs’ great insists despite all the violence, players had respect for each other back in the good ol’ days. He told the Mercury News, “There were situations where guys put themselves in a vulnerable position, where if you did make contact, there was a possibility he’d get hurt. Back then, some guys were stupid enough not to wear helmets, and you’d ease up.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 It sounds like your kids are in good hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chance Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Thanks.... Some days I think it would be nice to take parts of todays game and some of the days of old and put them together.You cant beat the speed and skill of players now but back then I think they were alot tougher. I can still remember Terry O Reilly challenging the entire bench to fight LOL How long do you think Matt Cooke would last with the likes of Tony Twist chasing him down. Ahhh to dream... Other than that I think its status quo for Canadian teams.The Leafs make the playoffs and drop out first round,The Sens try and try but still nobody cares and the habs have a good run but just cant seem to pull of another cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey buoy Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 I think the Leafs should offer Stevens and Pronger a season contract.Surely they couldn't be as hard hitting as they were once.I still think they would be far better than we have now!That is IMO,lol.Just some fun guys,with a little truth maybe thrown in.We really have to work on getting the puck out of our end FAST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Even with the loss I liked the way we played last night. Offensive zone pressure, decent neutral zone puck control and of course the always bad clearing attempts from our own zone, lol. Penalties killed it for us, if we stayed out of the box, we had a chance to win that game for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey buoy Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Even with the loss I liked the way we played last night. Offensive zone pressure, decent neutral zone puck control and of course the always bad clearing attempts from our own zone, lol. Penalties killed it for us, if we stayed out of the box, we had a chance to win that game for sure. Can they control that?,something tells me not Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish_fishburn Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Rodney Dangerfield got no respect either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Can they control that?,something tells me not Bill. Control what? Penalties? They better, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey buoy Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Control what? Penalties? They better, lol. There pp is one of the best,the stupid penalties seems something that they can't harness.=losing games.I'm sure Randy is livid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickingfrog Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookinforwalleye Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 On one hand I am sure Randy is livid on the other hand I am equally as sure that he is overjoyed that they have 16 wins given the inconsistent play, they could very easily be with Ottawa and Florida in the standings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dontcryformejanhrdina Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) 3 cups in 9 years....last I checked it was a team cup not individual. Could they won without him,maybe. Counting penalties in a league that judges everyone differently is silly. Do you think the refs looked at Gretzky the same way they did Domi? Stevens threw plenty of elbows,you want to see them feel free to search. OF COURSE they avoided his side of the ice for fear of getting decimated. He went out to injure plain and simple so if you want to applaud that style of hockey its all yours. Oh and he certainly did ruin Lindros and a few others. How about his Conn Smythe trophy? There's your individual trophy. Best defenseman on a cup winning team 3 times. Edmonton DID win without Gretzky but that didn't diminish how great he was, so your point doesn't matter. New Jersey never won a cup without Stevens, by the way. That's a fact, not a what if or maybe. Domi...now THERE'S a guy who added nothing but ending players careers. Literally, unlike Stevens who never ended anyone's career despite your claim. What Stevens did was within the rules of the game. His peers respected him which is why he was never named as one of the dirtiest players in the NHL on any player polls. Lindros ruined Lindros. Like I stated earlier, the Stevens hit wasn't his first concussion. Wasn't even his 2nd. Kasparaitis gave Lindros his first. He's 5'11", Lindros is 6'4". He caught Lindros straight on the jaw despite never leaving his feet. How did that happen? Because Lindros had a bad habit of keeping his head down. Should people have let up on poor little old LIndros because he looked at the puck? Because Lindros certainly never held up on the forecheck. I seem to recall Lindros playing after the Stevens hit too, and getting more concussions after that. Stevens never ruined him, despite your claim. The facts suggest otherwise. It was one of many concussions Lindros received in the middle of his career. Just so happened to be his most famous. Yes, I WILL applaud Stevens and his career. I was never a Devils fans (quite the opposite) but I enjoyed the way he played the game. Don't like it? Go watch soccer. Edited December 9, 2013 by Dontcryformejanhrdina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Razor Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Arsenal fans anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chance Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 How about his Conn Smythe trophy? There's your individual trophy. Best defenseman on a cup winning team 3 times. Edmonton DID win without Gretzky but that didn't diminish how great he was, so your point doesn't matter. New Jersey never won a cup without Stevens, by the way. That's a fact, not a what if or maybe. Domi...now THERE'S a guy who added nothing but ending players careers. Literally, unlike Stevens who never ended anyone's career despite your claim. What Stevens did was within the rules of the game. His peers respected him which is why he was never named as one of the dirtiest players in the NHL on any player polls. Lindros ruined Lindros. Like I stated earlier, the Stevens hit wasn't his first concussion. Wasn't even his 2nd. Kasparaitis gave Lindros his first. He's 5'11", Lindros is 6'4". He caught Lindros straight on the jaw despite never leaving his feet. How did that happen? Because Lindros had a bad habit of keeping his head down. Should people have let up on poor little old LIndros because he looked at the puck? Because Lindros certainly never held up on the forecheck. I seem to recall Lindros playing after the Stevens hit too, and getting more concussions after that. Stevens never ruined him, despite your claim. The facts suggest otherwise. It was one of many concussions Lindros received in the middle of his career. Just so happened to be his most famous. Yes, I WILL applaud Stevens and his career. I was never a Devils fans (quite the opposite) but I enjoyed the way he played the game. Don't like it? Go watch soccer. Not really interested in how many trophies he has lining his case,he was nothing more than a predator. Many many so called highlight reels of him hitting the other teams players and them laying on the ice dazed or being carried off. Every hit a hit with the intent to injure.If you like that style of hockey hopefully you will also enjoy a league with nothing but meatheads picking off the stars one at a time.Whose career did Domi end,out of curiosity,not a fan of his either. What facts suggest that Lindros was fine after the hit? I was told he was never the same after that hit but if you know better then maybe he was wrong. Using the argument of a player poll,yeah thats solid,you might want to look up how they are conducted.Respect of his peers,like who,curious to know who told you that? Ahhh the good ole macho line....if you dont like our manly way of doing things then go watch (insert any sport the manly men think is for sissys) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Razor Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Hey, people in Ottawa have to eat too!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tb4me Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Wow busy day in the Leafs thread..Scott Stvens was the master at what he did..Plain and simple..I enjoyed his game and still do when I watch highlights.However comparing kids hockey to the NHL that's just silly. Perhaps the "respect" issue stems from minor hockey but I seriously doubt it..Im 39 and played hockey for 25 years now. When i started there was no hitting, not untill you turned 14..Pee Wee I think it was. Mount Hamilton Minor Hockey Ass. The kids playing today will grow to be softies and extremely vulnerable when they hit semi pro and Pro. The "respect" that's spoken of will go out the window the first time another player takes a run at the "new kid" to knock him off the puck. The animosity and intensity involved at the elite level is something ill never know... These kids being taught respect in minor leagues will unfortunately find out real quick..It actually worries me.. Instead of teaching them respect they should be taught how to hit correctly, keep your head up and for the love of god pay attention to whom your passing it to. No blind suicide passes. That (imo) is where the kids should be educated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tb4me Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Jay Rosehill's take on Thornton interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) I don't like the thought of contact being taken out of kids hockey. When I played, contact started in PeeWee and went on from there. Peewee was what? 12 and up? Taking out of Peewee and even Bantam but allowing it in say Midget is a recipe for disaster. You need to learn how to give and take a hit when you're younger, just like riding a bike. You get those big boys up in Midget that have never hit before and you're going to end up with some serious injuries. I realize this is way off topic, but tb4me hit on a pretty good point. Teach the kids young and it won't be a big deal once they start getting bigger and stronger. Edited December 9, 2013 by BillM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbailey Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) I don't like the thought of contact being taken out of kids hockey. When I played, contact started in PeeWee and went on from there. Peewee was what? 12 and up? Taking out of Peewee and even Bantam but allowing it in say Midget is a recipe for disaster. You need to learn how to give and take a hit when you're younger, just like riding a bike. You get those big boys up in Midget that have never hit before and you're going to end up with some serious injuries. I realize this is way off topic, but tb4me hit on a pretty good point. Teach the kids young and it won't be a big deal once they start getting bigger and stronger. I agree, taking hitting out of minor hockey was a big mistake. When I played we were introduced to checking at 10 years old, and now unless you play rep you'll never be introduced to body checking and kids just get pushed from behind into the boards because they were never taught how to protect themselves in vulnerable areas on the ice because there wasn't supposed to be any body checking. Pretty hard to stop 16 year old boys from mixing it up haha. Anyway, play lacrosse, the sport hasn't been torn apart yet, likely many hockey leagues. Edited December 9, 2013 by JBailey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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