BillM Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I hate it when people only quote a part of post, that way they can skew you opinio. If you would take the time to read my post yoou would see that I do not think that there is a point in making rules that are impossible to enforce given the current amount of resources we devote to policing. Although the majority of citizens are law abiding, there is a minority that would realize that enforcement is lacking and would do what they want, much like the situation that exists now. While throwing around ideas and discussing this topic is worhtwhile, if we really value and want to protect our fishery we need to devote a lot more money to managing the resource. Unfotunately that would mean either taking money away from other departments, raising taxes overall, or taxing fisherman at a much higher rate. Personally I would be ok with raising taxes overall, or paying more for my fishing liscence, provided I knew the money was going to maintain the fishery. There have already been no kill sections implemented in certain rivers that have proven to help the fishery.. I'm just failing to see how having more CO's there to enforce those rules will have a direct impact on the fishery. Like you've said yourself, most people obey the law, even with a million CO's patrolling Ontario there will still be those few that don't. Does that mean we shouldn't implement things like no kill because it's doomed to fail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregoire Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 There have already been no kill sections implemented in certain rivers that have proven to help the fishery.. I'm just failing to see how having more CO's there to enforce those rules will have a direct impact on the fishery. Like you've said yourself, most people obey the law, even with a million CO's patrolling Ontario there will still be those few that don't. Does that mean we shouldn't implement things like no kill because it's doomed to fail? I Think that no kill zones in specific areas are a good idea in some situations. I doubt that imlementing a no kill zone in the GTA would be succesfull unless the policy was heavily enforced. I think that honest aglers would see dishonest anglers taking fish and not facing any consequences and some would choose to do the same, and may be tempted to disreguard regulations. I definitely would argue that there is not point in implementing things that are doomed to fail. Just think: How many people would buy a fishing licence if they knew that they would never be checked for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemper Posted October 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I Think that no kill zones in specific areas are a good idea in some situations. I doubt that imlementing a no kill zone in the GTA would be succesfull unless the policy was heavily enforced. I think that honest aglers would see dishonest anglers taking fish and not facing any consequences and some would choose to do the same, and may be tempted to disreguard regulations. I definitely would argue that there is not point in implementing things that are doomed to fail. Just think: How many people would buy a fishing licence if they knew that they would never be checked for one. I've been checked for a license one time...ONCE! I spend probably 65-85 days on the water each year, during spring and fall up to 4 time/week and often in popular spots. The MNR truck drove by me slowly last weekend and I was practically begging them to ask for my licence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I Think that no kill zones in specific areas are a good idea in some situations. I doubt that imlementing a no kill zone in the GTA would be succesfull unless the policy was heavily enforced. I think that honest aglers would see dishonest anglers taking fish and not facing any consequences and some would choose to do the same, and may be tempted to disreguard regulations. I definitely would argue that there is not point in implementing things that are doomed to fail. Just think: How many people would buy a fishing licence if they knew that they would never be checked for one. How many times do you get checked now? Do you still buy a license? I don't think you can implement an entire species as No kill, but little steps at a time... it does work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxie Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Concern is understood and appreciated but I have to absolutely say I do not support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocoda Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 LOL, you don't even support (or abide by) slots and possession limits! You had the "Holy Crap Cereal" for brekkie this morn eh... Maybe if the Fiberal Gov wasnt squandering away all our tax dollars for its on going shenanigans...we might have proper policing for the resource.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bob Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 LOL, you don't even support (or abide by) slots and possession limits! I TAKE WHAT I WANT..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I'm against No Kill areas. I'm against Fly Fishing Only. I'm against artificial only. And any other set of rules for the minority. I'm for more access for all anglers. Nothing makes me happier than a family catching a fish, taking it home, eating the fish and returning with roe bags and a few friends. That's value! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch312 Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) I've been checked for a license one time...ONCE! I spend probably 65-85 days on the water each year, during spring and fall up to 4 time/week and often in popular spots. The MNR truck drove by me slowly last weekend and I was practically begging them to ask for my licence. this past sunday in caledonia the CO made a special stop to check me and one other guy who had to wade about 75-100 yards to show his license. i had the pleasure of showing it again the next day too. i fished the grand for a good 15 years without seeing a single CO on the river and then i got checked two days in a row. weird coincidence i guess? it would be nice if there was a way to have appointed volunteer CO's after having went through minimal training. they could hand out fines for simple thing's like being over the limit, no license, littering, etc and strictly enforce those rules only leaving trained officers to deal with more complicated or dangerous issues. it would cost next to nothing to operate, generate huge revenue for the fish, clean up the trash (garbage and poachers), and improve our fisheries. but, i assume that would never happen? Edited October 31, 2012 by ch312 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocoda Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 this past sunday in caledonia the CO made a special stop to check me and one other guy who had to wade about 75-100 yards to show his license. i had the pleasure of showing it again the next day too. i fished the grand for a good 15 years without seeing a single CO on the river and then i got checked two days in a row. weird coincidence i guess? it would be nice if there was a way to have appointed volunteer CO's after having went through minimal training. they could hand out fines for simple thing's like being over the limit, no license, littering, etc and strictly enforce those rules only leaving trained officers to deal with more complicated or dangerous issues. it would cost next to nothing to operate, generate huge revenue for the fish, clean up the trash (garbage and poachers), and improve our fisheries. but, i assume that would never happen? you dont have to be able to write a ticket to say something or carry a garbage bag...just saying education doesnt always have to have a punishment attached to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 I'm against No Kill areas. I'm against Fly Fishing Only. I'm against artificial only. And any other set of rules for the minority. I'm for more access for all anglers. Nothing makes me happier than a family catching a fish, taking it home, eating the fish and returning with roe bags and a few friends. That's value! Luckily there are all kinds of those places in Ontario, we need more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmer Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 this past sunday in caledonia the CO made a special stop to check me and one other guy who had to wade about 75-100 yards to show his license. i had the pleasure of showing it again the next day too. i fished the grand for a good 15 years without seeing a single CO on the river and then i got checked two days in a row. weird coincidence i guess? it would be nice if there was a way to have appointed volunteer CO's after having went through minimal training. they could hand out fines for simple thing's like being over the limit, no license, littering, etc and strictly enforce those rules only leaving trained officers to deal with more complicated or dangerous issues. it would cost next to nothing to operate, generate huge revenue for the fish, clean up the trash (garbage and poachers), and improve our fisheries. but, i assume that would never happen? Probably a union issue! This would improve many services if permitted. Maybe the Liberals would donate their severences to hire a few more CO's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 I think the OP forgets when he was a teenager running up and down Oshawa Creek having the time of his life learning all this cool stuff. And when he was at university and couldn't go every day! WA Wa It's about access, somebody went to a whole bunch of meetings with the MNR, kept the presser on for more access, that was 30 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch312 Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 You can't have volunteers handing out provincial offences. Next thing you know someone will get a revenge violation for standing too close, or wearing the same colour waders... my post said "appointed volunteers that have went through minimal training" meaning volunteers wishing to take part would need to take some training on how to deal with people and enforce the few rules i mentioned. they would target those 3 specific violations and would hand out tickets only for those simple thing's that can't really be disputed. i wasn't suggesting that every john, joe and harry would be able to hand out tickets, only a select few for each water body that are hand picked by the MNR. lowering the number of people fishing over the limit, no license and fishing in sanctuary/closed areas would be very beneficial to our fisheries and are simple black and white regulations that could be enforced by someone with minimal training. but, like i said, i assume it would never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky or Specks Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 this past sunday in caledonia the CO made a special stop to check me and one other guy who had to wade about 75-100 yards to show his license. i had the pleasure of showing it again the next day too. i fished the grand for a good 15 years without seeing a single CO on the river and then i got checked two days in a row. weird coincidence i guess? it would be nice if there was a way to have appointed volunteer CO's after having went through minimal training. they could hand out fines for simple thing's like being over the limit, no license, littering, etc and strictly enforce those rules only leaving trained officers to deal with more complicated or dangerous issues. it would cost next to nothing to operate, generate huge revenue for the fish, clean up the trash (garbage and poachers), and improve our fisheries. but, i assume that would never happen? This was tried on the no kill stretch of the Grand. It didn't work because they had no power all they could do was phone for a CO and take notes. We already have that program its called tips. People break the law on the No Kill stretches of The Grand, Credit, Whiteman's and the Notty yet all these sections of river are healthier and producing more CPU then the equivalent non regulated rivers. If what you want is better catching opportunities No kill and strict slots are the proven solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch312 Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 you dont have to be able to write a ticket to say something or carry a garbage bag...just saying education doesnt always have to have a punishment attached to it... the majority of people breaking the rules know what they're doing and simply play stupid when confronted. you're suppose to know the rules before you play and this is something we all learn when we're kids. a speeder that claims to not now the speed limit shouldn't get a ticket if he didn't see the sign? a hunter shooting a deer with a gun in a bow only area is ok if he didn't read the regs? if i kept that sturgeon i caught it would be ok as long as i claimed i didn't know they're protected? sorry, but i believe adults should be held accountable for their actions. it's not like fishing regulations are something new Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch312 Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 This was tried on the no kill stretch of the Grand. It didn't work because they had no power all they could do was phone for a CO and take notes. We already have that program its called tips. People break the law on the No Kill stretches of The Grand, Credit, Whiteman's and the Notty yet all these sections of river are healthier and producing more CPU then the equivalent non regulated rivers. If what you want is better catching opportunities No kill and strict slots are the proven solution. no, what i'm suggesting was not tried on the grand as those volunteers couldn't hand out tickets. having people on the water that can't enforce anything and the tips line = complete waste of time, we all know this. thing's would be much different if people were being handed $125 tickets rather than warnings from angry anglers. lack of enforcement is the #1 reason we all see so many laws broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocoda Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 the majority of people breaking the rules know what they're doing and simply play stupid when confronted. you're suppose to know the rules before you play and this is something we all learn when we're kids. a speeder that claims to not now the speed limit shouldn't get a ticket if he didn't see the sign? a hunter shooting a deer with a gun in a bow only area is ok if he didn't read the regs? if i kept that sturgeon i caught it would be ok as long as i claimed i didn't know they're protected? sorry, but i believe adults should be held accountable for their actions. it's not like fishing regulations are something new I disagree with the convoluted highlighted statement...but i guess i kind of agree in a convoluted way...if "your supposed to know the rules before you play" then the people your confronting arent playing stupid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Looks like Kemper got what he wanted.. 7 pages of dribble. Way too early for this lads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecmilley Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Looks like Kemper got what he wanted.. 7 pages of dribble. Way too early for this lads! I am with you wayne, damn steelheaders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 This is much better then a thread about reeling in wet socks on the Bay of Quinte! /stirs pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemper Posted November 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Looks like Kemper got what he wanted.. 7 pages of dribble. Way too early for this lads! Wasn't trolling on this one Wayne, I was genuinely interested in the responses. Also wasn't looking for steelhead specific answers, and never expected 7 pages of "dribble". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecmilley Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 stuff like this i am talking about. fresh kawartha walley fillets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemper Posted November 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 stuff like this i am talking about. fresh kawartha walley fillets That looks fantastic. I'm almost 100% C&R, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy a Kawartha walleye fry from time to time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecmilley Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 or of course a mess of these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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