John Bacon Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 My understanding is that the towing capacity is for combined weight towed and in the vehicle, which included passengers. Thus, if you have 700 pounds of people and 300 pounds of gear then your 3,500 capacity is down to 2,500 pounds. I am not sure where curb wheight comes into play. My wife owns a Rav4 and it has been a great vehicle. However, I wouldn't consider towing 1,300kg with it. I consider it to be pretty good on gas but my other vehicle is a GMC Jimmy so that is relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icefisherman Posted April 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 John you are the first one here reporting of actually owning one of those (in my opinion) fantastic machines...is hers the V6 version? If so what mileage is she getting out of it realisticaly? Cheers, Ice Fisherman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 No, it is the 4 cylinder. I am not sure what the exact mileage is... but I know that it is better than my Jimmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbles Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Curb Weight is the total weight of the vehicle, no passengers or cargo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunatic Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 My Jimmy has been an awesome workhorse with close to 300,000k on her but she is just a pig on gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smally21 Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 just some reading likely been stated already.. . A vehicle's GCWR is a specific weight determined by the manufacturer to be the maximum weight of a loaded tow vehicle and its attached loaded trailer. The total weight of the tow vehicle and trailer should never exceed the manufacturer's listed GCWR [source: Ford Motor Company]. Similar to a vehicle's gross vehicle weight rating, or GVWR, the gross combination weight rating is a specific maximum weight limit determined by the manufacturer. The major difference is that the GCWR takes into account two individual (yet attached) vehicles -- the tow vehicle and the trailer. However, the gross combination weight rating definition doesn't really state how the weight rating is calculated. According to Ford Motor Company, the GCWR is calculated by adding the following weights together: The vehicle's listed curb weight, allowable payload, driver and passenger weight and trailer weight [source: Ford Motor Company]. It's important to remember that the GCWR is not an actual measurement of the weight of a tow vehicle and a trailer, but rather the combined maximum weight limit that the manufacturer has set for the two vehicles once attached. We towed all of our trailers and boats with half ton trucks. exceeded gcwr's daily. sometimes out spare "pathfinder" would join the cause and it was a very capable tow machine...vacationed with our 27' Doral in tow much more than it should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flappn Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) Well guye appreciate all the input and opinions here...so far based on your suggestions and on my list of requirements it seems the three top choices are: 1) Toyota RAV4 V6 - no one has said anything bad about it. Glowing reviews everywhere. And I have been following this vehicle ever since it came out in 2006. Amazing top quality engine, 269 hp, and 246 lb-ft of torque. Very economical too...with about the same mileage (19 mpg city and 27 mpg highway) the 4 cyl has, but much much more powerful. Very good look (wife should be happy;-) 4WD so no problem pulling the boat at any ramp under any conditions. By the way I have never had issue with the Pathfinder in that department. With that motor and 35oo Lbs towing capacity I should be laughing pulling my boat and I bet it'll have much better economy than the Pathfinder. Only if I can find a good deal on one. Maybe from the US....as they seem much cheaper there though made next door in Woodstock. 2) Toyota Tacoma. Most of the above applies here as well. Very highly regarded vehicle...never had a truck before but if any this maybe the one I feel good about. Towing shouldn't be a problem with 5000 lbs towing capacity. And again I am sure the millage will be better than Pathfinder. Same applies here though - good finding a good deal on one. 3) May have to consider going back to Pathfinder or XTerra mainly because of the lower prices...hope they have improved their economy in the last 10 years though.... I have heard some horror stories about the Jeeps...good things about the Ford Trucks but it'll be a huge jump for me to go to that kind of a vehicle, not to mentioned it is US made...which is not that big of an attractant in my books...so...not much other choice left really.... Cheers, Ice Fisherman The only thing I have heard about the Rav4 v6 is that it shares the same motor with the v6 Camry which was rushed for Nascar and blows Cams. I have a friend that works at Toyota who services our 4 cylinder Rav and tells me every time to be thankful I purchased the 4 vs the 6. Toyota tacome is ROCK SOLID!! Nothing else to say. I have a 1998 Toyota 4runner with 406K and still going strong..... Edited April 18, 2012 by Flappn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icefisherman Posted April 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Toyota tacome is ROCK SOLID!! Nothing else to say. Lot of people have said good words about the towing capabilities of Toyota Tacoma, but none of them has said anything about its fuel economy....and I am afraid they cannot say lots of good things about that? Possibly as bad as my old Pathfinder , i.e.gas hog big time....lots of vehicles out there have huge towing capabilities, my problem is almost ALL of them are terrible on gas unfortunately though... So we need to compare fully all characteristics not just one.... with gas soon to be $1.50/l I am not sure what I value more....couple thousand lbs towing capacity that maybe ovekill considering infrequent and short haul use on my side, or much much better gas mileage that keeps money in my pocket weekly....different priorities, I guess.... Cheers, Ice Fisherman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blarg Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 If fuel prices are such a concern im sure you could save by not boating.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raf Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Ya gotta pay to play. The Tacoma will be better on fuel than your pathfinder but it's definately no Rav4 in that dept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bob Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 The Taco doesn't get much better then my Tundra....that's why I went with the full size V-8 truck.....once you have a V-8 it's hard to go back to a silly six....until it's time to fill up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icefisherman Posted April 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) If fuel prices are such a concern im sure you could save by not boating.. Thanks for your extremely valuable contribution to this thread. Cheers, Ice Fisherman Edited April 18, 2012 by icefisherman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigdritchie Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 I wouldn't consider a Rav4 for towing anything bigger than a 14 foot tinny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish4Eyes Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) You simply can't get the best of both worlds icefisherman. You compromise safety for fuel economy if you tow with a vehicle that is cutting it close to the max tow rating or you spend big money at the pumps if you buy something that can tow the boat with ease. Not sure how well it does on fuel when it tows or how reliable it is but the Cherokee 3.0 CRD might be a good option for you and there should be plenty coming off lease as we speak. It has a benz diesel in it and If I remember correctly its rated to tow 7000lb+ and is rated at 29ish mpg (not towing). Stay far far away from the liberty CRD, the motors were a nightmare. A simple google search will back up what I'm saying. I thought of you yesterday when I saw a Rav4 on the highway and thought, that hatch sure as heck does not have any room for anything. You could barely fit the weeks groceries in the hatch. Something to consider when going on longer trips with the kids. I'm not a big fan of storing anything in the boat when trailering, especially considering I do not have a proper snap on cover. Edited April 18, 2012 by Fish4Eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smally21 Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) my tacoma averages 19-20 MPG combined, as do most on the toyota nation forum. a full highway run doesn't show much improvement. drops to about 15-16MPG pulling a 3000lb load. handles it well but not like the 1500s i had before. owning the tacoma has resulted in moderate savings over the full size im used to driving. considering its smaller bed, interior and reduction in overall towing ability its unlikely i would do it again over a full size. but nothing but good things to say great vehicle. all the research in the world isnt going to unlock the gas company handcuffs. drive what you like, what you can afford. EVERYBODY has tried to find a cheap way to get their boat to the lake. if their was an answer youd have it by the fourth page. fishing trips all start at the gas station. the long ones often end there too. Edited April 18, 2012 by smally21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icefisherman Posted April 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) Fish4Eyes, I have a feeling most people when talking about RAV4 are making comments based on what they've seen or know of the 4 cyl version....heck many don't even know it comes with V6 as well....and may have never seen one on the road....not that ,many of them really....night and day difference in size, power, towing everything....in most cases people driving on the road see a car from the back...and you can not tell easily if it is a 4 or 6 cyl. RAV4 only looking at the back....at the front it has a small V6 attached to the radiator grill area...and it does look bigger but it may not be easily seen from the road. Definately has a lof of room compared to the 4 cyl one....If you Google it and read some reviews you'll see nothing but great reviews of the V6 version....extremely high resale value too...I think most people commenting against it here might be suprised when they see me towing my Lund with it.... ;-)) By the way I was loading the Lund with camping stuff even when using the Pathfinder to tow it with ;-) I've suffered so much at the gas pumps in the last 5-6 years with the PATHFINDER that if anything I am ready to error on the side of the fuel economy this time....paying $200 for a trip for Erie eyes is simply unsustainable.... Cheers, Ice Fisherman Edited April 18, 2012 by icefisherman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunatic Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) The way I see it is if you want to Save gas towing go with a v8 because it will take less effort to do so. Want to save gas in town with out towing go 4 or 6 cyl. So the question is which do you do most often? You said earlier you go short distances so I'd just go with the smaller engine. I wouldn't over look GM SUVs or trucks, they've been doing this a long time and all of mine have been great. My 93 full-size had just over 500,000km on her before I sold it. It's worth looking into all options and most companies. Edited April 18, 2012 by Lunatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) I mean seriously, I don't think you are going to find ANYONE, including a rav owner(I asked one) that would say its safe to tow 3k pounds with a rav, v6 or 4 cyl. For a short one off, yah maybe, but for a regularly planned event, not even close to safe. Plain and simple 3000 pounds is a good chunk to tow, add your family to mix and some luggage and you you are into a 4 runner, Pathfinder, Xterra, Liberty, wrangler, cherokee, Pilot, highlander etc... These are all capable of safely towing that much weight. Here is a perfectly acceptable comparison. I used to have a Durango. Rated for 10,000 pounds towing capacity. I once towed a 7500 pound trailer with it. Would I have ever considered towing 9000 pounds? or 9500 pounds or 10,000 pounds.... HELLL NOOO!!! Not a friggin chance. When you reach to limit of your towing rating you are asking for trouble. Yo may be fine on a few trips, but that one time you are going down a big hill at 80km's an hour, and you have no choice but to ginger your brake a few times becaus eyour engine revs can't keep your speed in check, then at the bottom of the hill a jerk in a honda civic cuts you off and you grab a mit full or brakes and there is nothing there, your life and passengers lives will flash before your eyes right quick. If you're towing 3,000 pounds, look for a tow vehicle capable of pulling at least 4500 - 5000 pounds. This will give you enough headroom to have passengers and luggage. Of course if your priority is to go strictly by whats on the sticker versus whats generally accepted as safe go ahead and do it and don't look back. If your primary concern is to save gas, then your primary concern can't be towing 3000 pounds. The two objectives just don't meet up. To tow that much weight around is going to put you into the 20mpg or less grouping. Some mid size crew cab trucks may hit 20mpg on the highway or maybe even some hibrid style gas cars, maybe a diesle. The reality is you are facing physics. Weight being pulled needs to be supported by suspension, tranny, coolers, stronger axles, steering systems, big vented brakes, strong frames etc... All of this leads to poor gas mileage. As much as you quickly dismissed a libery. That is exactly why I went with one. It gave me the ability to seat 5 passengers, Tow a boat safely, and had the best fuel mileage of a city streetable(means no big trucks) vehicle. A Highlander is the one possible option as I believe they have a 5k pound towing capacity for some models. They unfortunatly are out of my price range. Thats why I went with a Liberty. They are dirt cheap. I bought a 2005 with 105km's on it for 5 grand. I was looking at 10 grand for a similar spec higlander, That 5 grand difference is a whole lot of gas money, and by the time I turn the liberty around in a few years I won't have saved nearly that much on gas. JMHO of course, take it for what you will. My last word on this thread is posted here on this link... its a list of vehicles that can two 5000 pounds. This is my rec based your your requirement of towin a boat that weighs 3,000 pounds... http://autos.aol.com/car-finder/style-suv/5000-lb-towing-capacity/5-passenger/ EDIT You can add in a price match, hit under 30 grand, and then sort by MPG Highest to lowest. and go from there. Edited April 18, 2012 by jedimaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Here is another link all pre sorted for you... Vehicles with a starting prices of under 30grand, 4x4 or AWD, 4000 pound minimum towing capacity, sorted by fuel mileage... http://autos.aol.com/car-finder/style-suv/price-under-30000/four+.all-wheel-drive/4000-lb-towing-capacity/5-passenger/sort-gpm/ I believe most if not all of these have been recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Lk Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Fish4Eyes, I have a feeling most people when talking about RAV4 are making comments based on what they've seen or know of the 4 cyl version....heck many don't even know it comes with V6 as well....and may have never seen one on the road....not that ,many of them really....night and day difference in size, power, towing .and it does look bigger but it may not be easily seen from the road. Definately has a lof of room compared to the 4 cyl one.... Cheers, Ice Fisherman There is no difference in size, any Rav4 with a 4 or 6 cyl is the same size in that model year. It sounds like you have your mind made up,why ask for advise,lots of good points brought up that you choose to ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icefisherman Posted April 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) It sounds like you have your mind made up,why ask for advise,lots of good points brought up that you choose to ignore. I wish I had made up my mind...but isn't it the purpose of this (and any other similar discoussion) precisely that - the asking person to make up his mind?!? Making up one's mind doesn't mean agreeing with any particular opinion...just considering them in the process. Not ignoring any points, just trying to compare all options fully....not just the towing capacity and not just the economy....but all of the various characteristics. It is obvious more powerful vehicles have much worse economy....and the economical ones suffer with the towing parameters....so finding the golden middle for ME will mean I have then made up my mind Cheers, Ice Fisherman Edited April 18, 2012 by icefisherman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 The more I dig into this, and to be honest this is the last post I am going to post in here, is in reference to this thread. Some very good points to read in that thread here are just a few... 1) Manufacturers don't account for any passengers or fuel when determining towing capacity so you MUST take that into account. 2) Plan on 80% of your rated towing capacity for the safe weight limit of your trailer, as this will give you room to fill up your tank of gas, passengers and luggage. 3) Go on the side of caution when towing. Perhaps consider selling the boat and getting a lighter one. This will save you money on the water as well as when towing. http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463/how-much-can-i-safely-tow-with-my-99-lincoln-navigator-19039.html As for my rec, it sounds like you have your heart set on a toyota, no biggie they make great vehicles. Grab a highlander and your off to the races. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icefisherman Posted April 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) Heey Jedi, Your posts have been really informative and the truth always comes out of arguments...so I greatly appreciate your input. With numbers to back up your points...love such discussions. Yes I do love Japaneese vehicles in general (and hate american;-) and if I could find a good deal on Highlander it'll be on my driveway by the weekend....I don't have a single objection aainst it just a matter of fitting in into the budget. P.S. Just to provoke you to post again ;-)) what about Honda Ridgeline? No one mentioned it so far but it seems capable towing vehicle...again fuel economy aside Cheers, Ice Fisherman Edited April 18, 2012 by icefisherman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) Yep thats why I ended up with a liberty and not a highlander, or else there would be a higlander in my driveway. I considered a Rav but, I just didn't feel safe having that as my primary to vehicle. For me it came down to this. I expect to keep my Liberty for 3 years. I currently spend about 200 per month in gas with it.Now a highlander would have saved me maybe 10 percent on fuel. Thats 240 dollars a year savings over 3 years, thats 720 dollars. an equal year and km higlander would have been about 5,000 dollars more. The way I figured it, I bought the liberty and I am sticking 120 dollars a month more in my pocket every month including the extra gas I spend over the highlander for the next 3 years. Thats enough for a couple new rods, some extra rsp money, and a new gun for the hunting season, as well as more gas for the boat. Just something to consider. You could even put that extra money buying a domestic, and stick it in an TFSA until you need it for repairs and you will still come out ahead. As for the ridgeline its a pretty decent looking vehicle, not sure if it came before the chevy one that looks similar. Mind you the honda is a unibody truck so its not going to be a like a turck but likely much better than an suv. Edited April 18, 2012 by jedimaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muskymatt Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Stay away from the Trailblazer, mine(both of them) were lemons, sucked the gas and were expensive. I've just replace my TB with a new Silverado, 5.3l, 6 speed auto, z71 series 4x4. Amazing truck and get 11l per 100km or better mileage. Tows my 20' boat like it's not even there. Get an extended or crew cab and it'll do all applications. Gm/Chev have great discounts and incentives. Worth buying new imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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