The Muzzling of Science

[Grimace]

Completely agree.

[bushart]

Unfortunately calling my MP does zippo

 

She's the Con member who did'nt think search and rescue was a big deal for the east coast---cause we don't have it for the Ottawa River

 

I'd get more satisfaction talking to a mailbox

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

in the long term business can not succeed without the people to work for them, and consume their product/utilize their service. when push come to shove, this corruption will be toppled. it's unfortunate that it's going to take 4 years but in the meantime i'll be sharpening my sword daily.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Dr. Salvelinus

[Snidley]

Funny thing is fishing for millions of salmon either commercially or running operations for recreational fisherman constitutes business too. Sustainable business, utilizing the definitive sustainable resource , massive salmon runs. I know it's happening I just can't fathom why our government's would pick a foreign agribusiness with a sketchy past, poor profitability and a minute employment base over a traditionally lucrative business run by some of Canada's wealthiest businessmen. Why would these businesses allow this to happen. I really don't get it.

[Oggie]

I understand the need to keep a lid on employees asto what they say and to whom they speak. Once the study is published (thankfully the govt hasn't blocked publishing) the scientist has a right/responsibility to discuss the conclusions. Freedom of speech is what the world defends everyday.

 

The Harper govt is too controling in many aspects of governance IMO.

[troutologist]

I understand the need to keep a lid on employees asto what they say and to whom they speak. Once the study is published (thankfully the govt hasn't blocked publishing) the scientist has a right/responsibility to discuss the conclusions. Freedom of speech is what the world defends everyday.

 

The Harper govt is too controling in many aspects of governance IMO.

 

 

I wouldn't be so sure about this. Scientific journals have taken notice.

 

See the article in Nature

Edited March 29, 2012 by Jay Hamilton

[bigugli]

Funny thing is fishing for millions of salmon either commercially or running operations for recreational fisherman constitutes business too. Sustainable business, utilizing the definitive sustainable resource , massive salmon runs. I know it's happening I just can't fathom why our government's would pick a foreign agribusiness with a sketchy past, poor profitability and a minute employment base over a traditionally lucrative business run by some of Canada's wealthiest businessmen. Why would these businesses allow this to happen. I really don't get it.

Today's corporate business plan looks for quick profits. They do not see long term strategies. The same reason that most family businesses have sold out by the 3rd generation. They want the reward without the blood, sweat and tears, and really don't give a hoot about tomorrow, so they simply sell out.

Politically, as long as the party coffers are kept full, neither the Grits or Tories are going to care about the long term consequence.

Edited March 29, 2012 by bigugli

[blarg]

What does muzzling mean? Is the science not available for scrutiny or does the government just not want its employes playing lobbyist in the media against its policies? I know i wasn't too happy when government employees like the chiefs of police were on television lying about the gun registry, no im not saying that the scientists are lying, but considering most public servants likely don't vote or support the conservatives, and likely many of them were hired and grew up professionally under liberal governments, just how unbiased do we think they are? I mean they are people like the rest of us. Was there no muzzling of scientists under liberal governments? Were they all free to say whatever they wished at any time or is there some increased backlash about this simply because it comes from a government they generally dislike, a government with different priorities, one that isn't going to feather their nest?

 

Well i have no idea, but it is really amusing to watch some people here argue from a clearly biased point of view, claiming they know what Canada is supposed to be, ie no war machines for us! how dare we!, and at the same time calling out others for their underlying beliefs. We clearly all have biases, but to simply believe that scientists are being muzzled to the extent that the country is being harmed any more than in the past and without asking some questions is just asking to be misinformed.

 

Is all science good science, is all science worthy of our confidence, are all scientists? Are all government decisions simply backward and unthinking because you find cause to disagree? Neither. I would hope that the government takes the science seriously, i hope that it isn't ignored even if they are telling scientists in our employ to not speak publicly, i don't know if they are, and i don't know they aren't. I suspect that if we are all honest about our biases most of us would agree that we dont know.

 

In any case i don't suspect non action on the part of the current government in the case of the BC salmon farming will be any different than the non action by previous governments, in four years someone else may have a chance to change things. Some of you seem to think that Canada will be destroyed by then, a part of the USA, how little credit you give this country.

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

most of my coworkers were conservative. they were guys (and a few gals) not unlike most of us. most of them hunted or fished, or both. every single person i worked with, regardless of political affiliation believed in what we were doing as a team. there was no political slant to our work. it was all about numbers and protocol. as resource users it was a "feel good" sort of job.

 

thinking that government scientists are all liberal leaning, cardigan wearing, granola eaters just isn't an accurate assessment in my experience. but i appreciate your respectful dialogue on the subject. it's easier to discuss when i don't have to be ducking mudpies.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Dr. Salvelinus

[limeyangler]

I see today they are going ahead to changes to the fisheries act and back dooring it in with the budget--essentially fast tracking environmental assesment

 

Likely the same method used in the Gulf just before lives were lost and oil spewed forever into the GOM

 

No these are not your mom and dad's Prog Cons---it's corporate backed lawmaking--and we're just the farm hands on their own personal plantation called Canada

 

 

 

 

Thats it right there.

[Nipfisher]

I think I'll go cook some smelts...

 

Mmmmmmmm. Smelts.

 

Were they Red, Blue, Orange, or Green?

Did you catch them on the right side of the creek or the left? Maybe you had to wear waders and walk in the middle to catch them?

 

 

 

[torco]

OFC should change to the politics thread, we have been talking more politics than fishing lately.

 

That said this is an important issue and one that is been raised by many scientists inside and outside of the country. I don't think it is a stretch to say that the current government is not a big fan of science and statistics as it gets in the way of ideology, its funny how that works.

 

On another point about the cbc being a lefty bias reporting agency, I am not sure I buy it. How does one explain the Dragons Den, Lang & O'leary, or Coaches Corner?

[Jer]

 

 

On another point about the cbc being a lefty bias reporting agency, I am not sure I buy it. How does one explain the Dragons Den, Lang & O'leary, or Coaches Corner?

 

 

Because they need to have at least a few shows that bring in some ratings and revenue. They can only beg so much from the taxpayer.

[Snidley]

I have to agree with Torco I don't see much if any liberal bias at CBC. Occasionally Arliene Dickenson does some less than financially prudent investing based on touchy feely input, but, she turns a buck with it as well. Any reporting I have seen has always just shared basically the same facts the other media outlets reported. Sun TV might be somewhat biased but they are clearly not reporters, they are pundits, which is a much different thing. I don't think the Sun personalities even attempt to call what they do reporting.

 

As far as chiefs of police are concerned, they have good reason to address what they feel is an ongoing threat to their cops in not knowing if a household has firearms or not. Bottom line is that domestic disputes are highly unpredictable and are situations where cool heads are not prevailing. It is valuable to know if there is any sort of firearm available to a potential perp especially in those domestic situations. Unfortunately the Liberals made a complete botch of the whole thing but I certainly hope Canada never gets to the point of the USA where civilians can stockpile virtually any arsenal they want up to and including 50 cal sniper cannons and mega clip semi auto anti personnel weapons.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Snidley

[Rod Caster]

The cbc is reporting the budget live right now on the radio... The other stations are playing lady gaga and loverboy.

[Jer]

 

 

As far as chiefs of police are concerned, they have good reason to address what they feel is an ongoing threat to their cops in not knowing if a household has firearms or not. Bottom line is that domestic disputes are highly unpredictable and are situations where cool heads are not prevailing. It is valuable to know if there is any sort of firearm available to a potential perp especially in those domestic situations.

 

 

I think the cops on the street would disagree. They ALWAYS assume there may be weapon present, regardless of what the fairy-tale registry may say.

 

To the same point, why should an officer approach the house of a law abiding, gun owning citizen any different than thay would any other citizen's home. Seems to be a double-standard in your world where non-gun owners should be treated different than legal gun owners.

 

 

But, thank God, that's all water under the bridge.

[Nipfisher]

The cbc is reporting the budget live right now on the radio... The other stations are playing lady gaga and loverboy.

 

 

I bet you`re listening to the other stations right now. Aren`t those your 2 favourite bands / singers?

[Rod Caster]

I bet you`re listening to the other stations right now. Aren`t those your 2 favourite bands / singers?

 

They are no Justin Beber, but I can't get enough of that latest Loverboy song that plays once a day!

[jedimaster]

Unfortunately the Liberals made a complete botch of the whole thing but I certainly hope Canada never gets to the point of the USA where civilians can stockpile virtually any arsenal they want up to and including 50 cal sniper cannons and mega clip semi auto anti personnel weapons.

 

Is there a difference between a pump action shotgun with a 25 round drum magazine and a .223 semi auto rifle with a 20 round magazine, or a .223 semi auto rifle with a 5 round magazine, or a double barrel double trigger side by side shotgun, or a .50 calibre Bolt action rifle?

 

Some of these are prohibited, restricted and non restricted. I bet you may be surprised at what gets what classification. We have gotten way way off topic here but. I think either way no matter what I had or didn't have, I would think police should enter my home the very same way they would enter any other home.

 

If there is a registered gun in a house, does that mean the officer enters the house with his sidearm unholstered with the safety off or if there is no gun registered should he enter the house with his gun locked away in his trunk? I don't get it.

[Snidley]

The cops live in a world of aberrant behavior usually fueled by booze. As I said domestic calls are very scarey and under the duress of a painful domestic situation lubricated by alcohol "law abiding" citizens can and do go ape. Same goes for individuals that feel bullied, alienated etc.There's remorse afterward but by then the damage is done. The damage is mitigated if the perp does not have automatic or mega clip weaponry at their disposal. America is the test case that exemplifies this fact virtually every day

[blarg]

The cops live in a world of aberrant behavior usually fueled by booze. As I said domestic calls are very scarey and under the duress of a painful domestic situation lubricated by alcohol "law abiding" citizens can and do go ape. Same goes for individuals that feel bullied, alienated etc.There's remorse afterward but by then the damage is done. The damage is mitigated if the perp does not have automatic or mega clip weaponry at their disposal. America is the test case that exemplifies this fact virtually every day

 

And yet there are more guns than ever in the US, record sales over the last few years in fact, and the murder rate is declining, so..more guns, and less murders, now im not suggesting a correlation of more guns = less murders, but it does seem to put a crimp in the often said and never proved theory you're espousing. But hey, the irony that these sort of theories pop up in a thread about science is at least amusing. But no, no one is biased here.

[jedimaster]

The cops live in a world of aberrant behavior usually fueled by booze. As I said domestic calls are very scarey and under the duress of a painful domestic situation lubricated by alcohol "law abiding" citizens can and do go ape. Same goes for individuals that feel bullied, alienated etc.There's remorse afterward but by then the damage is done. The damage is mitigated if the perp does not have automatic or mega clip weaponry at their disposal. America is the test case that exemplifies this fact virtually every day

 

So how does a gun registry help to prevent a person from using a gun in there Ape like state? And furthermore are you now referring to an automatic firearm? An automatic firearm is Prohibited in Canada. and Thus illegal. So if you have one it is not registered in a registry as you can't own it.

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

so much ground to be made on a marijuana reform/gun control reform compromise between the left and right. too bad both sides have their heads so far up their backside they can only tow party lines and seldom speak in logical terms.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Dr. Salvelinus

[Snidley]

My point exactly. I said I'm glad we don't permit that type of weapon in the hands of civilians in Canada. My further point was that Chiefs of Police were and are interested in the safety of their men. They are on the front lines of the thing and the peanut gallery is interested in having a gun collection unbeknownst the police. Like there's going to be a revolution /invasion and guys are going to hold out with their hunting gear. I also admit that the implementation was amateurish and a laughable exercise by incompetents and, as is often the case, a valid idea was done in by the implementation. The devil really is in the details.

[leighfns]

Harper and the rest of his Young Earth Creationists need to go.... When your science minister will not publicly say he believes in evolution we have a problem. Soon we will be like the states where it is impossible to become a politician without religious affiliation. Next will come the war on drugs and making same sex marriages illegal.