Ganaraska fishway

[Hairpy]

Paul , I don't ever see a roe ban happening around here. Fish eat eggs that's what they do so we use eggs for bait quite simple. At least there's a 2 fish limit on the river. A lot of people also use tonnes of flies , beads , pink worms etc and even "crickhoppers" lol! But they all have their time and place too. I use those items usually when I run out of roe.

[solopaddler]

ouch painful read

 

Brian once out of the fish it has to be fertilized within a few minutes, after that the membrane hardens and is no longer viable

 

Paul ( snidley ) what ever your name is......we get it you hate organic/ bait anglers, you hate craa ofah the mnr and everyone in between.

You eat dandlions and drink soy milk from sustainable organic farms, while looking down the glasses at us carnivore's. You eat nothing with a face or heart, we totally get it your the OFC representation for P3TA.....we totally get it. You like to post information that in many cases is false or speculative at best, we get that too.

 

You dont like to do any form or conservation work, yet love to use the resource as much as you can, we get that too....and boy do you like to spount your anti everything agenda on the internet while getting banned off forums ...we get that too.

WE GET YOUR POINT...we really really get it. Thank you for speaking up did I say we hear your message

 

Harvesting fish from a sustainable fishery is a great source of food and comfort, we get you love soy milk and are a macro vegan, because if your not what a complete hypocrite but hey we get it maybe its pot stirring or simply too much pot, of course organically grown with no animal testing involved...

Harvesting fish to eat and use thier eggs as bait is legal, an accepted practice and while in certain cases not right due to the fragiity of a fishery its still within someones right, we get that too....

please go away, I think we all get that message too

 

 

Louis I get it too. The only thing I don't eat is cows and pigs out of concern for my personal health. You on the other hand eat everything, way too much of everything I believe. By the way Louis by the sound of your earlier post it looks like you and CRAA are preparing the ground for some backtracking on Atlantics. Oh well it wasn't your money. By the way if guys feel the need for it and they don't mind the mess worms, grubs, minnows, cut bait are all a-ok by me. Just not spawn since I would like to see all this conservation work pay off before the egg collectors determine that one early run means local tribs are ship shape and 2 a trip hens becomes SOP.

 

 

 

I find this amusing and sad. Lou I'm in your corner 100%.

 

There are many who likely don't know this, but Louis is heavily involved with CRAA and has given many hundreds of hours of time to the cause over the years.

 

Louis is also a dedicated steelhead fisherman who also happens to fish with roe.

 

Mr. Snyders comments are akin to a small brat of a boy poking a stick into a hornets nest just to see what might happen.

 

He obviously knows what Lou's contributions have been to the fishery, but that counts for nothing apparantly. Even in the face of the largest run of WILD steelhead on the Credit in years.

 

It's no wonder Louis snapped. It's a thankless job these guys do most of the time.

 

At the very least guys like Lou and Joseph (who's also heavily involved as well...thanks Joe!) deserve a pat on the back.

 

NOT some internet fool attacking them personally and spouting off their insane rhetoric.

Edited March 26, 2012 by solopaddler

[Hairpy]

Thanks for the kind words Mike ! Yeah we keep inviting Snidley to come and help with the fish ladder , the hatchery , the boat launch, the tree planting and many other events but no he's too busy whinning from behind his computer

 

Joseph

[aniceguy]

Mike I ll donate some of my gooey spawn sacs to you next time

[BillM]

Mike's probably got 400-500lbs of roe in the freezer by now according to some people in this thread :rofl2:

[Sinker]

I just clued in that Snidley is Paul Snyder. I remember him spewing this crap back in the late 80's early 90's when metro east steelhead and salmon fisherman was just starting. I don't think he came out to any of our rehab jobs on duffins back then either. I can't remember his buddies name though....Burt? I forget, that was a long time ago, when there were more fish than fisherman! Duffins used to get a run of over 5000 fish back then, and the ganny was averaging around 10-12,000. The good ole days. I haven't fished the tribs seriously since the mid 90's, and I don't miss it one bit!!

 

Anyways....carry on....

 

S.

[Snidley]

I have held my opinion on roe/ stocking for a long time but the '80's might be a stretch since I lived in BC for most of that decade. Certainly lots of people in BC held that opinion in the '80's, so much so that not only is roe and some cases even scent banned now but killing Steelheads is not permitted. In fact all samonoids are highly protected in BC where ANNUAL limits of even stocked salmonoids is enforced with tags that must be filled out on retaining any salmon. User pays is enforced by making sure that salmon/steelhead anglers must buy the tag or tags just to fish for these beauties. This is how sophisticated enforcement and management is paid for. My opinion on roe is now officially held in all of Canada except for Ontario. Some US states also now hold the same opinion on roe and US states virtually ALL have strong stocking programs for ALL of their gamefish. In addition New York state is winning the overall competition with pen rearing/ superior imprinting drawing not only their own migratory fish back to their estuaries for their anglers but drawing away fish from Ontario, Pennsylvania and Ohio as well. Ohio and Pennsylvania are not really suffering badly and they still have tons of fish because their stocking programs are so successful that they have what can only be described as an overabundance of trout to begin with. Ontario, not so much. We do have great tree lines in Ontario though. Thanks CRAA. I also remember lots of fish here, and not that long ago, all supported by stocking. I wonder what happened to them? Could it be that some guys married to a primitive tradition killed most them because they couldn't figure out a way to catch their "numbers" without using the future of the fishery for bait all the while throwing their support behind a government ministry and conservation club that opted for tree planting rather than more aggressive measures? And any bonus option for pelagic enhancement... lets spend that $$ on a "native" fish that were here 150 years ago. A fish that would have to be stocked AND is about the is single most expensive fish possible to stock successfully. All brought to you by your friends at MNR,OFAH, CRAA and an Aussie winery. So we are now stocking...a fish that is the most expensive possible to stock successfully and with the least possible chance of success...unless you spend most of your money to do so...with continual stocking. Someone wrote a book about these kinds of situations, Catch 22 I believe it was called. Could it also be that these same guys are falling all over themselves over one run, on one river, in one year? A year with the warmest March on record that has created a push just when the anglers happen to be on stream. We shall see how this plays out over the next few years. The MNR has decided that mainly based on the "success" of the Atlantic program and the "sustainable" philosophy espoused by CRAA and their accolytes to open a larger single egg rearing hatchery that will house the sainted Atlantic, some steelhead and Chinnook salmon all in one facility. Essentially this is all eggs/one basket approach. This approach is also contrary to the way things are done on the west coast and in the US where multiple facilities hedging the risk of disease is considered prudent. I hope it does not happen but single large facilities housing the vast majority of your already minimal stocking options seems to me to be risky, but only if you believe that aggressive human intervention into a fishery that is mainly centered in an urban setting of 4 million people is a requirement. Hope I'm wrong but given "sustainability" as the over riding philosophy of your approach then not restricting bait options in one single case, spawn, seems to me to be ridiculous. If you decide you are married to fishing with eggs, and Ontario's authorities and most Ontario anglers are, then it seems to me that aggressive stocking tactics are required. Personally I suggest both sustainable practices including no roe but allowing other organics, no harvest at all in GTA or any other vulnerable watersheds combined with aggressive stocking (of optimal strain freshly harvested from wild fish not brood stock) would be best and would create a fishery like the US or Argentina, or BC. and would also insure the overall fishery from dramatic or even catastrophic downturns that need not exist but under current management are the norm.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Snidley

[Hairpy]

Paul if you think new york and Penn are doing well you are a moron , when is the last time the Catt fished well. And no offense to erie fish but they are a far cry from Lake O wild steelhead I wont even bother going down that way anymore. Stocked fish are boring the end...

[esoxansteel]

Mike's probably got 400-500lbs of roe in the freezer by now according to some people in this thread

 

 

 

LMAO I was thinkin the same thing, im almost out, i know who to ask now, maybe he has 2 freezers

[esoxansteel]

How many steelhead are over the ladder at the Ganny

[solopaddler]

LMAO I was thinkin the same thing, im almost out, i know who to ask now, maybe he has 2 freezers

 

 

Joanne has allotted me a tiny section of our freezer for my roe. It's about the size of two paperback books.

 

Not a lot, but if you're in desperate need Steve you're welcome to it.

 

Did anyone actually read the latest diatribe?

I made it through 4 lines myself before my brain turned numb.

[chessy]

6407

[Snidley]

Natural Lake O fish and stocked Lake O fish have virtually zero difference in fighting qualities. Fish energy levels/fighting characteristics are governeed by several factors. Temperature is one issue. Anyone who has fished the Niagara, where both natural and stocked fish are present, will understand that in April, May and June any steelhead you hook up with will rip exceptionally hard. In January, through March much less so. Same in Lake Erie. Virtually everyone from Ontario fishes the Catt in the middle of winter, in low flow (the Catt is virtually only fishable in low flow). Size of the fish is also a factor. Erie fish are smaller in general but if anglers went out into the western Erie basin in the summertime and hooked up with these same smaller fish they would find they fight with great ferocity, for their size. Water flow is also a factor. Our Ontario tribs, especially the Credit, are fishable when there's lots of flow and flow is like wind at the back for the fish. Wind at the back of natural fish or stockers is going to present the impression of a strong fight. In the blue zone in the middle of summer there's a mixture of natural and stocked steelhead. To my mind they all fight exceptionally well and thanks to New York State and their aggressive stocking tactics there are lots of them to catch. Temperature, water flow, gear dynamics, year class distribution and strain genetics are the factors that govern the fighting qualities/energy levels of steelhead not whether they are stockers or natural. Cognitive dissonance, on the other hand, is the main determining factor in the entire argument surrounding this issue coming from the CRAA membership (an organization of which Joseph, Mike, Louis and possibly others in this post are members of).

[esoxansteel]

Joanne has allotted me a tiny section of our freezer for my roe. It's about the size of two paperback books.

 

Not a lot, but if you're in desperate need Steve you're welcome to it.

 

Did anyone actually read the latest diatribe?

I made it through 4 lines myself before my brain turned numb.

 

 

Thanx for the offer Mike but I as well hit the cleaning stations in August for that yummy salmon skein, just got a chuckle out of Bill's thread, and I thought id help take the distraction away from Snidely for a minute, but i guess the minutes now up

[torco]

This debate does seem to have gone very personal but I can see some merit on both sides of the argument.

 

I am also not sure it is necessary to fish with roe anymore but I can definitely see some valid counter arguments so to lay blame entirely on guys that fish with roe is probably too simplistic.

 

In my mind and I am no fisheries management guru you need the following for sustainable fishery:

-Good quality habit

-Reasonable restrictions on fishing through limits and seasons

 

It sounds simple but is clearly not. So we need the CRAA and other groups to improve our waterways and we need the MNR to figure out what restrictions are needed. To me the first step is the reduction in limits from 5 to 2 on the Lake.

[aniceguy]

Did anyone actually read the latest diatribe?

I made it through 4 lines myself before my brain turned numb.

 

I made it through somehow. Someone really needs to teach this clown how to type in a paragraph or something, sorry Snidley ( the man who pokes bee's nests) I liked that....I tuned you out have a nice life in the belly boat off Bronte

I dont discredit the fact there is validity to many arguements, in the end it comes down to recreational angling and that equates to bigger fish and more of them. Mr Snidley does not have the ability or resources to attach relevent scientific data to support anything....other then arm chair commentary from the peanut gallery

Please post factual information not based on antodotal comments if your going to continue

 

TUNED OUT...

Edited March 27, 2012 by aniceguy

[chessy]

Thanx for the offer Mike but I as well hit the cleaning stations in August for that yummy salmon skein, just got a chuckle out of Bill's thread, and I thought id help take the distraction away from Snidely for a minute, but i guess the minutes now up

 

 

STAY OUT OF MY CLEANING STATION ........... I PROMISED THE NUCH SOME COHO EGGS

[tonka-toy]

This debate does seem to have gone very personal but I can see some merit on both sides of the argument.

 

I am also not sure it is necessary to fish with roe anymore but I can definitely see some valid counter arguments so to lay blame entirely on guys that fish with roe is probably too simplistic.

 

In my mind and I am no fisheries management guru you need the following for sustainable fishery:

-Good quality habit

-Reasonable restrictions on fishing through limits and seasons

 

It sounds simple but is clearly not. So we need the CRAA and other groups to improve our waterways and we need the MNR to figure out what restrictions are needed. To me the first step is the reduction in limits from 5 to 2 on the Lake.

 

Please don't ruin this bridge club cat fight with posts that include logic and common sense (you may just get this thread off track!) My wife and I are enjoying it far too much!!

[Paulus]

I have held my opinion on roe/ stocking for a long time but the '80's might be a stretch since I lived in BC for most of that decade. Certainly lots of people in BC held that opinion in the '80's, so much so that not only is roe and some cases even scent banned now but killing Steelheads is not permitted. In fact all samonoids are highly protected in BC where ANNUAL limits of even stocked salmonoids is enforced with tags that must be filled out on retaining any salmon. User pays is enforced by making sure that salmon/steelhead anglers must buy the tag or tags just to fish for these beauties. This is how sophisticated enforcement and management is paid for. My opinion on roe is now officially held in all of Canada except for Ontario. Some US states also now hold the same opinion on roe and US states virtually ALL have strong stocking programs for ALL of their gamefish. In addition New York state is winning the overall competition with pen rearing/ superior imprinting drawing not only their own migratory fish back to their estuaries for their anglers but drawing away fish from Ontario, Pennsylvania and Ohio as well. Ohio and Pennsylvania are not really suffering badly and they still have tons of fish because their stocking programs are so successful that they have what can only be described as an overabundance of trout to begin with. Ontario, not so much. We do have great tree lines in Ontario though. Thanks CRAA. I also remember lots of fish here, and not that long ago, all supported by stocking. I wonder what happened to them? Could it be that some guys married to a primitive tradition killed most them because they couldn't figure out a way to catch their "numbers" without using the future of the fishery for bait all the while throwing their support behind a government ministry and conservation club that opted for tree planting rather than more aggressive measures? And any bonus option for pelagic enhancement... lets spend that $$ on a "native" fish that were here 150 years ago. A fish that would have to be stocked AND is about the is single most expensive fish possible to stock successfully. All brought to you by your friends at MNR,OFAH, CRAA and an Aussie winery. So we are now stocking...a fish that is the most expensive possible to stock successfully and with the least possible chance of success...unless you spend most of your money to do so...with continual stocking. Someone wrote a book about these kinds of situations, Catch 22 I believe it was called. Could it also be that these same guys are falling all over themselves over one run, on one river, in one year? A year with the warmest March on record that has created a push just when the anglers happen to be on stream. We shall see how this plays out over the next few years. The MNR has decided that mainly based on the "success" of the Atlantic program and the "sustainable" philosophy espoused by CRAA and their accolytes to open a larger single egg rearing hatchery that will house the sainted Atlantic, some steelhead and Chinnook salmon all in one facility. Essentially this is all eggs/one basket approach. This approach is also contrary to the way things are done on the west coast and in the US where multiple facilities hedging the risk of disease is considered prudent. I hope it does not happen but single large facilities housing the vast majority of your already minimal stocking options seems to me to be risky, but only if you believe that aggressive human intervention into a fishery that is mainly centered in an urban setting of 4 million people is a requirement. Hope I'm wrong but given "sustainability" as the over riding philosophy of your approach then not restricting bait options in one single case, spawn, seems to me to be ridiculous. If you decide you are married to fishing with eggs, and Ontario's authorities and most Ontario anglers are, then it seems to me that aggressive stocking tactics are required. Personally I suggest both sustainable practices including no roe but allowing other organics, no harvest at all in GTA or any other vulnerable watersheds combined with aggressive stocking (of optimal strain freshly harvested from wild fish not brood stock) would be best and would create a fishery like the US or Argentina, or BC. and would also insure the overall fishery from dramatic or even catastrophic downturns that need not exist but under current management are the norm.

 

Zzzzzzzz. Zzzzzzzzz. Eh? What's that dear? Turn over? Was I snoring again? Oh... Sorry love. *kiss* ...zzzzzzzzz. Zzzzzzzzz.

 

 

p.-

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

i keep a few each year for table fare. i pride myself on trying to harvest smaller fish and using as much as possible. i eat the meat... the roe is bait, and lately i've been freezing fish carcasses for an animal sanctuary.