OutdoorDan Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Hi all, I recently made a thread about towing the new boat that I am planning to get. Thanks everyone for the help! I've made the decision to dock the boat at a marina for at least this year, then later on either keep it docked someplace if that suits me, or upgrade vehicles. Right now I am deciding on a boat and I am somewhat stuck at crossroads, mostly because of outboard decisions. It's between a Legend 20 Extreme and a Starcraft 196 Fishmaster. I like the 20 Extreme more and it comes with a smaller price tag even with an upgraded motor, but things turned out to be very complicated. As far as I understand, the 90 Merc ELPTO which the boat comes withis way too underpowered for the 20 Extreme. So, I can upgrade to either the 115 Merc 4 stroke, or the 150 Optimax. I want a four stroke so that I can troll for salmon and not use a kicker, because it's quieter, less maintenance and I will be burning less gas and won't be burning oil. However, I think the 115 4 stroke might be underpowered for this boat. With the 150 Optimax, I'm sure I will get enough power, but I assume it will be much louder, less smooth, and I won't be able to troll with it. Legend won't put a non Merc on the boat, and the Verado series seems way expensive. The Fishmaster comes with a 150 Suzuki four stroke. This suits me fine, but I like the Legend boat more aesthetically, and it's about 6k cheaper even with an upgrade to the 150 Optimax. It also comes with more features and is more of a complete package. Can you guys give me some opinion and input? I feel a little lost. If I could confirm that the 115 4 stroke isn't underpowering the 20 Extreme, I would go for it, but I don't have experience in the area. Most of the time it will just be a few small guys in the boat, but sometimes the boat will be packed full with people and equipment. I'll be using it on Georgian Bay. Thanks a lot, Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRIFTER_016 Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Dan Talk with the Ledgend people and see if they will put a 4 stroke 150HP on it. They are pretty easy to deal with. I bought my boat off them in '91 and had them change a few things and had no issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookinforwalleye Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 90 is way underpowered for any 20 footer unless it`s a canoe, 115 still underpowered in my opinion 150 just about right!!! If you go for the 150 you will be needing a kicker for trolling especially with an Optimax, I have read trolling with an Opti is not good for it. As far as noise goes my Opti is only slightly if at all loader than a four stroke and fuel efficency is on par or better than a 4 stroke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutdoorDan Posted June 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Drifter, 115 is the highest HP that Merc makes in 4 strokes. Except the Verado series, but those are very expensive: a 150 Opti with a Pro Kicker would be cheaper than a 150 Verado. lookinforwalleye, Thanks for your input! my thoughts were much on par with yours in terms of power, unfortunately. I had no idea that and Opti would be up there if not beyond a four stroke in fuel consumption though. I guess that will be made up with the oil I will need to put into it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smally21 Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 a new 4 stroke isnt going to get much, if any, fuel savings over a new 2 stroke. that may have been true when 4 strokes first came out but a modern 2 stroke is remarkably fuel efficient. same problems with noise and trolling however. the 20 legend wouldn't be a dog with a 115, but might not light the world on fire. i like the idea of the biggest motor you can afford with a kicker.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 A 20 footer with a 115 will be a dog. Loaded up with people, fuel and gear will need a smaller prop to get it to plane within a reasonable time. This can sometimes lead to more fuel consumption. IMHO the 150 would be the minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 I know I'm not spending my money on this, but that boat is rated for a 175. Anything less than a 150 would be a problem. I question the ethics and logic of any boat manufacturer that sells that outfit standard with a 90HP motor. It is in no way adequate and I would even suggest it is dangerous. I hate to rain on your parade, but I don't like legend boats at all for crap like selling boats underpowered. Cheers to the guys that have them and like them, just wouldn't find me in one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutdoorDan Posted June 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 I agree that it is ridiculous that they sell their boat underpowered, however in terms of overall quality they seem fine and as a few dealers told me are made by Smokecraft anyways. Clearly it's their angle (selling underpowered boats to create the illusion of huge savings) but as far as I'm concerned they can do whatever as long as I'm aware of all the issues and can solve them. As for raining on my parade, I welcome that. I'd rather hear a lot of criticism an make changes while I still can! Thanks, Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 You may find that if you really do some comparisons with different boat company's with all things being equal with HP, aluminum thickness and options you will find a better boat for the same price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 I think I just heard someone say Crestliner..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeontroller Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Seriously, go to Bay City Marine in Hamilton. Price out an similar Alumacraft with a 4-stroke Yamaha... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 No ads Wayne. Just trying to help the guy. Notice I said nothing about an E-Tec.... : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Bernie! I was surprised to see that they dropped the 150 Merc from the "normal" 4 stroke line... as my F-in-law has one on the back of his pontoon boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Yes, may have had something to do with emissions standards. Although we did end up with a bunch of new 2 stroke 20 Mercs this year. They went like hotcakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave524 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 I'd really rethink the kicker if you are going out offshore on big water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutdoorDan Posted June 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Hey guys, I'm really appreciating all the input. As you can understand, I have a lot to take into consideration and am extremely confused by the amount of information I have to process. Irish, I took the Crestliner hint and will research those boats, as well as Alumacraft as suggested by Pigeon. To help everyone help me, what I need is a 19-20 foot boat with a full windshield, a full height rear splashboard, and it has to been deep inside. One of the reasons I was looking at the Starcraft Fisherman and the legend 20 Extreme was because they are 31" deep inside. Having a full top would also be good, but not a necessity. I'm likely not being open minded enough considering all my options, but I am taking my time with this and I am certainly not locked into one of the two boats I mentioned in the OP. They are just ones that I am considering strongly at the time because they seem suitable, if I come across something better through your suggestions I won't have trouble changing my mind. By the sounds of the general consensus of this board, Legend isn't the greatest way to go. Please don't think that by saying this you are ruining "my parade". On the contrary, I would like alternate suggestions so I can make the best choice. Thanks everyone for the input so far, Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbouck Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 You will be happy with a legend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 I am surprised anyone would recomend a Legend with all of the well known hull problems and warranty issues people have had with them. I won't receommend a brand, of either boat or motor because I don't think you asked for it. What I will say is this. What ever the boat is rated for is what is should have. Otherwise you will end up wishing you had a bit more juice. Put it this way. If you want to run 50 mph. This is the only way you wil be satisfied by throttling down and cruising in it. What you will end up doing is running WOT most of the time if your not maxxed out. Also for safety sake if your fishing big water, get a kicker. Also with big water if you need to get up and off the lake in a hurry you wil appreciate the extra few MPH you will get out of a bigger motor. I can't recall every seeing a thread where someone wanted to downgrade the size of there main motor do to it being too powerful or too fast. P.S. Lund with a Yammy is a nice combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ld17 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 I am surprised anyone would recomend a Legend with all of the well known hull problems and warranty issues people have had with them. Where is this info well know? I bought a small legend and have had no problems with it. For that matter I see lots of them while fishing and some of them are old models and they seem to be working fine. If the legend boat is the boat you like and it has what you need then half the battle is over. As for what motor to get? As others have stated get the max or close to the max you can afford. You can never have to much power. Good luck with what ever you end up with. One last thing I will add is, make sure your happy with the dealer. I've talked to some and they don't seem to know much about the boats they sell or have an attitude that is not very appealing. If you don't get the service you want then go else where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Just google legend cracked hull. Or legend class action or even search on here, lots of people have had issues with them. One of my good freinds also had a legend and it split right down the keel while out on simcoe. And 18 footer. It got fixed and he sold it. Thankfully he was close to shore perching. He was able to beach it. I don't think it would have actually sunk, but when water started gushing in it was a bit of panic time. The problem with the welded hulls is area beside the weld can get weak if the weld is done too hot or something. Maybe they have worked out these issue but I wouldn't ever touch one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Are you confusing C(T)racker with Legend Jedi??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutdoorDan Posted June 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Those I know for a fact I need to avoid - I've read up on that. As for brand recommendations I'm all ears as long as they make a boat that meets my specifications... Although I am getting the feeling that it's against forum rules to mention specific brands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFSC Kevin Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 I'd really rethink the kicker if you are going out offshore on big water I agree. You should look into getting a kicker motor to save the hours off your main engine and the kicker can be a back up to get back to shore if anything happens to the main! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 I agree. You should look into getting a kicker motor to save the hours off your main engine and the kicker can be a back up to get back to shore if anything happens to the main! Ditto!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Tracker is even worse, but the legend welded hulls have also had some real bad reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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