a.cortellessa Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Hey fellas, I have heard the steelhead fishing has been tough last week out on Niagara but was planning on going out tomorrow. Im just looking or someone who has something positive to say to be honest haha. Anyone been out recently and had some good luck? I have never been to the niagara but was planning on going to the Whirpool and casting some spoons out. Anyone know how the fishing has been and have any other tips? Thanks guys!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeytier Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Think about trying some bottom bouncing if the spoons aren't doin it for ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Bobby Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 forget about 4 lb leaders. I never use less than 6 lb, and generally 8 lb fluro. If the water is stupid clear, I use up to 8 ft leads off the 3 way. Never skunked in 10 years down there. Use the 1 oz slinky and if you use braid, add a 6 ft fluro leader BEFORE tying the main line to the 3 way rig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Dead smelt or big emeralds.. Berkley Gulp in the smelt pattern should be the ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvette1 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 sunday water was mud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallacio Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 sunday water was mud Still is from the looks of things... http://coastwatch.glerl.noaa.gov/modis/modis.cgi/modis?region=o&page=1&template=sub&image=t1.11074.1646.LakeOntario.143.250m.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Think about trying some bottom bouncing if the spoons aren't doin it for ya. Thanks for posting this, interesting video. In the video he says that they are there in January. I have a question for anyone on this board who fishes there with a boat during the winter months, how do you get insurance for the boat? Mine is covered from Apr.1 to Nov.30, the rest of the time it must be laid up. I assume I could get coverage for the whole year, but would this cost big $? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAC Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) Dead smelt Are illegal to use as they are not listed as baitfish in the regs. Waiting on the MNR to give answer. Edited March 16, 2011 by nomad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallacio Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Are illegal to use as they are not listed as baitfish in the regs. This is not correct. The list of permitted baitfish in the regs you refer to is for live bait. With the exception of a few zones in Northern Ontario, it is legal to use dead Smelt as bait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAC Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 This is not correct. The list of permitted baitfish in the regs you refer to is for live bait. With the exception of a few zones in Northern Ontario, it is legal to use dead Smelt as bait. Confirmed it with the MNR booth at the Niagara Outdoor Show last Saturday. I'd like to know your source though, because I used them in the past too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave524 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) Streamer flys, tied with bucktail/ imitation polar bear hair/ crystal flash/ tinsel , long slim sparsely dressed in patterns similar to the McNally Smelt, with greenish bluish on the back are often a hot ticket for bottom bouncing. Edited March 16, 2011 by dave524 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallacio Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) Confirmed it with the MNR booth at the Niagara Outdoor Show last Saturday. I'd like to know your source though, because I used them in the past too. While I have no idea which MNR representative you spoke to at the booth, it's not unheard of that an individual MNR representative provided inaccurate information (who was misinformed themselves). I have no individual source per se rather am interpreting the regulations as they are written. The list of acceptable baitfish pertains to LIVE fish only, dead bait is permitted unless there is a specific exception for a given species. FMZ 1-4 list (in the exceptions) that Smelt may not possessed at bait. The same exception does not apply in other zones, including the Niagara. Further, I have a copy of the 2005 regs in front of me. Although now outdated it states: "Live Smelt may not be used as bait in Ontario. There are restrictions on the use of dead Smelt (see Exceptions to the General Regulations)"...ie my point in the above paragraph. If dead Smelt are not actually permitted, I'm missing something in the regulations as they are written or the regs need to be corrected. Edited March 16, 2011 by wallacio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAC Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 While I have no idea which MNR representative you spoke to at the booth, it's not unheard of that an individual MNR representative provided inaccurate information (who was misinformed themselves). You could be right. Wanting to know for certain, I called the MNR to see what was the verdict. The first person was convinced it is legal for salted or frozen smelt with the exception of the Northern Ontario lakes you spoke of. Then I told him my findings and he forwarded my call to the "baitfish expert". Left a voicemail around noon today and have yet to get the call back. will let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 And to think these guys can give you a ticket because they 'think' they are in the right, lol. Scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstone74 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Interesting debate on the use of dead Smelt. I went on a charter last Spring on the Niagara with a reputable guide and we scooped up dead smelt when they floated by, and stored them in the well for later use. I don't think he would jeopardize his business using prohibited bait.... Paul Edited March 17, 2011 by Ironstone74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAC Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 While I have no idea which MNR representative you spoke to at the booth, it's not unheard of that an individual MNR representative provided inaccurate information (who was misinformed themselves). I have no individual source per se rather am interpreting the regulations as they are written. The list of acceptable baitfish pertains to LIVE fish only, dead bait is permitted unless there is a specific exception for a given species. FMZ 1-4 list (in the exceptions) that Smelt may not possessed at bait. The same exception does not apply in other zones, including the Niagara. Further, I have a copy of the 2005 regs in front of me. Although now outdated it states: "Live Smelt may not be used as bait in Ontario. There are restrictions on the use of dead Smelt (see Exceptions to the General Regulations)"...ie my point in the above paragraph. If dead Smelt are not actually permitted, I'm missing something in the regulations as they are written or the regs need to be corrected. You are 100% correct! Spoke the Aquatic Ecologist/Policy Advisor, and she informed me that the guidelines can be a bit ambiguous but the CO who I spoke with was WRONG. She also stated "although they are an invasive species, they are not considered a threat except in the area mentioned in the guidelines." Dead, frozen or salted are legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallacio Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Thanks for looking into it...I hope to use some to tempt Niagara Steel very soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bob Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 You are 100% correct! Spoke the Aquatic Ecologist/Policy Advisor, and she informed me that the guidelines can be a bit ambiguous but the CO who I spoke with was WRONG. She also stated "although they are an invasive species, they are not considered a threat except in the area mentioned in the guidelines." Dead, frozen or salted are legal. HELLO....am I missing something here.....the Niagara River, Lake Erie and Lake Ontario are filthy with smelt....dead, frozen or alive should be and is legal in NYS as well as in Ontario, Canada...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallacio Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 While Smelt are established in many local lakes, they are non-native invasive species (which can displace native species by eating their young) and the MNR does not permit them to be used live in order to stop further spread into non-affected lakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bob Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 While Smelt are established in many local lakes, they are non-native invasive species (which can displace native species by eating their young) and the MNR does not permit them to be used live in order to stop further spread into non-affected lakes. Hello Again....did you not read my above post.....they have been in the Great Lakes before you and I were born and are here to stay even though the "MNR" doesn't approve.....DUH.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallacio Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) Hello Again....did you not read my above post.....they have been in the Great Lakes before you and I were born and are here to stay even though the "MNR" doesn't approve.....DUH.. Perhaps it's you that needs to re-read my post carefully. I'll attempt to clarify further: Smelt are certainly established in the Great Lakes however as I stated previously, they are a non-native invasive species which the MNR does not want to be spread into non-affected lakes elsewhere in the province which could happen if they were used as live bait and dumped. Thus, their use as LIVE bait in Ontario is not permitted. You could argue that they should be allowed as live bait in the Great Lakes ie FMZ's 19, 20 etc as an "exception" since they are already established there however I can only assume the MNR wishes to keep the list of acceptable live bait fish species streamlined for the entire province so as a result, they are not permitted to be used. Edited March 18, 2011 by wallacio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bob Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Perhaps it's you that needs to re-read my post carefully. I'll attempt to clarify further: Smelt are certainly established in the Great Lakes however as I stated previously, they are a non-native invasive species which the MNR does not want to be spread into non-affected lakes elsewhere in the province which could happen if they were used as live bait and dumped. Thus, their use as LIVE bait in Ontario is not permitted. You could argue that they should be allowed as live bait in the Great Lakes ie FMZ's 19, 20 etc as an "exception" since they are already established there however I can only assume the MNR wishes to keep the list of acceptable list of live bait fish streamlined for the entire province so as a result, they are not permitted to be used. The Volley is back to you wallacio.... .....since this whole thread including the title is about the NIAGARA RIVER I'm safe to assume it's LEGAL and OK to use the damn bait.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallacio Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookinforwalleye Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Ah Billy Bob god luv ya you just love being the centre of attention!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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