Global Warming (NF)

[bosc]

First of all it is not called Global Warming anymore but Climate Change....something along the line as the 50% rain forecast.

 

The earths climate, the lakes water levels, the ocean currents etc goes through circles, some in 5 year, some in 35 some in 100 year cycles.

 

And as far as Al Gore........never really believed the guy in the first place.

[ryanheritage]

OK... Well normally I stay away from this type of conversation BUT this global warming thing is something I have been following for a little while....

 

Ok first I do 110% believe in global warming. The reason I say this is simply because of t

e realization that the ice caps are melting, more drought in weird places ( california right now) and really really weird weather. I recently just watched the Al Gore movie "an inconvient truth" and it really opened my eyes to what I was already noticing warmer weather, less winter, and a serious humidex. I watched the movie and realized that this guy has a point. Yes the're were warm stages in the medievil era but not as warm as now, and for the last 600 million years there has been ups and down in climate but not as severe as what we are seeing now. Also the "warm" periods are paralel with the rise and fall of CO2 levels in the atmosphere which now are i think it was three times as high as they have ever been in 600 million years. Due to the massive rise in CO2 it is trapping the energy from the sun in our atmospere causing global warming. We are doing a multitude of things as a species that is effecting the environment the industrial revolution is just one thing contributing to this CO2 rise. The amount of forest (rain) we destroy every day these rain forests and other forests are the filter for the earth's air and since the filter is getting ALOT smaller the air is not being filtered as well as it was way back in the medevil era. I watched that movie made in 2005 and it said that we were endanger of an ice shelf breaking off in greenland that could possibly raise the earths water level and low and behold what happens? and ice shelf breaks off!!!! the peice that broke is still melting into the oceans and that piece is only a small portion of what they are afraid of actually coming off. And that piece that did break off wil eventually lead to the rest of the ice shelf breaking too. Then wwe have the fact that since this cold water is falling rapidly in the ocean (cold water is heavier than warm water) it will mess with the currents thus causing freakinsh weather. Droughts in places known for rain, rain in places normally without, Please for the sake of our children and our childrens children don't brush this off. Even if they are wrong about global warming are you willing to risk it? No matter what we would be helping the world if we followed the steps required to slow and stop the pollution mankind is creating. If anyone in the durham area wants to borrow the movie I am happy to lend its a eye opener.

[snag]

First of all it is not called Global Warming anymore but Climate Change....something along the line as the 50% rain forecast.

 

The earths climate, the lakes water levels, the ocean currents etc goes through circles, some in 5 year, some in 35 some in 100 year cycles.

 

And as far as Al Gore........never really believed the guy in the first place.

 

You're 50% correct

 

Good history lesson

 

The equation NOW is:

Earth cycles

PLUS

Human Influence

 

 

It's simple

It's both

 

Research it.

[Bob]

I must dispute"warmer than ever before". The medaeival warm period was warmer than today and 1000 years ago, the Vikings were raising crops and cattle on Greenland. I don't dispute that today, we're warming up some but I don't believe we should be arrogant enough to think we're causing it.

 

Just found an interesting flick and I haven't even finished watching it but these real scientists make a lot more sense than a politician and former vice president of the US.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU

[holdfast]

Yea and listen to Part 8 of the link that I will provide again. Kind of an environmentalist objectivity. Too bad that this documentary isn't being broadcast in our schools. Bookoobeast, why don"t you check out this link. But chances you allready made up your mind. Oh, this is also an eye opener. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlvBnLa7r2I...ted&search=

[ehg]

Age of Earth- 4,500 million years

Age of exposed Canadian shield- 3,000 million years

Dinosaurs and jungles in Alberta area- 70 million years ago

Maximum glacial coverage in Ontario (1 km thick)- 21,000 years ago

First traces of human existance- 8,000 years

Heavy industrialization- 150 years

Cries of global warming (climate change)- 10 years

 

It's true there has been a warming trend,

but it sure does take away from poverty and general human explotation as political issues.

 

Good fishing,

ehg

Edited March 15, 2007 by ehg

[ryanheritage]

I am totally open to knowing as much as I can about this but I look at it in a very simple way .......................................................

regardless of my science background or education I put it in this analogy...

 

If the world was like a brita water filter, how long before that filter doesn't work anymore if it doesn't get changed? Even think of a fish tank no matter what you have to change the filter. I don't think we as humans are 100% responsible I do believe it is a cycle system but what I think is we have forced the cycle to happen out of sync from its natural course. And it's not that we are 100% responsible BUT we do have the ability and intelligence to help fix it. I am not a know everything guy and I pray to everything holy I am wrong but if I am not we need help. There is another movie not about global warming just about what we are taught to believe and since we trained to think that way thats all we see. Remember is school talking about Chris Columbus? It was common knowledge that the world was flat anyone who thought the world was round was C-R-A-Z-Y but what do we know now?! All I am saying is that it is a very possible problem. Oh yeah the movie I am talking about like that is called "what the bleep do we know" Econic growth will be the major deciding factor in who is right and wrong with this topic.

[ryanheritage]

I just don't think we want to accept what is going due to economic result

[OhioFisherman]

LOL dad told me don`t believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see, you will be better off. Something going on with the climate? Maybe, maybe not, it is good to observe, and discuss, and not get bent over it.

 

LOL stir, stir, simmer?

[Chris]

Haha, the oldest management trick in the book. How to get funding 101. I remember working at a factory where the engineers were marvelling at how efficient the plant manager was at getting capital funds for projects from the head office. His method was to first create a problem, then let it grow out of control, and then ask for funding to fix the problem. I've been on this earth long enough to see this happen in every walk of life. In fact, the last election was all about health care wait times (another problem created by government that requires plenty of funding to fix) and wait times have only gotten worse. Yet nobody's concerned about wait times this year. Why not, because we've been fed a steady diet of environmental gloom and doom since the last election. And guess what, to fix global warming politicians are gonna have to dig deeper into our pockets for more money.

 

Fear sells, for those interested in buying.

[holdfast]

Amen

[crappieperchhunter]

I recycle. I have 2 composters in my backyard. I have a fairly large vegetable garden and grow alot of our veggies. Just this past summer we changed all the lightbulbs in our house...except for 3 of them...over to those queer spirally looking energy savers. I'm feeling really good about myself !!!! My work is done !!! I have done my part to save the planet. Now it's up to the rest of you...lol.

 

Not being any kind of expert my only conclusion is that we can all do our part to make it better. I believe wind and solar power are the way of the future. Prices will come down after the technology is refined and mass produced. When I was in High School...late 70's... a good calculator was $30 plus batteries to keep it running. Now you can get an equivalent solar one for $5 at Walmart...that you never have to put batteries in.

 

Whether you believe that global warming is as bad as the "Al Gores" of the world say it is or not...well to me thats not the point. To me the point is what can I do as an individual to make it better. Only the man in the mirror can answer that one for you.

[ryanheritage]

Crappieperch..............YOUR 110% right even if they are wrong about global warming happening people still have to be more environmentally aware. And Chriss no matter how someone gets funding for the earth its a great investment. But if you think this problem is "invented" drive into toronto at 7ish in the morning on a summer day and look at the "invented" brown smog above the city. I lived in calgary for a year or two, about 3yrs ago...lol.... and the one thing i remember so vividly was the sky was blue without that brownish "tint" I mean it was really really different. I would walk to the bow river right in the middle of the city and catch my dinner, do you think I could do that with the don river or the humber? I am not trying to change anyone opinion here I just think that we as a society should really take a serious look for ourselfs at what we have noticed in the last ten+ years. The fact that we even started this debate is enough for me to try and do more for out environment.

[Chris]

bookoobeast, please do not get me wrong. I am all for better use of our resources and less polluting. However, I think the theory that mankind is behind global warming is nothing more than the same old fearmongering from the same old sources who are trying to get the same old huge amounts of cash from the same old taxpayers.

[ccmtcanada]

Whoever posted the youtube link to that British program....thanks! Found it very interesting. Haven't watched all 8 parts yet, but I felt compelled to post a little something. I'm not saying who is right and wrong, but it sure makes you think.

 

Part 3 talks about CO2 emissions...specifically the human factor. The program stated that Volcanoes emit more CO2 than all man made sources combined. They said that humans produce about 6.5 gigatons per year. This compares with animals and bacteria at around 150 gigatons. The single biggest source is the oceans. In percentage terms, humans are responsible for single digit CO2 emissions. The program does NOT say that CO2 level are NOT increasing, they are saying that to say humans are the main cause is incorrect.

 

Part 4 goes into something that actually makes more sense to me. It compared the suns activity and global temps. Here's a screen shot....

 

 

This says that when solar activity is up (ie sunspot activity), so is the Earth's temp. The effects of heating the oceans affects CO2 production from it...the single biggest source of CO2 on the planet. Makes you think...and to me, it's more intuitive...when the sun is more active, we get warmer.

 

They also talked about cosmic rays from the sun...apparently comsic rays are directly linked to cloud formation. When the concentrations of rays are high, more clouds form and vice versa. When there is lots of could cover, it reflects heat back out into space, causing a cooling effect on the earth. Here's a graph showing cosmic ray activity and temperatures.....

 

 

It also talks about Al Gore's Inconvenient Truth and how the entire theroy is dependent on levels of CO2 in the atmosphere. Al says that it's complicated, but that the trend is there. This program points out a key flaw in the theory...one of those "complications" that were left out of the movie.

 

Here's a quick graph comparing the sun activity and temps, as well as CO2 levels and temps....decide which one seems right....

 

 

Anyhow, I'm not saying who is right and wrong, just pointing out what this particular show was focussing on. Its interesting that most of the scientists are from the US and Canada too. If anyone knows about these solar factors and knows that they are incorrect, please post! We should see all sides of this issue.

Edited March 15, 2007 by ccmtcanada

[ryanheritage]

Just a quick note.

 

No its not just human activity that is causeing the high increase in CO2 but what I am saying is that we are eliminating the forest that filter this C02. So even though we are not the major contributors to the C02 we ARE the major contributors to the loss of the filters that normally clean the environment of the C02. I know that C02 somes from sooo many sorces besides us but how for the last umpteen years has it been processed in our environment? by all the trees that we are burning(more C02) for cattle, farming, or just plan old paper and development. What I think is that we are not creating the C02 but what we are eliminating is a way to clean the environment. that's why we are seeing a significant rise in C02 gasses. I mean with or without movies or scientists we all know that if we elimate the preadator (trees) we will get alot more prey (co2 gas). That is what I got from the Al Gore movie. That we are taking away the earths ability to process the excess amounts of C02 that is happening. Its the same as changing the furnace filter in your house if you don't higher allergies and all that stuff.

[mattyk]

Global warming is a real issue. We all need to wake up and take notice about our actions and how they affect the earth. Global warming will most likely have a negative impact on our fisheries so as fisherman i think that we should take extra care.

[tonyb]

I guess it seems the only way people will actually believe we are having an impact on the environment, is for a mass tragedy to occur, such as the flooding outlined in the movie 'An Inconvenient Truth'.

 

When millions or billions of people have to die in order for us to take notice, do you think it's time we start to change our ways?

 

mmmm GOLD BARS! or.... THE ENTIRE PLANET!

 

Good times!

 

Tony

 

Oh yeah, let's say one day the whole environmental thing was discovered as a hoax, would we really be that worse off by becoming more environmentally aware today?

[kennyman]

Just a quick note.

 

No its not just human activity that is causeing the high increase in CO2 but what I am saying is that we are eliminating the forest that filter this C02. So even though we are not the major contributors to the C02 we ARE the major contributors to the loss of the filters that normally clean the environment of the C02. I know that C02 somes from sooo many sorces besides us but how for the last umpteen years has it been processed in our environment? by all the trees that we are burning(more C02) for cattle, farming, or just plan old paper and development. What I think is that we are not creating the C02 but what we are eliminating is a way to clean the environment. that's why we are seeing a significant rise in C02 gasses. I mean with or without movies or scientists we all know that if we elimate the preadator (trees) we will get alot more prey (co2 gas). That is what I got from the Al Gore movie. That we are taking away the earths ability to process the excess amounts of C02 that is happening. Its the same as changing the furnace filter in your house if you don't higher allergies and all that stuff.

Great point. If we can somehow save the rain forests,boreal forests etc. that are using the co2, it should greatly reduce the risk or at least slow the process. Our factories and power generation facilities(coal burning should be phased out not build more like the U.S.) are among the worst in the world and there's no reason for it. The factories have their emissions checked and when they are beyond allowable limits they pay the fine. This goes on every month and it's simply a matter of cash. The fine is cheaper than fixing the problem, so they pay the fine and don't worry about the emissions. It's part of the cost of doing business. Much of the pollutants can be filtered using giant catalytic convertors, but there is a cost involved. A cost the factory will never take on unless they are forced to. I know there is a fine line to walk between economics and the enviromental issues, but there are some things we can change. I believe emissions from cars are a necessary and small part of the problem, but we can even change that quite easily over time with ethanol (they should put the percentage used in regular gas up immediately to 10% and every year by a couple more percent) or even better check out this link. It's coming ..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry6w3mRm-FM . Hopefully more technologies such as this can save our bacon. Even if humans are not the sole cause, and I believe that to be true, we still should do what we can without turning the whole world upside down to do it. It has been pointed out that other countries such as China and India must also do their parts. Realistically they will continue to do so (keep polluting) and how are we going to stop them??? The only way is to make the solutions affordable and then by using trade embargos to force these countries into complying. We'll need a global effort to make any relevant impact at all. Nuclear technology is fine here,but very dangerous abroad. I'm not feeling very comforable about Asia and the Middle East having it,are you?There ARE solutions out there. I'm not sure the oil companies want them to come out though.

Edited March 15, 2007 by kennyman

[holdfast]

OK I really gots to say something, ( Barely passed high school) in opposition to the Alarmists that have already convinced some or most people that the world will come to an end so to speak. First of all when people start panicking they do one of two things. Freeze like a deer caught in the headlights or run in the wrong direction like a chicken with their head cut off. As much as I love Political Activists,(Ya as far as I'm concerned, get a job or if your really concerned join the military as they are at least trying to make a better world). I really feel, that it might be too late. Talking to my daughter (High School) I asked her Opinion on global warming. Basically her opinion is what she seen on the Al Gore film that her class had to see in school. Wow, we're going to have to put up with another generation of tree huggers. So far activists have convinced the majority, that nuclear energy is unsafe when in fact without the Russian tragedy, there has never been a death or accident from nuc power. Its clean and cheap and ours. As far as they're concerned, we should have wind mills and solar panels all over the place. Yea and even in our forests and lakes. No hunting or fishing, and eat lettuce. Ride bicycles, build houses of straw and write on slate, no military for security, but go on UN missions and watch people get killed and massacred, because we are not supposed to show any aggression. They've disrupted a peoples way of living in Newfoundland and the North. Now they don't want poor countries to use their resources, lumber, coal, oil. People (ya us) should mind their OWN business before putting demands on other peoples. So where does that leave me. First of all, I don't panic. Call me selfish, but life is good now. I did my job to help man kind ( I'm a do-er) 4 x 6 month tours lifting land mines on their INVITATION or Help. Winnipeg floods, Eastern Canada ice storm etc. I don't need to dress in green hair and dress as a wind mill smoking dope skipping school, job, or not looking for a job collecting social assistance. I like our present government, haven't done nothing wrong yet! But there is an Opposition Idiot that may force him to do something stupid and expensive. It really bugs me that there are two sides of things and we get plastered with what is fashionable or politically correct, sometimes we may be wrong. Bottom line stop panicking otherwise it will be very expensive. And if people are going to publicly use statistics and Grade 3 bar graphs, how about linking us with your references. That way some of us so called skeptical people like me can see the source of your information

[OhioFisherman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nucle...ation_accidents

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster

 

LOL live next to a wind mill? No problem! If they are willing to give me 5 to 10 thousand dollars in rent based on generation? dude I got room in the back yard!

 

Live next to a nuke plant? yo momma! Safe ? with humans involved? LOL the lowest bidder gets the contract?

 

Down here they are still arguing over where they are going to store the spent fuel safely, could cost billions. The states with nuke plants don`t want it stored in their states, nice huh, we will put our pollution in your state?

 

Yes there are two sides to everything, wait till a problem occurs to try to fix it? Might be too late? We need to do a bit better job of maintaining our home?

Edited March 16, 2007 by OhioFisherman

[Greencoachdog]

So!... the Sun is warming our globe?... who'da ever thunk it!!!

 

Ice Ages and Global Warming... everybody talks about the weather, but nobody ever does a damn thing about it!!!

[Deano]

Man caused the continent's to seperate. Man caused the deserts of the earth. Man caused the ice ages. People, it's an ever changing world, always was, always will be.

The same people who are wrong about the weather 50% of the time 365 days of the year. Funny what people will believe. Most people even buy bottled water nowadays. If there's a way to make a buck, a good salesman will sell it. I guess if you beat a drum long enough, people will march to it.

Funny, the world has survived for billions of years, man comes along and it ends in one hundred years.

Soon we'll be taxed for the air we breath, sounds crazy now, but years from now people will be having the same debate.

[OhioFisherman]

LOL I used to buy gas for 31 cents a gallon the taxes on it are more than that, I bought a brand new dodge tradesman van in 1973, 3100 bucks, I bought a brand new split level home in December of 1974 for 28,900.

 

LOL Man has changed all that! It takes a lot longer to fix things after they screw them up?

[Headhunter]

I'd like to thank everyone for their responses and more than anything, for keeping the discussion civil and respectful! Some very interesting points being made and I think it's a very useful discussion... getting people to think!

HH