Jet Posted June 15, 2010 Report Posted June 15, 2010 (edited) What got you hooked on fishing? I first held a rod in my hand at about four years of age. While the sport was likely already a part of me having grown up in a small town on Lake Superior, I think what really sealed the deal was hooking into that first big, unforgettable fish. That feeling of the first "big one" has always stuck with me so when I introduce new people to the sport, I like to seek out something big. Well it doesn't get much bigger than Lake Ontario and it doesn't get any more guaranteed than having Fishhunter as your guide. So on deck with me was my partner in crime Jessica, a new but growing with experience angler. Then there's Massa who has fished several times before but despite my many attempts, nothing over 2lbs has blessed his line. Also along for the trip was fellow OFC buddy daking_eh2007, a soon-to-be Lake O veteran. Of course I had my own motives for this trip and before we set out I asked Lloyd for just one thing: "Please get me into a big Chinook!" He gave me a reassuring nod of confidence and off we went. Within about 5 minutes the rods lit up. Daking was first up and pulled in a nice football sized Steelhead. Here he is gettin' it done! I was next and brought this piece of chrome to the boat. Massa then hooked up with another Steelhead and landed his personal best fish. Jessica has landed several Steelhead north of the 10lb mark in the rivers and creeks, but as anyone who's fished on Lake O knows, the Steelhead out here are a whole different kind of fight. This chromer was peeling drag with aerial displays and really got her adrenaline going! I love watching my friends fighting big fish and this battle was one of the most entertaining so far. We would catch several more fish over the next few hours when suddenly the action slowed down, as it did for everyone else out on the lake. This is where a good guide really comes in, as Lloyd was nonstop in trying to get us into the fish again. He was changing depth, lures, patterns, and areas about every 20 minutes trying to find a active school and really working hard. After a handful of strategy changes a rod lit up. Just as he passed the rod into my hands, the line started screaming off the spool. That was the sound of Lloyd keeping his promise. The rest was up to me. It took at least 15 minutes, but I had my King, all 21 lbs of it. Short video clip of the fight: <embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid608.photobucket.com/albums/tt162/s700svt/Lake%20O%20June%2013-10/chinnycut.mp4"> It was an amazing day of fishing and for me it was all about getting Jessica and Massa into some "big ones" and Lloyd did not disappoint. The fishing was hard at times and Lloyd really went above and beyond, rarely sitting down, to make sure that everyone went home with a lot of great memories. While Jessica would loose a mighty King after a short fight and Massa have his two biggest fish pop off, they both had their encounters with the "big ones." When I heard them both say "Let's do it again!" on the ride home, I knew they were one big step closer to getting "hooked." Now that's a happy group of fisherpeople. Thanks for reading. Edited June 16, 2010 by Jet
MJL Posted June 15, 2010 Report Posted June 15, 2010 Dude! Did you ever think of stringing up the Riverkeeper to one of those rods and mooching?
fishnsled Posted June 15, 2010 Report Posted June 15, 2010 Another great day with Lloyd. Thanks for the report.
alexcba Posted June 15, 2010 Report Posted June 15, 2010 looks like you had a great time great lookin fish.
asdve23rveavwa Posted June 15, 2010 Report Posted June 15, 2010 Great stuff! Lloyd knows his salmon/trout as well as Quinte walleye. Some really nice bows and a "beauty" King!!
daking_eh2007 Posted June 15, 2010 Report Posted June 15, 2010 Great report! Was nice going out with you guys, I love your title "soon-to-be Lake O veteran".
Jet Posted June 16, 2010 Author Report Posted June 16, 2010 Thanks for the comments guys. And yes Lloyd really knows his stuff. This was my second trip out with him and it just gets better. Mike I definitely did think about throwing the pin on, but after battling that King I'm not so sure! Nestor you definitely will be a veteran soon and I hope I can help you out too!
Jet Posted June 16, 2010 Author Report Posted June 16, 2010 Finally figured out how to embed a video from photobucket. Fight of Chinny added.
daking_eh2007 Posted June 16, 2010 Report Posted June 16, 2010 Finally figured out how to embed a video from photobucket. Fight of Chinny added. Hey Jet, I can't open the video.
Hairpy Posted June 16, 2010 Report Posted June 16, 2010 Nice outing but you're not making any friends by posting deathboard pics of wild steelhead. Joseph
Roy Posted June 16, 2010 Report Posted June 16, 2010 Nice outing but you're not making any friends by posting deathboard pics of wild steelhead. Joseph The steel fishery is fine. This is a fishing board. Suck it up buttercup.
asdve23rveavwa Posted June 16, 2010 Report Posted June 16, 2010 The steel fishery is fine. This is a fishing board. Suck it up buttercup. Don't know why somebody always has to throw in a negative comment?
fishhunter Posted June 16, 2010 Report Posted June 16, 2010 Nice outing but you're not making any friends by posting deathboard pics of wild steelhead. Joseph Well I think he has enough friends that he does not need to worry about guys that think killing fish for eating is a bad thing. I have fished for steelhead for 26 years and am all for letting fish go but also ok with keeping fish. If the MNR did not want you keeping fish I'm sure they would say so. For anyone that has fished with me they know I'm all about looking after the fish and making sure if going back no net is used and if being kept killed right away. I always say, if you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all!!! Now that being said, I'm Glad I was able to put a smile on your friends faces Jet. I'm sure we will be hooking up again. Never let people flaming you bother you. The board is full of great guys and gals and a few that I can say because I have nothing good to say about them.
Grimace Posted June 16, 2010 Report Posted June 16, 2010 Good stuff. I can't wait to get my riggers out.
NANUK Posted June 16, 2010 Report Posted June 16, 2010 WTG on a great day with some good friends. Nothing wrong with taking home a couple of nice eater. still way less then your legal limit.
Hairpy Posted June 17, 2010 Report Posted June 17, 2010 I think most would agree , especially because of the recent group of consevation minded river (float) guys that are on this board that bonking "wild" steelhead is not cool. There are coho's , chinooks even browns that are "stocked" that are put it the water for people to take home (no wild self sustaining genetics involved) I appologize if I sound offensive and don't mean to attack anyone in particular, I and many others spend a lot of time trying to make the fishery better and it hurts to see them not make it back. thanks Joseph
Headhunter Posted June 17, 2010 Report Posted June 17, 2010 Way to go Lloyd and friends! Looks like a great day on the water. Joseph, have you ever left a stream and actually fished out on the big lake? In my experience, many fish that are hooked out there are done the moment they hit the upper water column. The temperature change kills them. Are you suggesting that we not fish out on Lake O in an effort to sustain a non native fishery? Give yer head a shake man! HH
Jet Posted June 17, 2010 Author Report Posted June 17, 2010 I think most would agree , especially because of the recent group of consevation minded river (float) guys that are on this board that bonking "wild" steelhead is not cool. There are coho's , chinooks even browns that are "stocked" that are put it the water for people to take home (no wild self sustaining genetics involved) I appologize if I sound offensive and don't mean to attack anyone in particular, I and many others spend a lot of time trying to make the fishery better and it hurts to see them not make it back. thanks Joseph You say you didn't mean to attack anyone in particular yet you called me out specifically by saying "you're not making any friends by posting deathboard pics of wild steelhead." You say you care about Steelhead and that "bonking" them is not cool. If you really care as much as you claim then you should retire your rod and never again pierce the mouth of another fish with a sharp hook and stress them to shore for your own personal enjoyment. But no it seems you've decided to tread into the gray area where you stand on your pedestal and proclaim that it's "ethical" for you to hook a fish and battle it for your own pleasure while deceiving yourself in the process that no harm is ever done, but anyone who does exactly the same and then decides to consume it is no longer "ethical." Until you figure out how to stop contradicting yourself and realize that your personal interpretations are neither fact or law, no argument you make will ever hold any weight.
MJL Posted June 17, 2010 Report Posted June 17, 2010 I think most would agree , especially because of the recent group of consevation minded river (float) guys that are on this board that bonking "wild" steelhead is not cool. There are coho's , chinooks even browns that are "stocked" that are put it the water for people to take home (no wild self sustaining genetics involved) I appologize if I sound offensive and don't mean to attack anyone in particular, I and many others spend a lot of time trying to make the fishery better and it hurts to see them not make it back. thanks Joseph Hey Joseph I too am concerned about the state of our wild naturalized steelhead for the rivers on the Lake O north shore (seeing as how I've fished them most of my life). The rainbows which have evolved from the Ganaraska are a hardy strain well adept at surviving all over the great lakes (Michigan stocks the Ganaraska strain into some of their rivers too). With that said, one study in particular, Exploitation of Wild Rainbow Trout Populations in Wilmot Creek and the Ganaraska River (Bowlby & Stanfield, 2000) indicates that while the boat fishery is much larger and harvested more fish out in Lake O, they impacted the wild populations of those rivers far less than shore bound anglers…How is this so? New York stocks a naturalized Chambers Creek Strain of rainbow trout into their rivers (Both Lake Ontario and Erie). Nowadays it has become known as the Salmon River strain. Having fished for those fish this spring down in New York, I can’t remember ever seeing fin-clips, tags or maxillary clips which often denote stocked fish. In reality from what I’ve been told, New York only clips ¼ to 1/3 of the fish they stock. Steelhead don’t abide by international border lines…They swim pretty much anywhere they want to and boats fishing out of Port Hope and Port Darlington are getting into them too. To quote the study, “Although the boat fisheries were much larger and harvested more fish in total than shore based fisheries (Table 1), with less than 10% exploitation, the boat fisheries had less impact on Wilmot Creek and Ganaraska River rainbow trout than the shore based fisheries.” The exploitation at the time and possibly up until the regulation change last year was 48-50% from land based angling in the rivers with those fish, for the most part being wild. This study took place when the estimated ratio of wild to stocked fish in Lake O was 30% Wild to 70% stocked. The limits in Ontario were also 5/2 (sport/conservation) in the rivers – I don’t believe we can fully understand (or have seen) the impacts yet with the 2/1 limit which was only just recently implemented (within the last 1-2yrs). After all a good number of ‘hardcore’ steelheaders on these rivers still take their usual 2 fish for roe per trip anyway…The estimated ratio thrown around today for Lake Ontario seems to be 40% wild with 60% stocked. From the numbers I could find, NY stocked 701,940 rainbows into their Lake O streams in 1998 VS 564,550 stocked in 2006 (from what I could find, approximately 550,000 rainbows seems to be the average stocked each year). There also appears to be 25% natural reproduction on some NY rivers which I personally find pretty interesting – could we possibly see wild Skamania in Lake O rivers in the future? At this point, we can use the help of charter boats to support the fishery – As counter-intuitive as it may seem (even for me), crowded rivers and the people using and enjoying the resource (including those harvesting the odd wild rainbows) are ‘investors’ and ‘stakeholders’ to how our government perceives the importance of our natural resources – I was also told this by one of the board members who made the final decision to lower steelhead limits for our Lake O rivers (His name is Ed and can he sometimes be found steelheading the rivers with 2 of his black lab retrievers – Both love water as the steelhead at the end of my line noticed ). Perhaps one of the greatest threats to steelhead now (beyond angling), is the urban development taking place alongside many of the rivers…I don’t know if you’ve noticed but many of the rivers out east are silt choked ditches (they were before…Just way more so now) which may not exactly be the greatest habitat for steelhead to spawn in regardless of how many of them swim up. Sorry to bore you all to tears with all of this – I can’t imagine many of you finding any of this the least bit interesting…I’ve always been interested (and enthusiastic) about studying the biology (as well as the genetics) of the species I fish for in the hopes that it will make me a better (and more informed) angler.
Guest ThisPlaceSucks Posted June 17, 2010 Report Posted June 17, 2010 it's such a unique concept: a wild pacific salmon in the great lakes.
john from craa Posted June 17, 2010 Report Posted June 17, 2010 It looks like a great day fishing, but I also support what Joe is saying...that releasing more fish, especially steelhead that are heavily supported by natural reproduction is very important. Those are some nice fish and there is nothing wrong with a few fillets for the table, but in the southern Ontario area anglers must lead by example with higher levels of catch and release to sustain the fishery. For those of you who beleive the MNR is up to date and on top of limits and harvest...you are dreaming. The MNR has seen their budgets cut to the bone for the past 25 years. They have very little assessment budget and no creel data from Lake Ontario that stands up to scientific scrutny since 1995. We (and MNR) must look to New York for their data. The MNR has a roughly 15-20 year lag in response to population trends and not just in Lake Ontario. The limits were set long ago and have yet to be revised. As an aside, NY lowered the lake and tributary limit by 70% in 2006. Steelhead catch in the NY lake creel has jumped by almost 50%, yet steelhead harvest has decined from 90% of fish caught to less than 50% in the past 5 years. And per the MJL, I'm sorry to say the 2/1 limit on tributaries will only lower harvest by 3-4% based on numerous studies inlcuiding the data used to develop the Bowlby and Stanfield,2000 paper. Only a slot limit or minimum size limit on both the lake and river fishery will have a noticable impact on harvest levels and increase the population. Also regarding that study, they made the assumption that the run of fish to the Gannaraska and Wilmot was static (i.e. all the same fish, which is incorrect). If the run is say 10,000 fish in a given year to the river, the rivers actual population may be 15-20,000, as not all fish run to spawn every year and many younger fish (up to 12 pounds) may not have entered the river to spawn at all. This method under-estimates the actual lake harvest of the rivers population by 50-100%. Ask yourself why NY - which has a mainly stocked salmon and trout fishery has a limit of 1 steelhead on shore and 2 in the lake with a minimum 21" limit, meanwhile Ontario just lowered river limits to 2 from 5 in 2008 and the lake still stands at 5, yet our north shore fishery is 98%+++ wild fish. Or that the MNR and partners are trying to establish Atlantic salmon, but you can keep 1 over 24" in the lake??? A solid bet is if you are harvesting a fish from Lake Ontario, keep a clipper. Ontario clips all its steelhead and chinook. NY clips 1/3 of their steelhead and all their chinooks. Chinook salmon are also reproducing in larger numbers, as are browns, coho, steelhead and even some Atlantics. Most hatchery raised salmon and trout will have visable dorsal fin damage too. So if the belly fins are all intact, but the dorsal is half gone, or flat then you likely have a stocker that was not clipped, but suitable for keeping). Protecting wild fish will only become more important in time. Hopefully NY will move to clipping all their steelhead once again soon. As for levels of wild fish in the lake...until they clip everything the powers that be cannot give a firm answer, but only a best guess. However, looking at clip rates in creel data from the lake, plus stocking and clip rates I would 'best estimate' the following: Steelhead - 70% wild, 30% hatchery origin Chinook - 45% wild, 55% hatchery (based on 2009 creel only - first year class of clipped chinooks) Coho - 10% wild, 90% hatchery (limited creel data) browns - not enough lake data I also urge anglers to pinch all your barbs. Barbless hooks make release far easier, especially when your rigging in the lake. Plus eating fish from Lake Ontario is not on my list of 'things I consider safe to eat'! Tight lines, John Kendell President, CRAA
Headhunter Posted June 17, 2010 Report Posted June 17, 2010 When the Ministry decides to stop allowing anglers to fish for trout during their spawning season, I may take heed of your words. But at this point, I find it rather insulting that you are asking folks to release their fish caught in Lake O, while you are standing in a creek fishing for spawning fish. What makes one more right than the other? HH
Jet Posted June 17, 2010 Author Report Posted June 17, 2010 (edited) It looks like a great day fishing, but I also support what Joe is saying...that releasing more fish, especially steelhead that are heavily supported by natural reproduction is very important. Those are some nice fish and there is nothing wrong with a few fillets for the table, but in the southern Ontario area anglers must lead by example with higher levels of catch and release to sustain the fishery. No one here doesn't support catch and release fishing. But I find it concerning that you would take the opportunity to further fan the flame of an issue that doesn't even exist in this report. I kept some fish. Yes. Do I keep every fish I catch? No. I release 95% of the fish I catch of all species. But I post one report, Joseph decides to flame it and you take the opportunity to group myself and my party under the same blanket and use my trip as an example of why we "must lead by example with higher levels of catch and release to sustain the fishery." For someone in your position I'd expect much more due diligence and process. If I was posting report after report of limit-out steelhead fishing, I'd at the very least understand your reason for announcing your position. But to take one of my many fishing reports and use it as an example to validate your position is unfair and unappreciated. Edited June 17, 2010 by Jet
asdve23rveavwa Posted June 17, 2010 Report Posted June 17, 2010 When the Ministry decides to stop allowing anglers to fish for trout during their spawning season, I may take heed of your words. But at this point, I find it rather insulting that you are asking folks to release their fish caught in Lake O, while you are standing in a creek fishing for spawning fish. What makes one more right than the other? HH Very good point!!! I would have no problem with closing the inland rainbow trout season from January 1st to June 1st. It's a shame that this post has turned into another one of these wars. Let's just congratulate them on a good "lawfull" catch.
wallacio Posted June 17, 2010 Report Posted June 17, 2010 When the Ministry decides to stop allowing anglers to fish for trout during their spawning season, I may take heed of your words. But at this point, I find it rather insulting that you are asking folks to release their fish caught in Lake O, while you are standing in a creek fishing for spawning fish. What makes one more right than the other? HH It's unfortunate when someone's fishing report turns into a debate HOWEVER, IMO the debate about releasing wild Steelhead by the boat fishery is a good one and some common myths (ie Steelhead caught downrigging can't be released successfully) need to be debunked. First, where does the MNR allow for angling of actively spawning Steelhead in Ontario? Trout season is closed from Oct 1 until the fourth Friday in April ie when fish are spawning. Where extended and year round open seasons exist, they are only on the lower or middle reaches of rivers where the vast majority of Steelhead are not spawning ie Steelhead spawn in the upper reaches of our rivers which are protected by the closed season. Secondly, your point about Steelhead dying the minute they hit the upper water column is off base in my experience. The majority of Steelhead are found in the upper water column ie less than 50' down and if played and released quickly(ideally hooks removed while the fish is in a net which is in the water) they will swim away strongly. Following John's tip of pinching barbs helps get them back quickly as well and we usually forgo pictures in an effort to minimize the time they are out of the water. I for one would like to see this myth put to rest as far too many boat anglers simply dump Steelhead into the cooler because they assume that they cannot be successfully released.
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