I need the name of a good lawyer Sudbury area

[Big Cliff]

Kids bought a farm in the Sudbury area. Next door neighbor turned out to be a real jerk, has been giving them a hard time for a while now about anything and everything. The kids didn't get a survey done when the bought the place, they couldn't afford it but they suspected that some of the neighbor's buildings were actually on their property.

They just had a "building location survey done". Turns out the neighbor's house, septic system, deck, and a couple of out buildings are actually on their property.

 

The kids want to know exactly what their legal rights are and how they should proceed from here.

 

I have a feeling the neighbor isn't going to like what I think might be going to happen!

 

Can someone give me the name of a good lawyer in the Sudbury area who should be able to stear them in the right direction. JohnF ever run into anything like this before? Any advice anyone?

Edited June 2, 2010 by Big Cliff

[fish_fishburn]

ENCROACHMENT; The unauthorized intrusion onto the lands and property of another.

 

ENCROACHMENT AGREEMENT; An agreement permitting the encroachment of an improvement onto the ajoining parcel of land that may be registered against the title of both properties affected by the encroachment.

 

Application; Under the encroachment agreement the owner whose land has been encroached upon by the improvement essentially forebears from exercising his/her legal right to to require the improvement to be removed from the land. Encroachment agreements are often encounterd where one owner has inadvertently built a building, fence, or driveway over ajoining land.

This agreement may contain provisions that call for the removal of the offending improvement upon the happening of a future event,e.g. destruction by fire or wind, or by a specific time. The market value of the property may be adversely affected to the extent that a risk exists and/or that the offending improvement might have to be removed at a certian time or in the event of partial or full destruction by fire or other cause. Obviously this encroachment wasn't registered or your kids lawyer would of noticed it while doing a title search. Maybe have them talk to the lawyer that handled their legal matters for the purchase since he is familiar with their file.

[Muskieman]

Evi McDonald............ She's GREAT!!!

 

Saved a buddy of mine MILLIONS!!!!

and made another buddy of mine 150.000$ by suing Molson for him.

 

Randy

.

[bigbuck]

Too bad for the neighbour, if he complained before, just wait!!! I hope the nasty dude gets it where the sun don't shine. If 'his' buildings are on their property, I guess they should be 'their' buildings now, he can pay rent (not cheap) and that could help with the mortgage payments.

[TC1OZ]

I hope your kids purchased title insurance when they purchased the farm...

 

If not they are going to be paying for the lawyer.

 

But I guess that's why you are looking for a lawyer?

 

Talk to the guy who did the property transfer, he should know if he purchase the insurance. Most of them do as its only $150 and it covers their asses so they don't have to do title searches and lien searches on the property in question. This also includes encroachments.

 

 

Good luck, my 3 year lawsuit is going to court this year... Civil suits are a big piss off.

[Big Cliff]

Yes, they did purchase title insurance but I wasn't sure (and neither were they) what the next step should be, that is why I wanted to see what advice was available here and try to get the name of a good lawyer.

 

Randy, do you happen to have contact information for Evi McDonald?

 

so far I have told them not to say anything to anyone until they talk to a lawyer but I would like to get as much information for them as I can.

[TC1OZ]

Yes, they did purchase title insurance but I wasn't sure (and neither were they) what the next step should be, that is why I wanted to see what advice was available here and try to get the name of a good lawyer.

 

Randy, do you happen to have contact information for Evi McDonald?

 

so far I have told them not to say anything to anyone until they talk to a lawyer but I would like to get as much information for them as I can.

 

Everything is handled by the Title Insurance (if its covered). You call the place who holds the insurance, give them your information, they will ask for more details, bobs your uncle.

 

If they don't have coverage under insurance, hit up the yellow pages. My situation was not covered by my title insurance so I had to get a lawyer, but your case is 100% covered (if they got the right insurance). I have the "gold package" which is standard as per my lawyer.

[Garnet]

Sudbury is a smaller community with a lot of brother inlaws and second cousins. Think I might hire outside of the area.

[fish_fishburn]

Obviously your kids neighbour is in violation of the approved setbacks concerning septic systems and all buildings if there on your kids property. I would also do some homework at city hall on this matter.

[spincast]

good luck Big Cliff. This could get Bigugli (sorry Bigugli -- I just couldn't resist) as depending on the length of time those buidings have been there, squatters rights may apply. Used to be a lawyer in the Toronto Star Homes section that had all kinds of info on this. I'm sure if you searched the star home section you could find a few columns and get his name. He would likely know someone up there. Other way is to contact the real estate board and ask for a real estate specialist - you are going to want one who specialises in this field. Case law is all based on precedent - and you will want one who knows the right precedents for this. hope it all turns out the way it SHOULD.

[TC1OZ]

Ahhhhhh (quenched or refreshed noise) the internet. Home to a million different answers to one question.

 

Everyone look up title insurance. Your lawyer who helped you transfer the property into your name ALWAYS purchases it to cover their ass for cases like this. (this goes for any home owner)

 

Do you think the lawyer actually gets your properly line, and verifies it matches what the city has on file/what your purchasing? Nope... He's too busy for that.

 

If for some reason your city doesn't have your property information on file how are they charging you taxes?

 

 

 

Property lines are always kept by the city (or else they couldn't charge you tax on your lot).

 

And the fact that your neighbors stuff is built on your property falls under encroachment (private or public structures). This is covered by title insurance.

 

Most of the answers here are

[irishfield]

Title insurance won't cut it.. because it states "if we had of done a title search and if doing so it would have indicated XXXX" we will cover you. Title search will not bring up where buildings are located.. only a survey will do so and why it's always imparitive to make a survey a condition of sale. Title search will only tell you if the current home registered to the property was built with a permit.. had a final inspection for move in etc.

 

I'm sorry Cliff and I feel for the "kids", but it's gonna get ugly!

Edited June 2, 2010 by irishfield

[TC1OZ]

Title insurance won't cut it.. because it states "if we had of done a title search and if doing so it would have indicated XXXX" we will cover you. Title search will not bring up where buildings are located.. only a survey will do so and why it's always imparitive to make a survey a condition of sale. Title search will only tell you if the current home registered to the property was built with a permit.. had a final inspection for move in etc.

 

I'm sorry Cliff and I feel for the "kids", but it's gonna get ugly!

 

 

The insurance covers the title search when its not accurate... Hence "insurance".

 

Lawyer does a search, it says its OK, lawyer does the transfer. He buys insurance in case there are any issues that arise after the fact.

 

You find out about an issue, your insurance covers it. That's how it works.

 

 

Question Irish. Have you had this happen to you before? I am actually speaking from experience and I have actually contacted my lawyer, my city, home insurance, and my title insurance.

 

***

Edit to be nice

***

 

Where are you getting your information?

 

 

Tell the kids not to fret! You'll be fine.

Edited June 2, 2010 by TC1OZ

[irishfield]

Oh I also asked the guy down the street drinking a beer, his answer sounds like yours. Pulled out your

 

 

 

Strokes another one off his invite list..

 

Cliff, I sure hope it goes as smooth as TC thinks it will.. but you let us know how many nights sleep the "kids" lose over this and what it costs in the end!

Edited June 2, 2010 by irishfield

[Big Cliff]

 

Oh I also asked the guy down the street drinking a beer, his answer sounds like yours. Pulled out your

 

 

Tell the kids not to fret! You'll be fine.

 

TC10OZ I appreciate your input here but I think your reply to Wayne was totally uncalled for and very disrespectfull. In all my years on this board I have never had anyone offer me advice in bad faith and I always appreciate all views and opinions, they are what help me make informed decisions and often help me think outside the box.

 

I think you owe Wayne an apology!

[TC1OZ]

Strokes another one off his invite list..

 

Cliff, I sure hope it goes as smooth as TC thinks it will.. but you let us know how many nights sleep the "kids" lose over this and what it costs in the end!

 

 

I wish my lawsuit was as simple as someone having their structures built on my property.

 

If the city says its not their property and its off their property line, then they have nothing to complain about.

 

If it is their property, then title insurance WILL cover them. That's what its there for.

 

Feel free to take me off your invite list. Title Insurance is a general term and I know you didn't read their policy, nor do I think you've actually read any title insurance document. Now you do understand what a title search is, I'll give you that.

 

I don't offer my opinion when I don't know something... Sorry.

 

 

 

Sorry Wayne! When a home purchase goes bad and you have to learn all these rules its not fun.

 

I speak from first hand experience, just wanted to make sure people weren't misled.

Edited June 2, 2010 by TC1OZ

[danbouck]

[irishfield]

I know title insurance very well TC...

 

I was so p 'd off when I bought the camp and found out, at closing, that my lawyer had bought title insurance vs doing the actual searches. It amounted to being worthless... "what.. the septic isn't to code nor is there anything on the health department books that it exsists"... "SORRY..it wasn't a stipulation on your purchase agreement that the septic was installed to code!"

 

First time I've been caught because a lawyer was lazy and I've bought a lot of properties in the last 30 years. This was the first time "title insurance" was introduced to me.. and the last.

 

.. and Don't worry about it Cliff... they grow up at some point!

[Guest gbfisher]

I know title insurance very well TC...

 

I was so p 'd off when I bought the camp and found out, at closing, that my lawyer had bought title insurance vs doing the actual searches. It amounted to being worthless... "what.. the septic isn't to code nor is there anything on the health department books that it exsists"... "SORRY..it wasn't a stipulation on your purchase agreement that the septic was installed to code!"

 

First time I've been caught because a lawyer was lazy and I've bought a lot of properties in the last 30 years. This was the first time "title insurance" was introduced to me.. and the last.

 

.. and Don't worry about it Cliff... they grow up at some point!

 

 

Now what would you know about buying property....

[irishfield]

[TC1OZ]

lol

 

"what.. the septic isn't to code nor is there anything on the health department books that it exsists"

 

That's the same as someone else property existing on your property.

 

 

Encroachment is something completely different than your experience...

 

We'll see what happens!

 

I'm at home now and I can relax, lol.

 

I'm over it, sorry if I came off as an ass...

[fish_fishburn]

A Title Search if done correctly will tell you a heck of alot more than what TZ or Irish have said.

 

The buyers lawyer undertakes a title search at the land registry office in which the property is situated. An existing survey, if available is normally requested, before the title search. If in land titles the search involves all current information concerning the property as shown on the parcel register. In registry the search is for a period of at least 40 years, and involves an examination of the chain of title describing all transactions as well as any gaps, errors or missed parties.

In both instances the lawyer is looking for items such as outstanding encumbrances, restrictive covenents, and matrimonial home status. The lawyer will also investigate ajoining lands to ensure compliance with the Planning Act. The date of the search is recorded in anticipation of a sub-search at point of closing.

Then the lawyer will search various non-title records including but not limited to, zoning(to ensure that the present use conforms to zoning by-laws. Work orders,executions,unregistered easements, status of real property taxes including any special assesments, survey documentation concerning setbacks, encroachments and related matters.

[TC1OZ]

A Title Search if done correctly will tell you a heck of alot more than what TZ or Irish have said.

 

The buyers lawyer undertakes a title search at the land registry office in which the property is situated. An existing survey, if available is normally requested, before the title search. If in land titles the search involves all current information concerning the property as shown on the parcel register. In registry the search is for a period of at least 40 years, and involves an examination of the chain of title describing all transactions as well as any gaps, errors or missed parties.

In both instances the lawyer is looking for items such as outstanding encumbrances, restrictive covenents, and matrimonial home status. The lawyer will also investigate ajoining lands to ensure compliance with the Planning Act. The date of the search is recorded in anticipation of a sub-search at point of closing.

Then the lawyer will search various non-title records including but not limited to, zoning(to ensure that the present use conforms to zoning by-laws. Work orders,executions,unregistered easements, status of real property taxes including any special assesments, survey documentation concerning setbacks, encroachments and related matters.

 

I believe you are just talking about Irish only.

 

But I appreciate your input, it is more through than Irish's information. My lawyer told me face to face he does the basic search with the city and if nothing comes back red they purchase the insurance and sign it over.

 

But no one ever said lawyers are honest...

[irishfield]

lol

 

"what.. the septic isn't to code nor is there anything on the health department books that it exsists"

 

That's the same as someone else property existing on your property.

 

 

Encroachment is something completely different than your experience...

 

 

Well based on the title insurance document it is.... it states clearly in the(my) insurance document that "if it's found that the septic system wasn't installed to code at time of installation.. blah blah blah.. then we'll pay to fix it"

 

Catch is... offer to purchase didn't have a condition that stated that the septic was approved... so I ended up paying to have my septic done.

 

This could very well work out to be the same issue if they didn't have anything in their offer to purchase that there "aren't any encroachments known to exist on the property".

[fish_fishburn]

Also under the Ontario Building Code, A class 4 sewage system (A tank and leaching bed system) has to have minimum clearances. A well, 15 meters, a structure 1.5 meters, a stream 15 meters and a property line 3 meters just to mane a few.