Rainbows vs steelhead

[CLofchik]

The maximum recorded life-span for a rainbow trout is 11 years.[4]

 

Should also add that steelhead don't spawn every season, but mature fish will skip a year. 3 or 4 spawning runs is the most you can expect out of an entire life cycle.

[CLofchik]

Thats a lot of money for a yearling to swim down stream, hit the lake and then get attacked by something... how come it costs $1,500 per fish? I'm no fish rearing expert, certainly not Atlantics ( haha ), but that does sound like a big number for per fish.

 

That's not per yearling, but for returning mature fish.

Smolts & fry are only held in the hatchery over the winter, "yearlings" are raised from 16-18 months.

[Twocoda]

gotta love an educated debate...keep it clean boys and this thread might offer up some intelligent reading

[CLofchik]

gotta love an educated debate...keep it clean boys and this thread might offer up some intelligent reading

 

Rainbows spawn more than twice, steelhead are salmon but also genetically similar to rainbows, neither hits the Gulf of St.Lawrence and return to the Ganaraska.

And Atlantics are Teh Debil!

 

Lake O 'bows 101

[TDunn]

this thread might offer up some intelligent reading

 

Agreed! I don't know to much about the Lake O Atlantic program but I am very interested.

[Twocoda]

Rainbows spawn more than twice, steelhead are salmon but also genetically similar to rainbows, neither hits the Gulf of St.Lawrence and return to

 

steelhead are salmon??? or lake trout are char that fall in the salmon family?

[wallacio]

Now that American Eels are on the protected list like sturgeon for Ontario, wonder if some of the impediments between Lake Ontario and the Atlantic are going to be relieved to aid in their recovery? Saw an article somewhere recently that Steelhead that have been identified as from either Ganny or Credit stock are moving into Atlantic Salmon Rivers in the lower St Lawrence and/or Maritimes, obviously they are moving one way. Has anyone heard of any measures or studies planned to help the American Eel recover?

 

edit: Any measures could have implications for other species, good and bad.

 

Here's the study that you are referring to - interesting evidence that shows that (at minimum) Steelhead from Lake Ontario are moving down the St. Lawrence and are establishing self-sustaining populations along the St. Lawrence Estuary.

 

 

http://www2.bio.ulaval.ca/louisbernatchez/..._DivDist_09.pdf

[Roy]

steelhead are salmon but also genetically similar to rainbows,

 

unbelievable.....

[solopaddler]

Atlantics spawning successfully in the Great Lakes is nil.

Successful adult returns for fish stocked as fry & smolts is nil.

 

And you know this how? Do tell.

The project is in its infancy, the returns so far are encouraging. The fact that we support a wild steelhead population on lake ontario's north shore leads one to believe that it's possible to with atlantics.

 

The only returning adults in any fishable numbers were stocked as yearlings.

The amount of resources it takes to collect, hatch, feed & raise an Atlantic is exponential compared to every other specie currently being stocked.

 

That's the unassailable truth behind every Atlantic program on the Great Lakes. For the MNR to raise 40,000 yearling Atlantics would require the money & even more valuable hatchery space that's currently used for every other fish stocked in Lake O, which everybody except the MNR recognizes as a stocking dependent fishery.

 

So because it's difficult we should scrap the idea? If I thought that way I'd be living in a van down by the river.

[asdve23rveavwa]

unbelievable.....

[dave524]

Here's the study that you are referring to - interesting evidence that shows that (at minimum) Steelhead from Lake Ontario are moving down the St. Lawrence and are establishing self-sustaining populations along the St. Lawrence Estuary.

 

 

http://www2.bio.ulaval.ca/louisbernatchez/..._DivDist_09.pdf

 

Thanks, wonder if any of the Atlantics stocked in Lake Ontario are going the same route? would help to explain some of the low adult returns for the stocking numbers.

[Twocoda]

"So because it's difficult we should scrap the idea? If I thought that way I'd be living in a van down by the river."

 

 

I only wish the skamania projects thought like you....but then again ...im glad they dont cuz the shoreslines would be littered with van campers

[Dozer]

Damn, if i ever catch one I'm gonna club it over the head and have myself a $1,500 dollar fish dinner!

 

All jokes aside, if we are seeing returning adults who have been stocked as yearlings coming back than its a good sign... this sorta stuff just doesn't happen over night, takes years to establish, stocked or not... if a steel lays 3,500 - 12,000 eggs per spawn... and the survival rate of returning adult fish to redds is very, very, low... We're talking .1%... That salmon has to compete vs. other salminoids. I think it would be very difficult to have a successful bring back of the Atalantic... its gotta compete against 4 other river spawning fish!

[Dozer]

Steelhead are invaders and so are asian big head... we love one but hate the other!

[figureight]

Steelhead are invaders and so are asian big head... we love one but hate the other!

There is a difference between introduced and invasive species.

Edited March 4, 2010 by figureight

[splashhopper]

i never knew that a saltwater fish could survive very long in freshwater...

 

this is interesting....

 

Maybe i will toss some guppies in with the sharks !

[asdve23rveavwa]

There is a difference between introduced and invading species.

Bingo...steelhead (migratory rainbows) were brought to create a fishery.

Somewhere back in this whole mess I read that steelhead are salmon...since when?????? Salmonoids yes, they are not part of the pacific salmon family last I heard. Correct me if I'm wrong guys.

[pikeie]

Steelhead are invaders and so are asian big head... we love one but hate the other!

 

The fact is its just not the steelhead that are introduced species! all the salmon species are as well, like the chinooks, cohos and pinks. But most were introduced to help solve another problem.

 

i could/ have written essays on the salmon in the great lakes, heres a short way of telling a long story. Early in the 19'th century the lake trout fishery was at its peak! Once the numbers of lakers got decimated by over fishing, the Alwife populations sky rocketed! which was a problem because of the numbers of dead and rotting Alwife being washed up on the beaches after winter, known as winter kill. I belive Michigan was the first state to bring up the idea of stocking Pacific salmon into the great lakes. This worked wonders, untill the alwife population decreased to stable levels. soon after the new recreational salmon fishery also started to dwindle. All of the other states/ provinces followed suit and now that is why we have our pacific salmon fishery. I belive the Pink salmon was accendentally released in northern superiour, due to a power outage at a hatchery, they had no choice but to dump the brood stock.

 

I myself have been lucky enough to go to school in the soo, and to experience a phenomenal atlanitc salmon fishery! Which is pretty much all thanks to LSPU. I have never landed an atlantic... yet, but i have hooked them many ways. and let me tell you, i have never had a fish hit so hard and peel so much line that quick! i have hooked most of them on the fly rod which is a feat in itself! I think it would be very interesting to see an atlantic fishery in the lower great lakes, im sure alot of people would catch on to the thrill of these beautys!

 

EDIT

Yes they are now part of the Pacific Salmon family... Their name in latin is Oncorhynchus mykiss, with Oncorhynchus being the begining of all salmon latin names.

Edited March 4, 2010 by pikeie

[Dozer]

Eh, they are introduced fish that are invading... I should of clarified

[Guest steel'n'esox]

So thats where the ganny steelhead went 18,000 in 89 to 5,000 at present they went to the Atlantic via the St Lawrence swam at night so they wouldnt get eaten by the 40 acre shoal Muskies, and lake of 2 mountains esox and decided to stay there

[solopaddler]

Bingo...steelhead (migratory rainbows) were brought to create a fishery.

Somewhere back in this whole mess I read that steelhead are salmon...since when?????? Salmonoids yes, they are not part of the pacific salmon family last I heard. Correct me if I'm wrong guys.

 

As a matter of fact biologists reclassified them a few years back. They're now officially a salmon.

[asdve23rveavwa]

As a matter of fact biologists reclassified them a few years back. They're now officially a salmon.

Wow...I missed that one, must have been to busy fishing, lol!!! So the grocery stores were ahead of their time when they were calling them "steelhead salmon" all those years.

[Spiel]

As a matter of fact biologists reclassified them a few years back. They're now officially a salmon.

 

That may be so but they'll always be trout in my mind. I'm stubborn.

All white mouths and repeat spawning, both things true Pacific salmon lack.

 

Damn taxonomists....

[dave524]

As a matter of fact biologists reclassified them a few years back. They're now officially a salmon.

 

Trout?? seems to be layman's term , much like we refer to ducks, geese and swans all as waterfowl.

 

Here we have Rainbows and Cohos in the same genus, so they are salmon.

 

Likewise , Browns and Atlantics are the same genus , so, I guess they are both salmon too.

 

Lakers and Specs, we all know they are really char.

 

Taxonomically speaking, is there really such a thing as a trout?? Any wildlife biologists want to chip in?

 

As a forester, I got a handle on how all this taxonomic stuff works , but only related to plant material.

[Twocoda]

As a matter of fact biologists reclassified them a few years back. They're now officially a salmon.

 

this is going to make for some pretty darn good conversations at the weigh stations....

got a link ? apparently ive got some reading to do ....

 

 

 

That may be so but they'll always be trout in my mind.

 

i agree...its going to take me years to get used to the thought of catching a steelamon/salmout

Edited March 4, 2010 by Twocoda