Snowmobile Question

[danbouck]

I have decided to not get a trail permit this year because of the lack of snow. I would like to take the sled out on the ice or down a couple country roads a couple times this year. I understand that I need it to registered and insured but do I need a trail pass? It doesn't say I do on the government website but it says that I do on the OFSC website.

 

Anybody know exactly how it works?

[BillM]

If you aren't on a OFSC sanctioned trail, I don't know why you'd need a trail pass. You definitely don't need one to be out on Simcoe.

[Dara]

Only on the groomed marked trails. Get a trail map and stay off the red lines..or black..or blue..whatever they use. Anything else is a ok

[Sinker]

You need insurance, ownership, and a valid plate/sticker. Don't forget your helmet.

 

S.

[IndySKS]

Dan, i think Bill and Dara ave pretty well explained it. But if you need any more help let me know. I am the President of OFSC D5 and my wife runs the District office. Be glad to help out if you have questions.

[irishfield]

No sticker required for that Dan.. and if you have your fishing gear with you.. and using a trail on crown land that is the ONLY access to get to your lake of choice... you don't need one either.

[Dara]

Dan, i think Bill and Dara ave pretty well explained it. But if you need any more help let me know. I am the President of OFSC D5 and my wife runs the District office. Be glad to help out if you have questions.

 

 

I have a question

 

 

When are we gonna get enough snow to open the trails?

[boatman]

I have a question

 

 

When are we gonna get enough snow to open the trails?

 

I'd like to know that, too. My buddy and I both got our classic permits the week before the snow melted.

[IndySKS]

I have a question

 

 

When are we gonna get enough snow to open the trails?

 

 

Oh sure you couldn't start out with an easy question....lol

 

You know thats pretty scary question from a guy in Sault Ste Marie at the end of January. Winters are just not what they used to be anywhere.

 

If we could just get a good 6" to 8" dumping there would be some riding around here, but it's not looking good.

 

I have put about 40 trail miles on my sled and my second sled has yet to see a trail, so i understand your concerns.

[Dara]

Oh sure you couldn't start out with an easy question....lol

 

You know thats pretty scary question from a guy in Sault Ste Marie at the end of January. Winters are just not what they used to be anywhere.

 

If we could just get a good 6" to 8" dumping there would be some riding around here, but it's not looking good.

 

I have put about 40 trail miles on my sled and my second sled has yet to see a trail, so i understand your concerns.

 

 

To tell the truth, I have no concerns. They just got a major dumping in Grand Marais Mi and I'm heading there for a week starting tomorrow. A few guys cancelled and we have a spare cabin if you want to fill it

[danbouck]

Perfect thanks guys

[pike slayer]

first year in 6years i didnt buy a trail permit and thank god! after they raised the price again i said enough is enough cause only get out a handful of times in a season on the trails just not worth it anymore when it costs me $30-40 a ride to go on the trails. so far i have 120miles on the rmk on nongroomed trails pretty good for this crap weather haha!

[Handlebarz]

I have not bought one since they were less then $100 (I have also not owned a sled since then either )it seems that they have jacked the price way to high most people I know that have sleds just take a chance when they are on a trail as they will not pay almost $200 for a few days riding they figure the fine will be cheaper. I dont know what the fine is now but back when I was riding from the Garson chapter we could not give out fines just warnings for 1st and second time caught we could sell a permit for the trail.

 

It would only make scents to have a cheaper rate and get more people buying them I am willing to bet that there are alot of people like the ones I know who dont buy them and take that chance.

[musky66]

Sticky subject. Costs for everything go up every year, I believe insurance rates probably drive permit costs more than anything. You gotta know when you put a name on something ( trails) no matter what paperwork you have in place- you are going to be responsible for any accidents or issue son that trail. Now if everyone drove nice, obeyed the speed limits, never came around blind corners on the wrong side etc., it might not be such an issue. Back when my buddy and I rode- we avoided weekend trail riding like the plague. We rode on MOndays and put up with the beaten trails in order to avoid the weekend warriors. It is always a gamble, but you don't hear people offering to pay more for permits after a really good snow season, just complaining about the price after a really poor one.

Overall, the sport is very expensive and very regulated= mostly due to the popularity= more yahoos- more problems- more need for government involvement to protect us from ourselves, and to cover their butts. Remember when we didn't need a boaters card- same thing. SO many fools on the water that the government had to show they were doing something to ensure our safety.

[Sinker]

You would think they would offer a weekend pass, or weekly pass or something. All these people buying passes, no snow, no maintenance..............where does the money go? HMMMMMMMMM

 

S.

[danbouck]

You would think they would offer a weekend pass, or weekly pass or something. All these people buying passes, no snow, no maintenance..............where does the money go? HMMMMMMMMM

 

S.

 

They offer a 3 day for $100 and a 7 day for $140, kind of funny that it's that much, my vintage permit would only be $125

Edited January 30, 2010 by Dan Bouck

[tschirk]

I bought two passes this year and had 1 short ride... I am really questioning the value for money. My district (2) had snow but still haven't opened most trails. I know it is mostly volunteer effort & a ice storm, so I can' fault them for that but $250/pass is disgusting considering the Provincial government already blew a ton of our money on the OFSC. I haven't seen worthwhile value for my tax dollar..... :angry:

[Sinker]

They offer a 3 day for $100 and a 7 day for $140, kind of funny that it's that much, my vintage permit would only be $125

 

 

 

I wonder how much the fine is for tresspassing?

[danbouck]

 

I wonder how much the fine is for tresspassing?

 

It says minimum $200

[IndySKS]

You would think they would offer a weekend pass, or weekly pass or something. All these people buying passes, no snow, no maintenance..............where does the money go? HMMMMMMMMM

 

S.

 

Ok I'll try to give you the coles notes version of an explanation for this, yes there is a large number of Clubs that haven't groomed much at all or very little due to lack of snow but like you the Clubs can not predict if it's going to snow or not and when. The money spent on grooming/maintenance is a significant amount but in reality it's only a small portion of the Clubs expense's, they still have to go through all the motions of setting up trail and signing them, the insurance bill is always there, club house maintenance, trail improvements/culverts and bridges are upgraded...you get the idea. Low snow years are also know for high repair bills to the groomers too. So any money not spent on grooming will be spent somewhere else on the trails or if the Club is really lucky there just might be some left for a capital fund for replacing a groomer that can cost in excess of 150k. Trail pass money is spent on trails somewhere, it doesn't get spent on anything else and this is closely monitored by the MTO and OFSC auditors.

 

Now just to complicate this a bit more, each Club only gets to keep a portion of the permit sale price, this is based on a very complicated formula called a Matrix that averages a number of factors to determine this club cost of a permit, the remaining money goes to the OFSC to support OFSC programs and some is also spread around to area's that are in need of money. For example a club in northern ontario might have a long season and a substantial amount of trail and yet not sell enough permits to operate, some of the money collected by the OFSC goes to support these trails so they are there for all of us to enjoy. On the reverse if a Club sells a lot of permits and doesn't have snow to groom the matrix takes more money away from these Clubs since based on a provincial scale they could be over funded. It's not a perfect system but it dos work an there are very few Clubs across the province that have money in the bank at the end of the year.

 

Don't ever think because the cost of a permit there is extra money floating around, keep in mind the whole system is mostly operated by volunteers(appx. 7000) that for the love of the sport put their time in to create the trails and operate them, yes there are a few people that do get paid but it's only a small portion of the people that are needed to make it happen each year.

 

I hope this helps without going int too much detail.

[IndySKS]

 

I wonder how much the fine is for tresspassing?

 

 

Just to clear up a couple things,

there is 3 types of enforcement on OFSC trails.

 

Trail Patrol - usually a member of a local club, these people have the authority to lay a tresspass charge on trails that are on private property for which they have signed permission to be there by the landowner, a tresspass charge would be laid through local law enforcement pursued by the person or Club. This charge results in a visit to a judge and he determines the fine. Trail patrol are ambassadors of our sport and are there to check for permits and to assist where needed, thats all, they have no powers to lay provincial charges other than to enforce the trespass to property act as it applies to snowmobile trails.

 

Stop officers - these are special constables that work with local police to enforce laws on snowmobile trail. They do have the authority to lay charges just like an law officer. I'll stop at that cause im not an expert on Stop officers.

 

OPP/ local police - obviously have the authority to lay any provincial charge on a trail.

 

As for being caught on a trail without a permit it is highly unlikely a Stop or Police would charge you with trespassing as there is another charge that is failure to have a trail permit and i believe the fine begins at around $200.

[blue pickeral]

The trail permit at $200.00 (before Dec. 1) or $250.00 is pretty good value for the money if you are dedicated to the past time of sledding if you compare it to say a few rounds of golf, a new reel or lures bought over a season - it all depends on your interests. Snowmobiling is an expensive hobby - the trail permit is one of the smaller costs alongside cost of sled, insurance, trailer, etc. Your particular situation will dictate your comfort level with the costs...proximity to trails, weather for the year, your desire to travel other trail systems etc.

 

Sadly, the sport has fallen victim to yahoos, as the only qualification for snowmobiling is the capability to have / borrow the money needed to participate - and this in turn leads to some sort of self entitlement on the part of a minority of A wholes who have no regard for others.

 

Unfortunately, this reflects on the majority of snowmobilers who recognize that courtesy will keep the trails open.

Edited January 31, 2010 by blue pickeral

[IndySKS]

The trail permit at $200.00 (before Dec. 1) or $250.00 is pretty good value for the money if you are dedicated to the past time of sledding if you compare it to say a few rounds of golf, a new reel or lures bought over a season - it all depends on your interests.

 

Good post !

 

I had thought about the comparison to skiing and golfing before but until you related it to fishing, it never really sank in to me since i don't golf or ski. A perfect example would have been yesterday, I went to Angling Outfitters in Woodstock to talk to Joslyn about a new fish finder and without much thought came home with a new bait cast rod and reel instead, at about the cost of a trail permit, and that will be just one of many trips into a tackle store this year.

[Sinker]

Good post !

 

I had thought about the comparison to skiing and golfing before but until you related it to fishing, it never really sank in to me since i don't golf or ski. A perfect example would have been yesterday, I went to Angling Outfitters in Woodstock to talk to Joslyn about a new fish finder and without much thought came home with a new bait cast rod and reel instead, at about the cost of a trail permit, and that will be just one of many trips into a tackle store this year.

 

 

The difference is you WILL get to use that baitcaster as much as you plan on.

 

I have no problem with the price of the trail pass. Its the weather that burns me. Bring on the snow!!

 

S.