Transit strikes should be OUTLAWED - NF

[splashhopper]

Well the unions are gonna have their way, yet again, with the tax payers in the city of London..

 

I say this after the head of the local union made comments on the local AM talk radio station Friday that he was LOOKING FORWARD to Arbitration. Insinuating that the arbitration board will not be fair and they will get what they want..

 

what do they want you ask?..... SIXTEEN PERCENT increase ( wages and benefits combined) over 3 years !

 

This in a city with the second highest unemployment rates in the entire country... the tax base falling out from under us...

The city has offered them 8.5-9 % over three years. Seems reasonable in these uncertain times to me...

 

see here>>

http://www.ltconline.ca/

 

Hell, they are getting a damned good package as it is to DRIVE A BUS ... There are lots of unemployed eligible truck drivers that would LOVE to have the security of these guys packages and be home at night with their families !

 

The strike is going to DEBILITATE OUR CITY.... we have 65,000 post secondary students alone in this city of 350k !

 

My daughter is in her 3rd year at Western and has staggered classes all week,,,, sometimes she doesn't finish class till 10pm....

some days she is at school for 8 am....

 

She relies on that transit system like so many other working people here...

 

I think the transit systems in ALL CITIES should NOT BE ALLOWED to strike.... they should be considered an essential service just like the EMS teams...

 

At the end of the day, the union now has the city by the short and curlies and the city is in a NO-WIN situation..

 

If they give in to the RIDICULOUS demands of the union, they are NOT doing their jobs as administrators of a city in financial stress.

 

If it goes to arbitration, our drivers will be compared to cities like Toronto, Hamilton, Ottawa etc...

How UNFAIR is that? The cost of living is not as heavy here as those other cities.... so why should we be expected to pay the same rates?

(I personally made a decision to NOT return to Toronto after a business loss here in London a number of years ago and that decision was due to the HIGHER COST of living that I endured for 13 years there previously.)

 

The arbitration "system" in this province needs some SERIOUS review and oversight of PEOPLE that know the value of of a dollar and understand an open market trade system.

 

As of tonight, my wife and I will be trying to coordinate rides to the opposite side of the city for our daughter classes, DURING OUR OWN WORK SCHEDULES!

 

We are somewhat fortunate in that we have two drivers in the family.

 

But....

 

What about the families that don't ?

 

What about all the workers that don;t have cars ?

 

What about the students?

 

What about the environment?

 

 

 

My bottom line here....

 

TRANSIT SYSTEMS should NOT BE ALLOWED to strike...( see hold ENTIRE communities hostage !)

Edited November 16, 2009 by splashhopper

[BillM]

Transit employees should be under the 'essential services' group, ie they can't strike..

 

How can someone complain about a 3% raise per year? In these conditions? Unreal....

[rob v]

3% a year is a lot more than I,ve gotten over the past 3years.

 

And to expect parity with larger cities is ridiculous. Go live there if you want their salary scale.

Edited November 16, 2009 by Rob V

[splashhopper]

soooo,, WHY am I posting on OFC at this time of the morning you may ask?

 

BECAUSE I AM WAITING TAKE MY DAUGHTER TO UNIVERSITY on the other side of the city due to the "HOSTAGE TAKING " by the LTC UNION !

 

The chief negotiator for the UNION said:

1: " he WELCOMES arbitration...." doesn't sound like "good faith" to me !

 

2: "they have made BIG concessions from where they started".... they are still looking for FIFTEEN PERCENT !

 

3: " they are behind their counterparts in other cities" ..... well move THERE then..!

 

 

This HOSTAGE TAKING is gonna be weeks long.... weeks.....

 

And in the end the drivers may get an increase that they can "settle" for but will have lost whatever their wages were for the length of the strike.....

Oh I get it, they must think it will be a short strike...

 

I don't think so, the local population is TICKED !

 

So far, the population is behind the city,,,,, but the union is banking on the fact that the HUUGE inconvenience will put pressure on the city to give them what they want...

 

For Today I say, stick to your guns Anne Marie DiCicco ( London's mayor) and let the UNION starve..

 

Or hey, Pull a RONALD REAGHAN and FIRE THEM all if they get don't back on the road....

 

There is one helluva lot of UNEMPLOYED QUALIFIED drivers ( see laid off AZ truckers) out there that could drive these buses locally. And, there one helluva lot of unemployed SKILLED workers looking for work in the London region that are QUALIFIED to turn wrenches on these buses...

 

 

 

I

Edited November 16, 2009 by splashhopper

[wallyboss]

Hopefully the Strike isn't as long as the one we went thru last year in Ottawa. Traffic was mental. I agree that they shouldn't be allowed to strike, they might not be essential to everybody, if the bus is your only way to get to work you might be in trouble.

There was a story about an elderly woman in Ottawa, a new immigrant that had finally found an overnight job in a grocery store to be able to survive, but that store was across the city from where she lived, on the bus she had to transfer 3-4 times. She couldn't afford a taxi everyday and had no friends that had a vehicle, it used to take her if I remember well 4-5 hours to walk at a very slow pace(because of her age) in the middle of January. So she was walking 4-5 hours to work, worked her 10 hour shift, then walked back home. sleep 4 hours and do it all over again. She didn't want to quit her work as she said she would've had to go on welfare and she didn't want do that. after a month and a half, one of the local newspaper wrote a story on her and people started to offer her drives to and from work. But to the transit drivers it was more important for them to make more money. Some had year salaries over $100,000(with all the overtime) not too bad for 4 years of University?? (bit of sarcasm entered here).

[splashhopper]

Hopefully the Strike isn't as long as the one we went thru last year in Ottawa. Traffic was mental. I agree that they shouldn't be allowed to strike, they might not be essential to everybody, if the bus is your only way to get to work you might be in trouble.

There was a story about an elderly woman in Ottawa, a new immigrant that had finally found an overnight job in a grocery store to be able to survive, but that store was across the city from where she lived, on the bus she had to transfer 3-4 times. She couldn't afford a taxi everyday and had no friends that had a vehicle, it used to take her if I remember well 4-5 hours to walk at a very slow pace(because of her age) in the middle of January. So she was walking 4-5 hours to work, worked her 10 hour shift, then walked back home. sleep 4 hours and do it all over again. She didn't want to quit her work as she said she would've had to go on welfare and she didn't want do that. after a month and a half, one of the local newspaper wrote a story on her and people started to offer her drives to and from work. But to the transit drivers it was more important for them to make more money. Some had year salaries over $100,000(with all the overtime) not too bad for 4 years of University?? (bit of sarcasm entered here).

 

Hell, if the drivers had University degrees, I would have to seriously wonder WHY they are driving a bus? No offense to any University educated drivers here.... but really, come on... it doesn't take a BA to drive a city bus !

[Woodsman]

Transit employees should be under the 'essential services' group, ie they can't strike..

 

Well the unions are gonna have their way, yet again, with the tax payers in the city of London..

 

I say this after the head of the local union made comments on the local AM talk radio station Friday that he was LOOKING FORWARD to Arbitration. Insinuating that the arbitration board will not be fair and they will get what they want..

 

TRANSIT SYSTEMS should NOT BE ALLOWED to strike...( see hold ENTIRE communities hostage !)

 

I just don't get it. You want to prohibit strikes but you also don't want binding arbitration.

Essential services that are prohibited striking have the right to binding arbitration. You can't have it both ways.

[splashhopper]

I just don't get it. You want to prohibit strikes but you also don't want binding arbitration.

Essential services that are prohibited striking have the right to binding arbitration. You can't have it both ways.

 

 

I didn't say i don't want arbitration... i said there needs to be a review of its process..... comparing "living cost allowances" for Toronto vs London is ridiculous.

[Woodsman]

This strike is going to end one of 2 ways.

Either the city goes back to the table offering a little more or it will go to binding arbitration eventually.

Arbitration will most likely cost the city more.

The only way this will be a short strike is if the city agrees to put more on the table or agrees to arbitration with the provision that the union returns to work in the mean time.

It's in the city's hands now and being hard headed will only prolong the strike.

[Fishnwire]

Simply deming them an essential service and taking away their right to strike is not the answer. Look at the police union in Toronto. They're not allowed to go on strike, but I lived down south for years and every time their contract came up they made huge gains. If anyone questioned it, they were reminded how the police were an "essential service" and as such, worthy of whatever raises, extra days off and perqs they were asking for.

 

Not having access to a service you're used to sucks and I don't blame you for being mad. I'm not sure what the answer is but what you're suggesting won't work to your advantage in the long run. IMO anyway.

[Dara]

I don't think any government services should be allowed to strike.

Call it a condition of the cash for life job.

You don't like it...don't work there.

 

And somehow, MP's and MPP's should have raises voted on by the public

Edited November 16, 2009 by Dara

[FLEX ROD]

I will spell this out,

 

If they go on strike, people can not get to work, if people can not get to work they can not make money, if they cant make money the government can't tax and collect, and if the government does not collect tax money the 16% is USELESS TO THEM BECAUSE THEY WILL NOT HAVE A JOB!!

 

So yes they definitely should not be allowed to strike.

 

FLEX

[Headhunter]

I would "Regan" them all! HIt them so fast they didn't know what happened to them... isn't funny how those in the public service feel that they are "entitled" to anything they want?... with no care what so ever to the ramifications of their actions, on others.

Regan them, -plain and simple.

HH

[Dara]

I will spell this out,

 

If they go on strike, people can not get to work, if people can not get to work they can not make money, if they cant make money the government can't tax and collect, and if the government does not collect tax money the 16% is USELESS TO THEM BECAUSE THEY WILL NOT HAVE A JOB!!

 

So yes they definitely should not be allowed to strike.

 

FLEX

 

 

We get taxed anyway, and as soon as they get a raise, we get taxed more to pay for it...the money for government is endless

[FLEX ROD]

I would "Regan" them all! HIt them so fast they didn't know what happened to them... isn't funny how those in the public service feel that they are "entitled" to anything they want?... with no care what so ever to the ramifications of their actions, on others.

Regan them, -plain and simple.

HH

 

You could not be be more correct and though in a Maggie for good measures.

 

FLEX

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

in the original post you say "Hell, they are getting a damned good package as it is to DRIVE A BUS", making it seem like what they do is no big deal, then you go on to say it should be an essential service?

 

so which is it?

 

they are clearly VITAL to the lifeblood of your community and should be payed well as such. perhaps they are asking for more than you want, but what group of workers WON'T do that if they can! just look at the auto unions!

[spinnerbaitking]

! just look at the auto unions!

 

& look what happened to them

Rishard

[splashhopper]

in the original post you say "Hell, they are getting a damned good package as it is to DRIVE A BUS", making it seem like what they do is no big deal, then you go on to say it should be an essential service?

 

so which is it?

 

they are clearly VITAL to the lifeblood of your community and should be payed well as such. perhaps they are asking for more than you want, but what group of workers WON'T do that if they can! just look at the auto unions!

 

 

ummm.. if you are going to quote me,,, maybe put the entire sentence in so that it isn't taken out of context >>>

 

"Hell, they are getting a damned good package as it is to DRIVE A BUS dry.gif ... There are lots of unemployed eligible truck drivers that would LOVE to have the security of these guys packages and be home at night with their families !"

 

I don't get your "point" with the auto unions.... unless of course that was tongue in cheek... and we all know what is happening to those overpaid unions now.

[Headhunter]

Doc... I understand where you are coming from, I think... I thought that way as well, when I was young and hadn't gotten tired of over paying for everything.

I have gotten to the point I am now, based on paying huge income taxes, huge property taxes huge _______ you fill in the blank, for decades.

I feel like I am trying to fill a black hole, with money. The more I give it, the more it needs...

So Doc, with that little bit of perspective for yah, can you understand the frustration many of us feel when we are under the impression that we are yet again, getting hosed.

There is only one true comparisson, between driving a bus in Toronto, (where I live) and driving a bus in London (where I grew up) and that is that both are driving a bus! You simply can't compare driving in London, to driving in Toronto...PERIOD!

In a time when most people's incomes have been slashed, to ask for, no strike that, DEMAND that kind of an increase, jsut goes to show the mind set of the "entitled"

FIRE 'Em ALL! (Aesthetically speaking of course!)

HH

Edited November 16, 2009 by Headhunter

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

clearly you acknowledge that they are very important as you suggest they should be an essential service, yet you don't want to acknowledge that is what gives them the bargaining power and dictates that they should be well compensated. i'm not necessarily siding with them but stating they are SOOOOO important actually gives them more power. pointing out how much this disruption affects you empowers their cause.

 

i'm not sure where i stand on it...i saw the ottawa transits strikes reek havoc on friends there, so i know how much these disruptions hurt. that said, when it comes to these disputes i always take the side of the worker over the government or a corporation.

 

i also don't like talk of taking a workers right to strike away. you definitely won't win that argument with me. i'm a public servant and without these rights to bargain and strike my wage would be even lower than tradesmen, autoworkers, and others.

Edited November 16, 2009 by Dr. Salvelinus

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

hahaha...headhunter...i'm working on my "old man" bitterness right now.

i certainly never have any money and i'm learning the ropes of the gov't tax bendover...especially when i watch friends who barely finished highschool make more than i do in trades etc.

 

that said, these drivers are looking out for themselves, something we all do with regards to our work.

 

i'm not agreeing with the bus drivers, i'm merely disagreeing with the notion that they shouldn't have the right to negotiate their own salaries. both sides have a responsibility to the public to meet and the table and develop a satisfactory resolution.

[splashhopper]

clearly you acknowledge that they are very important as you suggest they should be an essential service, yet you don't want to acknowledge that is what gives them the bargaining power and dictates that they should be well compensated.

 

i'm not sure where i stand on it...i saw the ottawa transits strikes reek havoc on friends there, so i know how much these disruptions hurt. that said, when it comes to these disputes i always take the side of the worker over the government or a corporation.

 

I am acknowledging that they are an essential service and THAT is waht gives them bargain power.... but that power is lop-sided when it holds other people HOSTAGE who cannot do a damned thing about it.... ie... the tax-payers

 

I don't always take the side of the employee ESPECIALLY when it comes to the "entitled" culture of government employees.

 

I have no issue with bargaining for better packages.... but NOT when it holds people hostage that cannot affect the outcome of the bargaining process.

 

To "always take the side of the employee" ( see rest of sentence above).... suggests to me an anti-authority complex and be damned with the consequences of innocent HOSTAGES as long as "the man" doesn't get his way.

 

There are real people getting their lives disrupted here today and for however long this strike will last.

 

This is not some theory that we are all gonna lay out pros and cons for and write up a thesis...

 

At some point there has to be a shakeup of this "entitled mentality" of government workers ( Maybe do as another poster here suggested and "Maggie Thatcher" them) and let the chips fall where they may... how bad could it really get?

Reaghan's planes are still flying and the UK's country didn't fall apart.... when those LEADERS took a stand against HOSTAGE TAKING.

[Headhunter]

Doc, the bitterness will come! Trust me, especially when you get to a point in life where your long standing ideals have been beaten to death, by those who we empower to do good on our behalf.

HH

[Dara]

clearly you acknowledge that they are very important as you suggest they should be an essential service, yet you don't want to acknowledge that is what gives them the bargaining power and dictates that they should be well compensated. i'm not necessarily siding with them but stating they are SOOOOO important actually gives them more power. pointing out how much this disruption affects you empowers their cause.

 

i'm not sure where i stand on it...i saw the ottawa transits strikes reek havoc on friends there, so i know how much these disruptions hurt. that said, when it comes to these disputes i always take the side of the worker over the government or a corporation.

 

i also don't like talk of taking a workers right to strike away. you definitely won't win that argument with me. i'm a public servant and without these rights to bargain and strike my wage would be even lower than tradesmen, autoworkers, and others.

 

 

What about Firemen, Police, Nurses..they can't strike and they do ok.

 

The service the bus drivers provide is essential, but it doesn't take a PHD to do the job so why should they be paid as one.

College proffesors are again about to go on strike. Should our children put their lives on hold so these people can make a few bucks more?

I'm getting tired of it. Companies are going bankrupt from too high taxes and pensions are being lost in the process, but bus drivers are entitled..come on..lets get Rae Days back

Edited November 16, 2009 by Dara

[FLEX ROD]

What about Firemen, Police, Nurses..they can't strike and they do ok.

 

The service the bus drivers provide is essential, but it doesn't take a PHD to do the job so why should they be paid as one.

College proffesors are again about to go on strike. Should our children put their lives on hold so these people can make a few bucks more?

I'm getting tired of it. Companies are going bankrupt from too high taxes and pensions are being lost in the process, but bus drivers are entitled..come on..lets get Rae Days back

 

 

Dara, as one that is employed by the public sector, if as mentioned "Rae Day" or two is required so be it, I a, grateful to have a job and if that means it stimulates the economy the so be it. But, what we need is some logical decisions being made by the people who allegedly know what they are doing.

 

FLEX