20 years ago

[Guest steel'n'esox]

Seems like yesterday but 20 years ago the record number of steelhead over the fishway at the Ganny occured with 18169 fish counted, there was also at least 10,000 fish below the ladder as well, records fell on all Lake O tribs with the Willy at about 15,000 fish as well, the total run today is one fifth of what it was back then, the climb started in 1895 and ended in 1991, you can google corbett fishway and see the numbers, and learn about the fishways operation

[xeon]

What was the reason for the decline?

[DRIFTER_016]

I remember those days...........................................

 

 

 

Then they stopped stocking and left a 5 fish limit and the rest is history.

[BillM]

Didn't stocking actually lead to a pretty big decline in stock? Trying to mix and match different strains etc etc. Perhaps the MNR did more harm then good trying to mess with genetics.

 

I am sure the cormorants and a million other contributing factors had something to do with it, lol

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

cormorants? i think you've read too many ofah pamphlets!

[BillM]

cormorants? i think you've read too many ofah pamphlets!

 

I was thinking more of the Lake Huron/GBay fish

[Abberz]

Don't want to be a downer but you sound like one Darryl Cronzy

[MJL]

Back in 2003 or 2004, Float Fishing.Net held a seminar in Pickering/Ajax about the Ganny and Wilmot. The biologist there (can’t remember his name) mentioned that those 18,000+ fish were mostly wild fish.

 

Various things can affect fish stock

- Bait fish populations in the lake

- Rising temperatures in headwater streams due to climate change or deforestation along the river banks which can affect the baby steelhead

- Degradation of stream habitat due to urbanization and development

- Foreign invaders (lampreys and whatever competes for bait fish)

- Catch and keep fishing (I think I read that there was like a 40-50% harvest rate for the Ganny or something like that)

- Predation from cormorants

And More

Edited February 28, 2009 by MJL

[aniceguy]

let me sum it up somewhat to 2 things, Filter feeders in the lake had a dramatic effect on these numbers as did a dramatic reduction in numbers stocked, the lake will not be what it was back then unless we dump millions of tonnes of phosphates back in to promote alge development...the lake is simply to clear to have those numbers again, and IMO the lake is fairly healthy and producing robust fish.

Harvest had and continues to be a major factor, with a close to 40% harvest rate its a declining fishery

MJL summed it up fairly nicely its one of the major reasons that in the current climate catch and release or harvest reductions need to be in place as regulatory measures so that they become in line with sustainability,harmonization with the US on its limits would be one of the best things to happen to the lake as it in my opinion would lead to bigger and more fish while at the same time we need to continue with working to reconnect forest buffers, urbanization storm water managment and sorce water protection barrier mitigation and more to promote biodiveristy within these watersheds....

Edited February 28, 2009 by aniceguy

[douG]

Wow. You guys know your stuff.

 

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

harvest sounds like a much more logical reason behind decline than lumping it on the cormorants.

unfortunate for the cormorant argument the scientific data doesn't support those claims.

http://www.on.ec.gc.ca/wildlife/factsheets...rmorants-e.html

Edited February 28, 2009 by Dr. Salvelinus

[Sinker]

harvest sounds like a much more logical reason behind decline than lumping it on the cormorants.

unfortunate for the cormorant argument the scientific data doesn't support those claims.

http://www.on.ec.gc.ca/wildlife/factsheets...rmorants-e.html

 

This is good reading material!

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

 

if some special interest groups had their way we'd be culling populations of a naturally thriving species...

Edited February 28, 2009 by Dr. Salvelinus

[xeon]

 

if some special interest groups had their way we'd be culling populations of a naturally thriving species...

IMO

Definitly a very touch subject.

 

Im not questioning the OFAH biologists, but I think that their views have been pushed aside or they may have the blinders on if they fit into the angler or hunter group. In their view, sure theres evidence to the contrary, but majority of the people that pay them to represent them believe that the cormorant is some sort of apocolipse happening to the fish. Try telling some of the worlds most stubbron people theyre wrong, and youre going to be looking for a new job.

 

My personal thought on this, like any other species the population is due for an eventual mass decline, followed by a natural balance. The birds wernt there in the same numbers for many years, and in that time, their habitat has flourished, and its only a matter of time before that deminishes; and again will reach a natural balance. Mother nature doesnt take crap from cormorants, she'll sort em out.

[canadian_copper]

NICEGUY SUMMED THAT UP NICELY!!!

HARVEST RATE WAS UNREAL BACK IN THE DAY!!

I DONT FISH OPENER ANYMORE CAUSE OF WHAT I SEEN JUST BOTHERED ME!!!

ABOUT 7 YRS AGO I FISHED THE UPPER GANNY ON OPENER!!!

THERE WERE ABOUT 20 GUYS FISHING A HOLE BELOW ME!!

AT ABOUT 1AM I HEAR 2 GUYS COMIN UP THE PATH IN THE DARK!!!

1 IS PUSHING A WHEEL BARREL LOADED TO THE GILLS WITH MATURE SPAWNING RAINBOWS!!! THE OTHER GUY WAS FALLOWING HIM PICKIN UP THE FISH THAT FELL OUT OF THE BARREL IT WAS SO FULL!!!

NOW IM SURE IT WAS ALL IN THE LEGAL LIMITS SINCE THERE WERE 20 OF THEM AND AT 5 FISH U CAN DO THE MATH!!!

EVER SINCE THEN I DONT DO OPENER!!!

NO MANY ON HERE CAN SAY THEY FISH RAINBOWS MORE THEN ME. ONLY GUYS LIKE SOLO AND DRIFTER 16 AND A FEW OTHER!!! AND FOR AS MUCH AS I FISH I ONLY HARVEST 2 HENS A YR FOR ROE!!!

SO WHAT YA DO WITH 5 IN ONE DAY IS BEYOND ME!!!

JUST MY 2 CENTS

[Garnet]

This is post 1 for me and the subject is something that I was very involved with.

 

Those peak steelhead #'s came the years after the dam broke in Elizabethville and the wall of water flooded Port Hope. That year we had large snow fall and a flash thaw. All the creeks along the north shore were at flood stage for several weeks. So what happened, basically ever creek was a spawning bed from the mouth to the head waters and the recruitment was unbelievable for about 4 years then the silt started building back into the creeks and the spawning success declined.

 

Over fishing was very targeted then only the Ganny, Wilmot had all year open season and were hit hard after opener.

 

 

At the time I was very involved in Bowmanville Creek Anglers then Durham Region Anglers we also helped start Metro East Steelheaders and Credit River.

 

The MNR really didn't know what they were dealing with and at the time and didn't think opening the rest of the creeks necessary. We were determined to but a fish ladder in Goodyear Dam and were blocked by "no suitable spawning between GoodYear and Vanstones".

 

I used the MNR words to get all the creeks opened below the tracks on the northside of Lake Ontario. So I take some credit for getting lots of kids fishing Oshawa and the other more urban creeks. Those words were why the Goodyear Fish Ladder got installed, the new owner of Vanstone's got greedy holding water back and the dam was breached so we got the OK.

 

It was a different time and anybody trying to do MNR work was not well received so a couple long hair 20 something fishing freaks set about getting $80,000 to build and install a fish ladder. Trust me we were scared to death.

 

Theirs lots more we started the Atlantic program, Chinnooks were only stocked west of Duffy's we gather all the clubs east of Duffy's and blew the MNR reasons out the door. we had the Bowmanville boat ramp installed.

 

So how will the peak runs return, this year had major potential large amount of snow but we have had a very slow thaw to date. Theirs still plenty snow in the bush so maybe.

 

It was fun times and any ? my memory is fading so you better ask.

 

Garnet

[ehg]

let me sum it up somewhat to 2 things, Filter feeders in the lake had a dramatic effect on these numbers as did a dramatic reduction in numbers stocked

 

Reduction in stocking and effects of Zebra Mussels sounds like good reasons for decline in #'s.

 

Zebra mussels changed the Bay of Quinte and Kawartha fisheries substantially as well.

[Guest steel'n'esox]

Charter guys can still take 6 people out, and keep 30 bows, with a five fish limit, the two fish limit took about 8 years to get, we just assumed that would occur on the rivers and lake O, as they are the biologists and would do the right thing (2 fish limit across the board) but we were wrong. Thats the problem today government has too much control over issues they no nothing about, be it the fisheries healthcare, or how to raise or children.

We have a declining fishery, healthcare issues and crackheads and needle heads all over the place, and the gun registry, maybe the hynting crowd could reinlighten us that waste of tax-payers money

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

where the government fails to legislate anglers, all we can do is set examples for others...

 

most of my friends are fairly conservation minded, but once in a while i find that just setting a precedent of keeping the odd fish, putting back the broodstock etc., it seems like even the most stubborn of "kill what you catchers" slowly come around...

[john from craa]

A long time since I posted here (had to re-register). But it is a favourite subject of mine as some of you know.

 

There is no question in my mind that harvest is by far the leading cause of the decline in steelhead numbers in most rivers. Steelheading has changed a great deal in 25 years and so has the fishery. I started fishing steelies in the mid 70's as a child with my dad on the Pretty and became a steelhead bum in the mid-latter 80's and enjoyed the good old days and have been working hard to try and bring them back since it all fell apart.

 

Other factors such as zebra muscles and cormorants are partial factors, as are many other changes to the lakes. However the rivers are generally getting better, colder and more stable flows as past reforestation projects grow. Exceptions to this are in areas adjacent to urban sprawl. Steelhead access to spawning grounds and stocking are factors but this is on a river by river basis. Example, The Credit had huge runs 20 years ago because MNR stocked 100k of yearling steelhead and they had access past Norval for quite a few years (steelhead cannot reproduce below Norval, but have very high juvenile levels above the dam).

 

Those huge runs in the Ganny 20 years ago were 99% wild fish. None of those rivers had stocking and stray rates were quite low.

 

The wording I have used elsewhere recently; we are fishing for the leftovers or crumbs from what we once had.

 

Fishing pressure on steelhead increased dramatically between 1988 and 1995. The causes included chinook salmon runs drawing thousands of river anglers in fall who then realized these hot fall chromers were even more fun, many fishing magazines writing articles and naming rivers, runs, etc, and of course several fishing shows naming the river they were on. Prior to 88 the Ganny harbour was pretty quiet in March, but a couple articles and it went from 20 guys to 200 (and the fishing was hot). Or the Willy, went from 2-5 cars in 1988-90 pre season to 200 cars in 93-94 due to fishing shows highlighting the creek. I recall a show on the Willy aired in late May one year. I was passing by and had planned to see if any dropbacks were left - there were over 50 people fishing the S bends and everyone I spoke to had 'seen the show'. With a liberal limit of 5 it was slaughter city. One morning I saw over 1,000 dead pre spawn chromers walk off the lower Willy and garbage cans filled with gutted huns at the Ganny. Enforcement was not much better then either! Prior to 1985 almost all steelhead harvest was after opening day. By 1990-95 most presure was on pre-sapwn fish and we still had major post opener harvest. Around the same time the lake anglers discovered the blue zone and targeted big numbers all summer. High pressure fishing went from a 2 week window to almost 52 weeks a year on the population.

 

Today pressure is somewhat reduced (fewer anglers and fewer fish), but it is still far too much. Still many pre spawn fish being killed, lake harvest and still the post opener harvest. Louis (aniceguy) told me about another eastern trib two years ago on opener. He was into a good pool and was fishing c & r. Meanwhile another 'group' of anglers was hauling them out as fast as they could, taking 30+ fish home. Sound's like CC's post without the wheelbarrel.

 

On Gbay/Huron the MNR's creel stats showed changing from a 5 fish to 2 fish limit would only drop harvest by 4% and going to 1 fish would only cut it back 13% (this is form the 96-98 era). The target to bring the fishery back was a 50% reduction in harvest up there. Sadly we still have major harvest issues.

 

The numbers on Lake Ontario are similar. LOMU's creel data for the Willy and Ganny show harvest rates for steelhead are 35-50% each year. Studies done indicate a 15% harvest is sustainable (ie. Swanson, Brule R, etc). A 2 fish limit does little to improve things. Only further protection such as slot limits or minimum sizes can acheive the needed harvest rates. The only thing keeping the fishery afloat is high release rates already.

 

Examples of population growth after reduced harvest: The Brule River, Wisconsin. A minimum 26" size limit was established many years ago. The fish population grew dramatically (200-300%). Portage Creek example - with zero harvest and a detailed ongoing study the population has incresed well over 300% (up to 500%). Check out the link www.northshoresteelheaders.com and look at portage creek data. Silver Creek (Collingwood) - a small stream about 8 feet wide. No study, just my 30 years history having lived near it and growing up fishing it. In the early 80's it had a big run of steelies. Opener had several hundred fish in the upper section. By the early 90's intense pressure and harvest cut the run dramatically. The same reach may have had 50 fish rather than 200-500 in prior years. About 8 years ago MNR closed the stream until May 31. The last few years the same section has 200-400 fish again. Sadly we had to loose a fishing spot in the process.

 

I would rather see lower harvest rates through smaller limits on steelhead so we can retain our fishing access and allow the population to re-build. Controlling zebra muscles, etc is beyond our control. Limiting over harvest is within our control. Catch and release survival rates on steelhead are very low (1-2% mortality) from most recent studies.

 

Harvesting a fish for dinner is fine...if the population can sustain it. If every angler fishing the Ganny kept only 1 fish per year the run would still be 100% harvetsed (with a run of 4,000 to 7,000 fish per year).

 

We can keep fishing for crumbs. Or we can do something about it and get the bakery back. 50 fish days for steelies were once common.

 

John

President, CRAA