Bailout fails

[forrest]

Comparing autoworkers with the Mob, is like comparing Paris hilton to Charlie manson.

I am on the ladder taking a 10 percent pay cut beginning in Febuary for these pampered workers at gm. Most of my co-workers will be laid off...

 

Like I said welcome to the real world. I been in it for awhile, never got handed a job to me because I was born at the right time...

 

Well there goes your credibility, do people now have an excuse not to take you seriously?

 

I didn't say "the Mob" I said "a mob" as in a collective of people.....how could you get the two mixed up?

 

forrest

[misfish]

Its funny you would want them to fail..YOU WOULD BE OUT OF WORK and a burden to society IE ...UNEMPLOYMENT or worse WELFARE... DUH

 

Out of work yes he would,but the rest of your comment is .

If your a worker,then theres jobs out there. Like I said,if your a worker.

 

 

 

 

 

I gots to hold my tounge here.

[Sugarpacket]

If you have a mortgage it could be a problem, unless of course you live with mommy.

 

 

As Urban Fisherman said Rich doesn't live with mommy, although I'm his sons mommy I'm not his, he does work hard to put a roof over our heads and food in our mouths. I'm pretty sure what he was trying to say is that it is a giant change but he and I both know families that have gone through being laid off and have worked hard and adapted to keep food on the table.

 

People assume that if there is a giant lay off then people will just sit on their bum and collect EI which isn't the case, just going through for my parental leave I know there is a delay of months just to be able to qualify and then you have to jump through more hoops to finally get your pay. Also may I add that these people have contributed to their EI and are tax paying citizens. Not everyone can wait for the process to go through (people with families) so they will do what many have done before and grab the first job they see. But when one is laid off and has no other skills EI gives the option of being trained in another field so you can once again work in another industry, meaning you aren't going to have to support some able body person to sit on their butt when they can they will be doing it themselves. If you think about all the workers that would have to go through school, income assistant programs and other government assistance it may not total the amount of the bail out in the first year but over time it may come close to being equal. I have a friend whose mother and 62 year old father are officially laid off from their plant as of Christmas eve. Her father is too old to look for another job but still to young for CP retirement, with our fingers crossed they said they may give him and early retirement package.

 

Huge lay offs will effect everyone unless you are Jeremiah Johnson and live in the mountains and don't buy anything. If more government assistance is needed taxes will go up. Like in the 30s great depression when they invented the Manufactures Sales tax (now I'm pretty sure that its called gst) It was only a short time fix to help the economy get back on its feet but we still have it today now its just has a different name. Basically what I'm trying to say is taxes will go up therefore wages will go up to try and equal out the taxes and when the wages go up (if your Tim Hortons addicts you may have noticed) the price of everything else goes up to within almost 24 hours. to put it more plainly the more taxes people have to pay the more money people will have to make to pay them the more money people need to make the more they have to charge for the product, therefore its going to affect everyone.

 

As for the big 3, who wants to buy a cheaply made car for a few years and spend more money fixing it then they paid? Rich and I can't afford a car at the moment but even though gas has gone down it is just repeating the same pattern as before, the summer will come and the prices will go up. Us not having a car isn't a protest to buying Canadian cars but simply we know that with our income and expense buying a cheap car paying the fees, the gas, and the repairs would only make our situation harder in the long run so we are choosing to wait so we can afford a properly made car (local or foreign) that won't break down every other year. Now since we can't be the only ones that think this way that is undoubtedly part of whats happening. Honestly my opinion is let the big talkers that sit and shuffle the paper work take a pay cut with the workers cut down on the flashy pretty details and get back to making the car a reliable automobile that they should be, it doesn't have to look pretty just run good. I wouldn't buy a Dollar store rod made out of tooth picks and shiny paint because it looks better and is cheaper than an Uglystik, would you? If they shape up in the next few years get the reputation and sales back up maybe they might be able to reimburse the bail out. Who knows and this is just my opinion but lets not do childish things such as name calling and teasing if we don't share the same ideas, we are adults here.

[Rich]

If you have a mortgage it could be a problem, unless of course you live with mommy.

 

Wouldn't know, as I moved out when I was 19. Stayed with my parents for 2 months after college and moved out again.

 

I'll see what the guys who were laid off with families at my work say to that though. I mean obviously if they're working their butts off at a low wage, they're living it up easy with their folks eh?

 

Anyway, the point of my post was.. people will encounter rough times because of this, but the hardy will work hard and survive. Why? Because it's their only choice. If a mortgage is the most important thing in your life, maybe it's time to look harder at priorities.

Edited December 13, 2008 by Rich

[sirfish]

Anybody with a University degree working as an assembler at an auto-plant has wasted their education, and the taxpayers dollars.

You do not know what I do, so how do U know I couldn't"follow you around".

Yer perty good makin' yer own generalisations".

And.. I don't hide from nobody!

 

 

Last time I checked We paid for our own education...so.... why would we be wasting taxpayers $$$$

 

You are right I don't know what you do that , but how would you like to work an 8 1/2 hr day with only 2 ten minute breaks and a 23 min lunch? If you have to go to the washroom you put a light on and hope a team leader sees it before you almost piss yourself or worse. Your job is all timed. you have 23seconds to do each job before it takes off....and you don't want to miss it because then the next guy has to pick up your slack and he's not happy. Does it sound like you "want to follow me around ".....I think not.

Some days I liken my job to the show on T.V about worst jobs. It's not somewhere where I want to go but it pays the bills.

[forrest]

Last time I checked We paid for our own education...so.... why would we be wasting taxpayers $$$$

 

Universities are subsidized by tax payers dollars. But, that is a moot point because a lot of people do not use the skills they learned in school....life just worked out different than they planned.

 

forrest

[sirfish]

Out of work yes he would,but the rest of your comment is .

If your a worker,then theres jobs out there. Like I said,if your a worker.

I gots to hold my tounge here.

[/quote/

 

Why are you so full of hate???

 

I thought OFC was a friendly community site.

[misfish]

Why are you so full of hate???

 

I thought OFC was a friendly community site.

 

Hate, hate, hate,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ME.

You dont EVEN know me.

The ones that do,know I dont HATE,I just dont like somethings.

[misfish]

BTW,How did you get my GREEN MONSTER jig????????????LOL

[misfish]

Wouldn't know, as I moved out when I was 19. Stayed with my parents for 2 months after college and moved out again.

 

I'll see what the guys who were laid off with families at my work say to that though. I mean obviously if they're working their butts off at a low wage, they're living it up easy with their folks eh?

 

Anyway, the point of my post was.. people will encounter rough times because of this, but the hardy will work hard and survive. Why? Because it's their only choice. If a mortgage is the most important thing in your life, maybe it's time to look harder at priorities.

 

 

RICH,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[pigeonfisher]

this is getting heated...

 

From another perspective...I go to bed at night and worry about the 350 families that rely on me to make the right decisions during these times. My wife and children often cry as I tell them I need to make another trip, or work another night to see customers and visit our other facilities so that we can work out a program to get through this together. Everyone is making sacrifices, if you think that only the autoworkers are being asked to make sacrifices you are sadly mistaken.

 

I would expect that many of the families that rely on me will be doing so with a pay decrease next year, as will I and the rest of the management group. I pray that we won't have to put through any layoffs; however, we may. If we do it will be for the benefit of the many. When we come through this our company will be stronger.

 

Before you "blame" anyone I might suggest that you turn to your neighbours, co-workers and friends; ask them what they are doing to help. Make sure to ask the guy in the mirror as well.

 

Get off your horse, go to work on Monday and as what you can do to help.

 

I am ready to do whatever it takes to get through this thing. Anyone else want to join me?

[Guest steel'n'esox]

Approximately 600 GM employees are taking the early retirement package in Jan 09, This includes for each employee a 35000 dollar vehicle voucher and a 75000 dollar early retirement buyout package, not to mention employees who have worked one week per month to keep their benefits going and collected 90 percent of their pay for the other 3 weeks, and this has been going on for the last year, then GM has the nerve to ask us the taxpayers for money, as well as the other 2 of the big three. The blame falls directly on the big threes management, the CAW, and to a lesser degree the employees. You made your bed now sleep in it, taxpayers did not create your problems you did, Merry christmas to all and to all a good day

[misfish]

I am ready to do whatever it takes to get through this thing. Anyone else want to join me?

 

Steve,

We are doing it,and yes, I am aswell, like I said before.

I will do what I can, til theres no more to give.

After all,WHO THE HELL WANTS TO START OVER.14 YEARS is alot of time,well to me it is.

Keeping it family. The bussiness that is.

[Zebco]

Wow where do you get your facts !!! GM St Catharines has the highest quality for all of NAO. with a 95% first time quality rating and rising in plant. GDX in Welland where weatherstripping is made for a multitude of vehicles ,domestic and foriegn was the most efficient and fully agile of all the other plants . The only reason for the downsizing is new ownership not based in Canada. As for the hinges i don't know the facts so I won't comment.

 

Its funny you would want them to fail..YOU WOULD BE OUT OF WORK and a burden to society IE ...UNEMPLOYMENT or worse WELFARE... DUH

 

 

I get my facts first hand, i have to go to these plants to fix there mistakes. As for st. kitts having the highest quality thats the biggest joke I ever heard. I would hate to see the quality from the other plants. I only deal with parts from St. kitts and there all the ones with problems. You guys make nothing just put the crap together and your bragging about quality... What kinda quality? You guys are good at putting another companies parts on your vehicle and taking all the credit and the pay. Very high quality in pay, is only quality I see...

 

I will be out of work for a second, but it aint hard to find another job for the same pay I was making, I can work. 8 1/2 hrs a day is nothing, thats a short day! Heck maybe even get educated like you assembly workers. I can only see good coming outta this for my side. Im only 28 and I feel this will help ppl my age... Time to cut some dead weight.

Edited December 13, 2008 by Zebco

[hammercarp]

Zebco. I am having trouble understanding your post. GM does not produce the parts and it's your job to fix problems with those parts. I'm kinda lost.

I read all you guys saying you can work hard and that will get you through this. Your forgetting that there has to be an economy for someone to hire and pay you. People have to have the money to pay for the goods and or sevices you intend to provide.

[forrest]

I get my facts first hand, i have to go to these plants to fix there mistakes. As for st. kitts having the highest quality thats the biggest joke I ever heard. I would hate to see the quality from the other plants. I only deal with parts from St. kitts and there all the ones with problems. You guys make nothing just put the crap together and your bragging about quality... What kinda quality? You guys are good at putting another companies parts on your vehicle and taking all the credit and the pay. Very high quality in pay, is only quality I see...

 

I will be out of work for a second, but it aint hard to find another job for the same pay I was making, I can work. 8 1/2 hrs a day is nothing, thats a short day! Heck maybe even get educated like you assembly workers. I can only see good coming outta this for my side. Im only 28 and I feel this will help ppl my age... Time to cut some dead weight.

 

Basically, you are saying screw everyone over X years of age...oh well.

 

Zebco, you sound like a guy who likes a good fight. Go to the after work watering hole, repeat what you said here and have fun!

[Zebco]

Sorry I ruffled a few peoples feathers, just my opinion. I'm not saying screw everyone over such an age, I just find it outrageous the money you make to do the job that you do. It's not rocket science we all know that. If you are say 55 years old, I imagine you have your house paid off working for Gm, your kids college is paid for, you have nice vehicles. Why do you still need to get paid what you do, when a million guys under 40 could come in and do it twice as good?

[Bernie]

I didn't know Zebco's were made for trolling .

[sirfish]

Sorry I ruffled a few peoples feathers, just my opinion. I'm not saying screw everyone over such an age, I just find it outrageous the money you make to do the job that you do. It's not rocket science we all know that. If you are say 55 years old, I imagine you have your house paid off working for Gm, your kids college is paid for, you have nice vehicles. Why do you still need to get paid what you do, when a million guys under 40 could come in and do it twice as good?

 

 

Think again Zebco. most of the 30ish that are coming up are allergic to hard work....unless it involves getting to level 5 on thier PS3 . You couldn't round up a 100 let alone the million that could hold a candle to any line worker.

You assumtion of the 55 crowd is just that..an assumption. You have no idea what life has dealt them.

I have a Christmas wish list...I wish I didn't have a Mortgage..but I do, I wish I had a newer car, but I guess the old 2004 one has a few more years in it. I wish I could afford to help send all 3 kids to university but according to you guys i don't deserve my job so it looks like community college if thier lucky. I wish peace and goodwill toward my fellow man but today you are not on the top of my list ...and tommorow does'nt look good either.

But you are right , it is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

[Jer]

All last year it was easy to blame the oil companies ,now with the low oil prices its the Autoworker to point the finger at. ......When this blows over who will you naysayers point the finger at...United way ? welfare recipients? Handicapped persons ? Have you no consience .

 

 

Wow...are you honestly comparing yourself (auto workers) with handicapped persons? Have you no shame?

 

A case in point to how the average "auto worker" has lost touch with reality.

[Cookslav]

I didn't know Zebco's were made for trolling whistling.gif .

Just about spit out my coffee...LOL!

 

At the end of the day A government bail out is only a temp solution...

Its not changing anything.

It will only DELAY the end result, thusly wasting Tax dollars that could potentially prop up social services during this tough time for not only the Autoworkers but the other 90% of needy people out there....

All last year it was easy to blame the oil companies ,now with the low oil prices its the Autoworker to point the finger at. ......When this blows over who will you naysayers point the finger at...United way ? welfare recipients? Handicapped persons ? Have you no consience .

 

This is about as ridiculous a comment as I have ever heard...

Really?

Your putting yourself on the same level of hard luck, and circumstance, as the handicapped, and less fortunate?

2 words for you.

"Boo-hoo"

We all have to hold our own, and business plans need to change by means of nessesity.

It has been shown time and time again the companies will not change their direction, and niether will the unions so the only logical course of action is to let the peices fall until the ship is light enough to sail on her own again.

people will encounter rough times because of this, but the hardy will work hard and survive.

A-fricken-men!

 

My God?

Have people forgotten how to adapt?

I guess its easier to ask for hand outs then beat the pavement...

Edited December 14, 2008 by Cookslav

[Chris]

Just wondering how many of the "bailout" supporters feel that other businesses outside of the auto industry should get a government bailout as well. Please let me hear your response to this question sirfish, outlaw, hammercarp and others.

 

Out here in eastern Ontario there have been over 4,000 jobs lost in the past 5 years with several major factories closing their doors. I know for a fact what Nestle's employees here in my home town were making before the place closed and it was approx. half what an auto assembly line worker makes (with nowhere near the benefits). Not one of these factories received "bailout" or should I say "taxpayer" money. Why should the auto industry get it when nobody else does. I know it's only 4,000 jobs (ya ONLY 4,000 jobs) but when you compare it to the population in eastern Ontario it's probably just as devastating as things are in southern Ontario.

 

From Sirfish

You are right I don't know what you do that , but how would you like to work an 8 1/2 hr day with only 2 ten minute breaks and a 23 min lunch? If you have to go to the washroom you put a light on and hope a team leader sees it before you almost piss yourself or worse. Your job is all timed. you have 23seconds to do each job before it takes off....and you don't want to miss it because then the next guy has to pick up your slack and he's not happy. Does it sound like you "want to follow me around ".....I think not.

Some days I liken my job to the show on T.V about worst jobs. It's not somewhere where I want to go but it pays the bills.

 

Oh for cryin out loud boo hoo. You think nobody else else works those hours. How would you like to be a construction worker putting in 14 hour shifts in 30 degree C+ weather shovelling dirt or a pipe-fitter crawling under a rusted out 110 degree C+ piece of equipment to weld pipe for 10hrs. I could go on and on and name thousands of jobs that pay less but work you harder than pushing buttons on a robot that does all the lifting.

 

I truly feel bad for anyone losing their job, but anyone who believes their high paying job in the auto sector is more important than anybody elses job really needs to bring themselves back to reality. It just seems that anytime the taxpayers money is involved there is a proprtionate lack of reality that goes with it.

[Cookslav]

Well said!!!

[FISHINGNUT]

Just about spit out my coffee...LOL!

 

At the end of the day A government bail out is only a temp solution...

Its not changing anything.

It will only DELAY the end result, thusly wasting Tax dollars that could potentially prop up social services during this tough time for not only the Autoworkers but the other 90% of needy people out there....

This is about as ridiculous a comment as I have ever heard...

Really?

Your putting yourself on the same level of hard luck, and circumstance, as the handicapped, and less fortunate?

2 words for you.

"Boo-hoo"

We all have to hold our own, and business plans need to change by means of nessesity.

It has been shown time and time again the companies will not change their direction, and niether will the unions so the only logical course of action is to let the peices fall until the ship is light enough to sail on her own again.

 

A-fricken-men!

 

My God?

Have people forgotten how to adapt?

I guess its easier to ask for hand outs then beat the pavement...

 

Well said Cookslav .

This time last year I lost my job due to slow downs ,no one was there to bail out my company so why do the big 3 auto workers feel so entitled that there jobs and families are more important than mine? I took a $15000 pay cut .It sucked but my family still has a roof over there head and food in there bellies .I have a mortgage and car payments too just like the big 3 auto workers so were was my hand out .Quit whining get off your find another job and stop asking for hard working tax payers money to save your jobs .I my self have given enough in the last year to help my self and my family and I am not willing to lose any more of my money be it in taxes or whatever to bail these guys out

Edited December 14, 2008 by FISHINGNUT

[Zebco]

Think again Zebco. most of the 30ish that are coming up are allergic to hard work....unless it involves getting to level 5 on thier PS3 . You couldn't round up a 100 let alone the million that could hold a candle to any line worker.

You assumtion of the 55 crowd is just that..an assumption. You have no idea what life has dealt them.

I have a Christmas wish list...I wish I didn't have a Mortgage..but I do, I wish I had a newer car, but I guess the old 2004 one has a few more years in it. I wish I could afford to help send all 3 kids to university but according to you guys i don't deserve my job so it looks like community college if thier lucky. I wish peace and goodwill toward my fellow man but today you are not on the top of my list ...and tommorow does'nt look good either.

But you are right , it is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

 

 

You sure are full of yourself. All these troops over in Afganistan making far less then you, they couldn't hold a candle to Canada's Finest Sirfishalot! I'm sure there allergic to work aswell. Maybe your kids play ps3 all day, mine likes swimming and soccer. Not my fault you said you been working since the 80's at GM and still don't have your house paid for. What did you do with all your money? I would be sweating now too.... You tell me my assumption about people over 55 is just an assumption then you go make a remark about people under 30. My father is 60, hardest worker I ever met. Even he agrees that the Big 3 makes way more $ then there worth! His house is paid for and he never worked at GM hmm.