Most important broadcast you should listen to

[holdfast]

tta

 

Well Holdfast I will only indulge in this because I believe you truly are curious of what makes me tick, and that others may glean some knowledge from what I'm about to type.

 

You probably expect an answer in 40 words or less so I will try (mind you it doesn't involve blowing up hippies or a-rab teyer-ists so it might be boring to you):

 

The solution is to wake people up to what is going on. That's the only way.

 

If the people don't wake up (planet wide) with enough critical mass within the next 3-4 years, the "society" that you would die to defend, will be no more. And believe me, if people wake up to what's being perpetrated against them, society as we know it is done for anyways. But at least the people will be in control of their own destiny.

 

By the way, a little history on the origin of the term Holdfast links it to an ancient Roman term to hold steady or firmly, or to fasten. The term actually stems from the ancient Roman symbol at the bottom of this post. It's called a Fasci and yes it is associated with the other word. It was Mussolini's favourite symbol and you might be surprised to see it's current use, such as the U.S. Congress chambers, the U.S. dime. Funny place for such a symbol, is it not?

 

The "society" as you put it was never the people's society to begin with. It was forced on us, and built using our ancestor's sweat and blood and earnings. It was always the elite's. Everyone makes the mistake of thinking that it is theirs and it is not. Now should people try to save it as it is now, or should they try to save it as it was in their grandfather's time? Or should people wait to try to save it as it will be in our grand children's time? Perhaps they should not save it at all... hmmm...

 

Can I expect you to understand this? Or that even in your lifetime western "society" has changed drastically since even your father's time. This would be easy for you to dismiss as a protective reaction to "terrorism" because that is what you are trained to believe having a military background. I saw your recent post of a training camp your were involved in and it was quite clear that it involved "urban wargames", at least by the look of the mock raids on a mock residential dwelling.

 

Did you ever consider that this training and the militarization of the police forces (automatic weapons, body armour, armoured vehicles), and the sudden condoned acceptance of using military in the streets, is not for "terrorist" activities, or even that the term terrorist has been applied to a widening body of actions by citizens that may be construed as being anti-government such as protesting or someone that falls behind on their taxes? You should... but I suspect you will not.

 

I am not anti-society. I am am very much anti-global agenda.

 

It's funny you should mention the "waste of rations" term. The global elite think of everyone except their own kind as "useless eaters", this would include you and me.

 

I have in the past posted many links to "Gloom & Doom Sayers" as you call them. My own views based on research from the root documents have also been stated here many times. As I've said before, the agenda, how the banks and corporations, military, and government sponsored terror etc. tie in, and the time frames have all been documented and published to the public by the ruling class for everyone who has ears to hear and eyes to see. Unfortunately not very many have bothered to pay attention, hopefully you will start.

 

The link I posted at the top of this thread is an audio link to Alan Watt, one of the best researchers into the elite agenda there is, this man is a Scottish Canadian who lives a meagre existence in Estaire Ontario, and has devoted his life to exposing this agenda. He has documents that date back to the Sumerian and Babylonian era until today, including declassified government and think tank documents that spell it out, and everything I have researched and what he presents is being implemented like clock work. That particular broadcast is only 45 minutes of your time, and it will give you some detail of a small portion of the agenda in play.

 

As a military man, I'm sure you can appreciate that wars aren't good for anyone, even soldiers. It would be prudent of you to investigate the start of some military actions around the world and not just accept what you have been told up until now.

 

Here are some key words, of staged incidents that turned into major conflagrations (or could have):

-Sinking of the Lusitania

-Reichstag Fire

-Operation Gladio

-USS Liberty

-Gulf of Tonkin (look for declassified docs)

-Operation Northwoods (look for declassified docs)

 

That's all I can tell you. I didn't give you any (new) links. I can't make you look at anything, or force you to understand. I can't undo what has been done with years of military training. Only you can do that. That link at the top is a start. I can tell you that there are thousands of military personnel on both sides of the border that now understand what they have been fighting for, and it's not freedom or a way of life. They are scared to death, because they are being trained to turn on their fellow countrymen very soon

 

 

Id like to thank both you and Cram for answering my Question. LundBoy, you remind me of my Brother, but his only excuse is he had brain damage due to an accident when working in Fort St John on jugline looking for oil. I came home one day and he had spikes around his neck and wore leather. After a few beers he bragged about how he was at the GATHERING. He then tells me that there was music, Wacky tobacky, and scientists lecturing in some field North of Mtl. Curiously I said what gathering. He blurts out THE RAINBOW GATHERING. I near choked on my beer. later on he says how I suck off society IE being a soldier. I looks at him and says. But your on Welfare and you never ever paid taxes, ever. You drive without a licence, you always borrow money and never pay it back. That's when he chased me around the camp fire with an axe.

 

My problem with you is how you can con screw things to put your belief across to me or others. First of all, Holdfast is a Radio Pro Word meaning Combat Engineer. We use Holdfasts to secure lines or Ropes to the ground for Gyn and Shears or guy lines. Has Diick to do with Fascists, Congress or any other thing you dreamt of.

As far as urban training, if you didnt know the terrorists like the cowards they are will hide with the civilians including Women and Children. You should see what they do to anyone that opposes them As far as using it on our own civilians, Possibly as we sometimes had to replace prison Guards, or break up riots overseas. Don'T forget about the Natives that thought it was OK to shoot at cops. But Canadian Soldiers if ever always AID our CIVILIANS. They can get nasty like the FLQ for instance. Ask my Dad how he felt as a letter Carrier those days when the letter Bomb was the fashionable thing.

 

All I got to say Lundboy is you remind me of a Jehovah Witness going door to door. You can never argue with them because they will take the Bible and con screw that if you question them on anything. By any chance are you young and smoke dope and watch Dr Who

[irishfield]

By any chance are you young and smoke dope and watch Dr Who

 

..not that there's anything wrong with that ! LOL

[Guest lundboy]

tta

 

Id like to thank both you and Cram for answering my Question. LundBoy, you remind me of my Brother, but his only excuse is he had brain damage due to an accident when working in Fort St John on jugline looking for oil. I came home one day and he had spikes around his neck and wore leather. After a few beers he bragged about how he was at the GATHERING. He then tells me that there was music, Wacky tobacky, and scientists lecturing in some field North of Mtl. Curiously I said what gathering. He blurts out THE RAINBOW GATHERING. I near choked on my beer. later on he says how I suck off society IE being a soldier. I looks at him and says. But your on Welfare and you never ever paid taxes, ever. You drive without a licence, you always borrow money and never pay it back. That's when he chased me around the camp fire with an axe.

 

My problem with you is how you can con screw things to put your belief across to me or others. First of all, Holdfast is a Radio Pro Word meaning Combat Engineer. We use Holdfasts to secure lines or Ropes to the ground for Gyn and Shears or guy lines. Has Diick to do with Fascists, Congress or any other thing you dreamt of.

As far as urban training, if you didnt know the terrorists like the cowards they are will hide with the civilians including Women and Children. You should see what they do to anyone that opposes them As far as using it on our own civilians, Possibly as we sometimes had to replace prison Guards, or break up riots overseas. Don'T forget about the Natives that thought it was OK to shoot at cops. But Canadian Soldiers if ever always AID our CIVILIANS. They can get nasty like the FLQ for instance. Ask my Dad how he felt as a letter Carrier those days when the letter Bomb was the fashionable thing.

 

All I got to say Lundboy is you remind me of a Jehovah Witness going door to door. You can never argue with them because they will take the Bible and con screw that if you question them on anything. By any chance are you young and smoke dope and watch Dr Who

 

as expected... perfect response. If you can't argue your point with knowledge and reason and backup documentation, just attack with slander and belittlement... is that what they taught you to do in the military? To dehumanize someone in your mind so that they are reduced to a an easy target?

 

Go back a little further in the root of the term holdfast, it goes ba... aw nevermind, go back to your beer and dancing around a campfire.

 

Sorry I tried

Edited November 13, 2008 by lundboy

[Guest lundboy]

Who is this Forrest guy? He keeps posting stuff that has nothing to do with the thread. Weird.

 

Lundboy -- that's an interesting video. I don't really see (or agree with) the conspiratorial conclusions they're drawing, but some really interesting history that i had no idea about. Also, the subject is remarkably on-topic considering what's happening to the economy today. Many of my friends in finance don't get where the US money is coming from. Not just that its being loaned by foreign bodies (esp. China), but the fact that the US just keeps printing money with little regard for inflation. We're facing tough times ahead. I don't think society is going to crumble and go Mad Max on us, but there is going to be a deep recession wtih lots of folks facing the toughest times of their lives.

 

 

keep in mind that central banks aren't limited to the U.S., and Canada has one too. It is run by the very same world bank, and works on the same principals. Also the U.S. does not print money... that is the private federal reserve's job. The U.S. Government, or any government just borrows the money at interest from the fed, using treasury bonds (public IOUs against the citizenry) as collateral. The money is issued out of thin air. The bonds are then sold on the bond market, so in effect the central bank gets paid more than twice for it's money out of thin air.

Edited November 13, 2008 by lundboy

[holdfast]

keep in mind that central banks aren't limited to the U.S., and Canada has one too. It is run by the very same world bank, and works on the same principals. Also the U.S. does not print money... that is the private federal reserve's job. The U.S. Government, or any government just borrows the money at interest from the fed, using treasury bonds (public IOUs against the citizenry) as collateral. The money is issued out of thin air. The bonds are then sold on the bond market, so in effect the central bank gets paid more than twice for it's money out of thin air.

Maybe we should go back to Trading furs for Mirrors. Opps, that means killing animals.

 

I JUST CANT WIN

[Guest lundboy]

Maybe we should go back to Trading furs for Mirrors. Opps, that means killing animals.

 

I JUST CANT WIN

 

There's a lot to be said for the barter system, maybe you should start stocking up.

[cram]

keep in mind that central banks aren't limited to the U.S., and Canada has one too. It is run by the very same world bank, and works on the same principals. Also the U.S. does not print money... that is the private federal reserve's job. The U.S. Government, or any government just borrows the money at interest from the fed, using treasury bonds (public IOUs against the citizenry) as collateral. The money is issued out of thin air. The bonds are then sold on the bond market, so in effect the central bank gets paid more than twice for it's money out of thin air.

 

I get that stuff, and its interesting (had no idea about the history), and its possibly even being over-manipulated (esp right now), and while it enriches a few at the expense of others........without debt we don't have an economy. Its as simple as that.

 

New inventions never get commercialized (or invented at all). It becomes virtually impossible to build a business. You and I both die in the exact same economic class we were born into. The system may not be ideal, but debt enables us to have non-zero sum economic systems that give us an opportunity to enrich our lives.

 

On the other hand, the US debt may cripple that country for the next 10 yrs. And if not, cripple some generation ahead of us. Their system is very, very, very broken.

Edited November 13, 2008 by cram

[irishfield]

Printing money, with no gold backing it, has gone on for way too long.

 

Now crams statement

You and I both die in the exact same economic class we were born into

I have issue with. Yes Welfare is a "hereditary disease".... and I've seen generation after generation in my home town continue the "tradition".... but there's NOTHING stopping you from stepping out and changing that. All it takes is a driven desire...and the attitude that you can do it.

 

The tax "system" works both ways and you can legal play it against them with some foresight and some balls.

[cram]

Printing money, with no gold backing it, has gone on for way too long.

 

Now crams statement I have issue with. Yes Welfare is a "hereditary disease".... and I've seen generation after generation in my home town continue the "tradition".... but there's NOTHING stopping you from stepping out and changing that. All it takes is a driven desire...and the attitude that you can do it.

 

The tax "system" works both ways and you can legal play it against them with some foresight and some balls.

 

My point is that the system that's being demonized in that video is the same one that enables it to not be a hereditary disease. Without debt an entrepreneur who opens a shoe-store can't carry inventory without paying for all of it up front. Without debt a startup tech company that invents a new type of hybrid car can't find customers to buy it.

 

Without debt, its nearly impossible for someone who doesn't already have lots of $$ to grow any.

 

In other words, we're on the same team.

[cram]

Printing money, with no gold backing it, has gone on for way too long.

 

Now crams statement I have issue with. Yes Welfare is a "hereditary disease".... and I've seen generation after generation in my home town continue the "tradition".... but there's NOTHING stopping you from stepping out and changing that. All it takes is a driven desire...and the attitude that you can do it.

 

The tax "system" works both ways and you can legal play it against them with some foresight and some balls.

 

My point is that the system that's being demonized in that video is the same one that enables it to not be a hereditary disease. Without debt an entrepreneur who opens a shoe-store can't carry inventory without paying for all of it up front. Without debt a startup tech company that invents a new type of hybrid car can't find customers to buy it.

 

Without debt, its nearly impossible for someone who doesn't already have lots of $$ to grow any.

 

In other words, we're on the same team.

[irishfield]

Yes... "they've" always said "you have to have money.. to make money." And if you're talking investments that is pretty much fact.

 

While it may very well be the case in a variety of business proposals as well... I didn't believe it back in 1984/85 and still don't. We started our business with nothing but an idea and the tenacity to think we were young and could always get a job if we fell on our faces. We have never borrowed a dime from a bank, never ran a line of credit, never owed anyone anything. Leased machinery with no money down (100% expense on your P&L vs depreciating if you buy)... raw materials paid in 30 or 60 days..etc. Still doing it 23 years later.

Edited November 13, 2008 by irishfield

[cram]

Yes... "they've" always said "you have to have money.. to make money." And if you're talking investments that is pretty much fact.

 

While it may very well be the case in a variety of business proposals as well... I didn't believe it back in 1984/85 and still don't. We started our business with nothing but an idea and the tenacity to think we were young and could always get a job if we fell on our faces. We have never borrowed a dime from a bank, never ran a line of credit, never owed anyone anything. Leased machinery with no money down (100% expense on your P&L vs depreciating if you buy)... raw materials paid in 30 or 60 days..etc. Still doing it 23 years later.

 

Leasing machinery is debt. Its a perfect example of what i mean. Machinery companies can't sell to young not-yet-rich companies if there is no debt.

 

The raw materials being paid for in 30 or 60 days is - somewhere along the chain - paid for by debt. Someone is carrying inventory somewhere whose cash-flow is being carried by debt. I'm not saying we should all gobble up debt aggressively....i;m saying the overall system of lending (for a profit) is not evil. It enables the economy to function.

[irishfield]

It's not debt to me and all I care about.. If some company in Austria wants to lease me equipment (that at the time was a $1 buy off at the end btw!) I could care less if they are in debt to whom ever supplied them with the raw materials to build said machine.

 

As for "overall system of lending (for profit) is not evil". In one aspect sure it makes the world go round when on a fair playing field.... but when they lend it out at 8 to 15% and only pay you 0.3% to 2% on a savings account (and generally zero on a business account... without some hoop jumping and money moving)...reaping billions in quarterly profits... it sure is evil.

Edited November 13, 2008 by irishfield

[John Bacon]

It's not debt to me and all I care about.. If some company in Austria wants to lease me equipment (that at the time was a $1 buy off at the end btw!) I could care less if they are in debt to whom ever supplied them with the raw materials to build said machine.

 

As for "overall system of lending (for profit) is not evil". In one aspect sure it makes the world go round when on a fair playing field.... but when they lend it out at 8 to 15% and only pay you 0.3% to 2% on a savings account (and generally zero on a business account... without some hoop jumping and money moving)...reaping billions in quarterly profits... it sure is evil.

 

Actually a lease is a form of debt. If you don't believe me, try signing a three lease with a $1 buy out and then tell them you don't want it anymore after the first month. Do you think they would simply let you return it and stop making payments? You would be obligated to make the payments for the term of the lease or pay a stiff penalty. As a matter of fact, the proper way to account for such a lease is to record the equipment as an assets and depreciate it, and set all of the payments required for the term of the lease as a liability on the balance sheet. You would still be able to deduct the payments for tax puposes because CCRA does not follow generally accepted accounting principles.

 

Taking 30 to 60 days to pay for raw materials is also a form of debt. It is short term debt, but it is still debt.

[Rich]

Shh, I wanna see more of Holdfast vs the Hippie

[workwear]

go hippie go

 

 

hey is roy on vacation????.........wondering why this thread isnt locked as of yet

 

 

 

NOT THAT IT SHOULD BE!!!!

 

 

 

cheers

[holdfast]

But I like the Hippie. At least he tells it the way he feels about it. Hes allowed to say what he wants. I just like the fact that hes so negative and I still want to hear in his own words what his solution is. All I keep getting is listen or read this video. As far as Roy locking this, maybe nobody hasn't pmd him yet because nobody's feelings have been hurt. By the way, I like these threads. Other Peoples fishing reports get boring after a while. Who knows I might learn something. Never knew what P3TA was till this forum for instance.

[forrest]

This thread is out of control.

 

When Lundyboy went off the reservation Cram suddenly released this was not a thread about economics (too funny).

 

Cram had kept repeating 'did you even watch the video' and as it turned out he himself did not watch the Lundboy's video. ROTFL It was like the 2 stooges. (Does that make Cram hypocritical too? Yep).

 

Another person was throwing around profanities and abuse.

 

And the icing on the cake is that the 2 that have been pushing this thread are as pesky and unmoving as Jehova Witness (you can pick your own group).

 

entertaining for a bit but its now old.

 

forrest

Edited November 13, 2008 by forrest

[Guest lundboy]

Yep that's me, an off the rails "hippie" trying wake up the odd redneck, accademic and jarhead.

 

(funny I wasn't old enough to roll around in the mud at Woodstock or to wear tie-dye)

[fishermccann]

you guys are wacked!!!!!!!!!!

[Roy]

To be continued mid March during those cabin fever weeks. Or maybe not.