Water access rights ?

[splashhopper]

I am mainly a river fisherman to this point and have come across a situation where we were denied access to certain stretches of the Maitland river in Goderich. Specifically along the steel wall.

This wall is about 15 feet above water level and abutts to a seasonal trailer park.

 

The owner of the park next to it says we cannot fish on the wall as it is Private property.

 

i was under the impression that if the River is a thoroughfare to Lake Huron the public MUST be given access to it.

We are given access up river of the wall, but this owner says that stops at the steel wall.

 

The "local" MNR rep does not seem to be able to give us a CLEAR CUT DEFINITION of this rule about this particular area.

 

I have tried looking at the MNR site but they seem t ospeak some other language on it and i get off that site looking like this >>

 

Any help is appreciated, and it doesn;t have to be specifically about this particular spot.

 

 

Thanx

splashhopper

[Mike Pike]

Is the wall part of the trailer park property? If not, I would think he'd have no right kicking you off because it's not HIS private property.

[DANIMAL]

As far as I know, if it is a navigatable river you are allowed to be in a boat(someone cant own the water). But they can own the land on shore.

[splashhopper]

the park manager says it is his.... but the locals all say it isn't and the MNR guy just doesn't seem to be able to give us a clear message, one way or the other, so we can print it out and stuff it in the guys face.

[Mike Pike]

Hmmmm, just a suggestion but I'm wondering if you could hunt around and find out exactly who DOES own the property. Maybe from the town office or a real estate office or somewhere? Once you know, contact that person and ask if it was ok to fish off their wall. You'd accomplish the same thing.

 

Just a suggestion and worth the effort if you guys like to fish there a lot.

[splashhopper]

good idea mike... i wil ltry that as i know a real estate agent up there..

[natemr2]

Don't post here much being, there is not usually much on my area, When the trailer park was built there was an agreement that there would be a 10 ft allowance along the steel wall, and there has never been a problem with access in the past, The fellow that is active superintenant of the park now has seemed to take an intrest in keeping people out of the no fishing zone, if you are fishing in the designated area there is usually not a problem, were you fishing past the sign that says "no fishing beyond this point", if so you don't have a leg to stand on, and also keep in mind to get to the steel wall you are walking through private property, and also keep in mind they have had major problems with erosion in this area, both in the marina and at the end of the steel wall and fishermen up and down the banks don't help this, so to sum it if you are not fishing past the sign you shouldn't have a problem, but step beyond it and this guy is like a vulture on road kill and has every right to kick you out, I fished there all winter without a problem staying in the designated area, or take a bit of a walk and fish the other side if you don't want any controversy.

[NAC]

Don't post here much being, there is not usually much on my area, When the trailer park was built there was an agreement that there would be a 10 ft allowance along the steel wall, and there has never been a problem with access in the past, The fellow that is active superintenant of the park now has seemed to take an intrest in keeping people out of the no fishing zone, if you are fishing in the designated area there is usually not a problem, were you fishing past the sign that says "no fishing beyond this point", if so you don't have a leg to stand on, and also keep in mind to get to the steel wall you are walking through private property, and also keep in mind they have had major problems with erosion in this area, both in the marina and at the end of the steel wall and fishermen up and down the banks don't help this, so to sum it if you are not fishing past the sign you shouldn't have a problem, but step beyond it and this guy is like a vulture on road kill and has every right to kick you out, I fished there all winter without a problem staying in the designated area, or take a bit of a walk and fish the other side if you don't want any controversy.

 

 

My understanding is the same as Nate. There is a lot more traffic in the park from fisherman and this fellow is trying to curb it.

You can still get there without crossing his property. Watch what the locals do(follow docks). or just ask

[splashhopper]

right now,, i follow the docks.. but as soon as they put the piers in, we lose access there I am told.

 

then we have to go up just below the trussell and walk down from there... NP..

 

As soon as it's open season. i am heading up river. lol

 

BTW...Nomad... I was fishing with a couple of guys this weekend and there might eb a couple of us take u up on a spring float for rainbows.

Pls contact me with details so i can pass it on.

 

splashhopper

[natemr2]

My understanding is the same as Nate. There is a lot more traffic in the park from fisherman and this fellow is trying to curb it.

You can still get there without crossing his property. Watch what the locals do(follow docks). or just ask

i am a local, and yes you can get there but not this time of year, that shore ice along the banks is not worth the risk for any fish, it will get sorted out in time.

[Muskieman]

I believe that 4 meters of shoreline " NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE " is crown land...

 

here's a little story..

 

My buddy Denis L ... has a property in a upscale parts of town along the upper Sturgeon River..

canoeists decided to make his backyard a campground for the weekend..{ he has the greenest grass}... He tried kicking him off "his property" one of the canoeists pulled out a piece of paper that stated that a certain amount of shoreline was crown land .... Denis called the cops ... they didn't know what to do so they called the town Super Intendant ... he agreed with the canoeists

they stayed for the weekend....

 

On the Monday Denis called the ... MNR and they referred him to the federal side of things..

 

Fisheries and Oceans agreed with the canoeists..

 

Look into it .. apparently according to Fisheries and Oceans there is no private property on a shoreline.....private structure maybe??

 

Denis has since put a nice white picket fence along his shoreline.

[JohnF]

I believe that 4 meters of shoreline " NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE " is crown land...

 

here's a little story..

 

My buddy Denis L ... has a property in a upscale parts of town along the upper Sturgeon River..

canoeists decided to make his backyard a campground for the weekend..{ he has the greenest grass}... He tried kicking him off "his property" one of the canoeists pulled out a piece of paper that stated that a certain amount of shoreline was crown land .... Denis called the cops ... they didn't know what to do so they called the town Super Intendant ... he agreed with the canoeists

they stayed for the weekend....

 

On the Monday Denis called the ... MNR and they referred him to the federal side of things..

 

Fisheries and Oceans agreed with the canoeists..

 

Look into it .. apparently according to Fisheries and Oceans there is no private property on a shoreline.....private structure maybe??

 

Denis has since put a nice white picket fence along his shoreline.

 

Dunno about the 4 meters but there are some old laws about towpaths along navigable waterways (for the horse & oxen to haul barges) and there are also laws about riverbed claims and definition. It's mentioned in at least a few different pieces of legislation and would probably take a lawyer specializing in riparian rights and waterways to break it down for anyone. I doubt that the MNR is ever really sure which Acts apply in cases like this, or if anyone really knows for sure. That's why it's fairly easy to restrict access, no one knows if you're acting within the law or not.

 

We have a situation here in Stratford where the owners of some of the most expensive homes in town have tried to block walking access along the riverbank, with no success. Tourists and locals can stroll through these backyards, apparently at will, the only restriction being that they should try to stick fairly close to the shoreline. There's a very clearly worn path that isn't hard to follow. The city fathers looked at this a few years ago when someone got up in arms about it and the resolution seems to be that the landowners can't stop this foot traffic. Not sure if the same would apply in the Goderich case.

 

JF

[Roy]

Lots of examples of private waters. Think of Scugog South of the causway for example. There's lots of waterways in Canada to fish on and explore. I don't feel like bothering folks who don't want me there.

[JFR]

This is a topic that surfaces every spring on migratory trout streams. The below link was written several years back for Grant Ferris' Grey/Bruce Outdoors webpage.

 

This will answer many of your questions.

 

john

 

 

 

http://www.greybruceoutdoors.com/guestwrit...blewaters.shtml

[Tootsie II]

I am survey technician by college schooling and when I was at college years ago we were taught that every lake and navigable waterway has an automatic 66 ft. reserve along its shore from the high water mark. In later years a lot of the responsibility and title for these right-of-ways were ceeded to the provinces who subsquently ceeded them to the municipalities. In some cases the municipalities closed up these allowances and sold them to adjoining property owners. Since then and in particlarly along the Great Lakes shores and any rivers feeding into them, many of the nearby First Nations have claimed that the aforementioned actions were illegal and these allowances are now part of the many land claim settlements that they are asking for. God only knows when that might get settled.

[bramptonjerry]

I read somewhere recently that when it comes to rivers and streams that it is public land up to the high water mark, I don't how you really determine that but a constructed wall would seem to me to be private right up to the wall

[shane]

I read somewhere recently that when it comes to rivers and streams that it is public land up to the high water mark, I don't how you really determine that but a constructed wall would seem to me to be private right up to the wall

 

According to the article that Mr. JR linked to, the 'highwater mark' is a myth.

 

Even though there does seem to be some basic laws covering this stuff, it also seems like there are always exceptions.

[Marko]

I know exacly of the wall that you are talking about.

I used to get in shouting matches with that old guy, he even came up in my face and wanted to kick me off that wall, while there were 10 other people fishing there which he had no problem with.

Stayed there and fished and told him to call the cops if he had problem with me fishing there, he never did so I dont really know.

There is a little trail that goes right beside the wall and i didnt think it was a property of that park there.

I see people fishing there all the time.