Albert Gore Junior wins Nobel Peace Prize

[douG]

lundboy can reason and write, both passionately. Liking that.

[bigfish1965]

Hydrogen is the answer. Lots of it and it is free. Home based windmills are already a reality but the production is too low to compete with what we have.

if we delvvelop more non intrusive electricity like done in Niagara Falls and couple it with hydrogen fuel cells, we can konck oil demand in half..which of course would just raise the damm price. But at least the wind is free.

[danc]

The oceans, not wind will supply us with our future energy needs.

[Roy]

Gas for free would be good. Ok everyone...GROUP FART!

[John Bacon]

Hydrogen is the answer. Lots of it and it is free. Home based windmills are already a reality but the production is too low to compete with what we have.

if we delvvelop more non intrusive electricity like done in Niagara Falls and couple it with hydrogen fuel cells, we can konck oil demand in half..which of course would just raise the damm price. But at least the wind is free.

 

The production of Hydrogen without creating carbon emissions requires large amounts of electricity. Wind and solar power have their place; but I doubt that they can meet our current needs and have enough left over to generate our hydrogen requirements. Nuclear power could be the answer, but nobody seems to want to have any nuclear plants built.

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Ok, here goes...

 

I think the real question here is, what makes everyone so sure that the MainStream Media (MSM) is telling you the truth? Or even telling you the whole story?

 

Do you all really believe that if you find an article with a particular slant to your preferred position on this subject (say from the Washington Post or The New York Times, or even the National Post--Or whatever is your favourite) that they are telling you the truth?

 

Have you not heard that same MSM tell all kinds of stories regarding what was and wasn't happening in Iraq to get support to invade?

 

 

Or that The Whitehouse has paid tons of money to make sure that their agendas are being pushed by the MSM?

 

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/geor...ere-were-a.html

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/081507K.shtml

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washingt...ised_tv_report/

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americ...ticle621189.ece

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/77_TV_st..._news_0405.html

 

I know that the "alternative media" is frowned upon, but if you find the right ones you will encounter REAL investigative journalism not just the corporate/military industrial complex/globalism agenda. I make it a point to look at all sides, all opinions on matters like this (as much as I can find). From what I've read here so far (with a few exceptions) I see a lot of people spewing the MSM headlines.

 

Don't get me wrong sometimes the MSM pumps out the truth in plain sight, and no one pays attention (I have included some examples above).

 

This subject is part of a much larger agenda (take a look at UN Agenda 21, or PNAC, or UNESCO for a start). This agenda has been in play for many decades, if not centuries.

 

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/may2007/0...epopulation.htm

 

Please I implore all of you to investigate subjects like this further. Everyone needs to know more and understand what the real agendas and implications may be. Look at Everything with an open mind.... forget the left right paradigm it does not exist.

 

I know most of you won't read the links presented here, or even the official think-tank and government documents, like Agenda 21, or Kissinger's depopulation document. Pitty... Because the agenda is in plain sight and no one can be bothered to research it.

 

That's OK. The Leafs are playing, NFL season has begun and Twitney Spears has your attention.

 

Lund boy some good reading material, you are not telling me anything I don't already know. Some of these so called 'enviornmentalists' are really on the Corporations payrolls and use a good deed as a cover to reach their objectives, like they did in Iraq. They are not there to free anyone. They are there for oil.

 

And the medias are easily bought or pressured. Some seem to be more free then others. Even the best liars have to mix a little truth in there to have any type of credibility.FOX being the biggest of the mis-information medias. The Pentagon wanted to open up their own media(I guess fox wasn't enough) believe it or not because they didn't like the way the war was being reported...They want to control every thought of the minds of the people.

 

Still, I have done my research and if we don't stem polution, there will be alot of negative side effects. I dont need the MSM or anyone to tell me this. To me it is obvious.

 

Do you know why you can see the stars in the sky better up north than down in the city?Polution....

[Guest Johnny Bass]

The production of Hydrogen without creating carbon emissions requires large amounts of electricity. Wind and solar power have their place; but I doubt that they can meet our current needs and have enough left over to generate our hydrogen requirements. Nuclear power could be the answer, but nobody seems to want to have any nuclear plants built.

 

That is because nuclear power plants of old were unsafe and leaked toxic fumes......With the new technology they have today, they are much more safer, efficient and enviornmentaly friendly.

[danc]

Maybe this program will shed some light on the planets future.

 

Planet in Peril

[bosc]

This peace prize Gore received is that the same thing as what Nelson Mandela and Arafat got???

[scuro]

That is because nuclear power plants of old were unsafe and leaked toxic fumes......With the new technology they have today, they are much more safer, efficient and enviornmentaly friendly.

 

Nuclear power simply is uneconomical dollar for dollar. The immediate association I make when I hear the word "nuclear" is "cost overrun". Pickering has been a financial disaster and when those plants are all finally decommissioned I'm sure there will be further cost overruns. As far as toxic leaking goes the only real leaking into the atmosphere that I know of is Chernobyl. In risk analysis one looks at rewards vrs. risk. Sometimes a small put very dangerous risk can outweigh a powerful reward. The dangerous risks associated with Nuclear power is terrorism and to a lesser degree accidents. What is more disturbing is the fact that in case of an accident, and you and your property gets covered in fallout, our government has made it law that you can not sue them. One atom of Plutonium in your body WILL kill you. Finally the last risk of nuclear power is that the spent fuel can be used to make weapons grade nuclear bombs. You have to be careful where and how you store this stuff. To date we have not found a permanent storage facility for all of our waste. Deep bunkers under the Canadian shield have been suggested where it would have to sit for tens of thousands of years to become harmless. Those costs have yet to be factored into the final cost of nuclear power.

 

I'd vote for natural gas power plants or coal power plants that have much better filtration systems added to small micro projects such as wind. We have a lot of water control systems in Ontario that doesn't produce electricity. Both NG/coal would still be cheaper then nuclear power and have better risk reward profiles.

[Guest lundboy]

Lund boy some good reading material, you are not telling me anything I don't already know. Some of these so called 'enviornmentalists' are really on the Corporations payrolls and use a good deed as a cover to reach their objectives, like they did in Iraq. They are not there to free anyone. They are there for oil.

 

And the medias are easily bought or pressured. Some seem to be more free then others. Even the best liars have to mix a little truth in there to have any type of credibility.FOX being the biggest of the mis-information medias. The Pentagon wanted to open up their own media(I guess fox wasn't enough) believe it or not because they didn't like the way the war was being reported...They want to control every thought of the minds of the people.

 

Still, I have done my research and if we don't stem polution, there will be alot of negative side effects. I dont need the MSM or anyone to tell me this. To me it is obvious.

 

Do you know why you can see the stars in the sky better up north than down in the city?Polution....

 

You are being distracted, sidelined by one subject of many. It's like the magician's slight of hand. Keep you focused on the left hand so you don't see what the right hand is doing.

 

I am telling you something you don't already know. I can tell by your response. I won't come right out and say what it is because it is far too controversial and hideous to just throw around. You have to study history, the REAL history not just the stuff they teach you in school and on the Discovery Channel/History Channel. It is something you have to learn for yourself because it is so unbelievable, if you are told about you will just brush it off.

 

If you take the time to read (and understand what they mean) Agenda 21, and the Kissenger document and investigate further you will find that the Global Warming/Eco Agenda is part of something much larger than saving the planet, or oil. This goes back centuries.

 

It is up to all of us to realise that we have been had. And it's not about saving the planet. Until you understand what Bilderberg, Council on Foreign Relations, the World Bank, the Central Banks, Jekyl Island, the coming NAU etc. are about, you will continue to think what you are "supposed" to think.

 

It has taken me more than six years to understand (and to get over the shock) what this is really all about, I don't expect anyone to get it within a couple of days. The key to understanding all of this is that you must start to realise that ALL things are possible, and that there are people walking this earth that think far differently than you and I and are ruthless.

 

Here is a clue, draw from it what you wish and believe what you want. The documented proof and real history is available all over the net for anyone that has eyes to see and can read, here is one source.

 

http://www.endgamethemovie.com

 

BTW Yes I know why you can't see the stars in the city, It's called light polution.

Edited October 21, 2007 by lundboy

[scuro]

So global warming is make-believe and really just one of the many ways used to control the world through mass fear. That's sounding radical libertarian...conspiracy stuff. Let me guess Freemasons are involved. How did they get the ice cap to melt?

 

 

(1979-2005)

(Summer of 2007)

[Guest lundboy]

So global warming is make-believe and really just one of the many ways used to control the world through mass fear. That's sounding radical libertarian...conspiracy stuff. Let me guess Freemasons are involved. How did they get the ice cap to melt?

(1979-2005)

(Summer of 2007)

 

I have made no references to Freemasons, nor have I even said that global warming doesn't exist. Merely the fact that it has been hijacked by higher powers that are using it to control us with taxes and guilt. What makes you so sure that it's not a natural cycle on this planet (which it is by the way). What makes you so sure that man-made CO2 is the worst thing that could happen to the planet, when it's part of the life cycle... plants crave it and convert it oxygen. When the polar ice caps retreated many centuries ago plants flourished (plants such as food crops will as well) because of an increase in C02. It's your friend, don't let someone convince you otherwise.

 

Your's is a typical response of someone that wishes to not have their comfort zone infringed upon. The people taking advantage of situations like this over the centuries, depend on you to react like this. It's easy to throw out accusations and make references to the imaginable left/right paradigm, without even taking one hour out of one's life to research the world around them. I'm surprised you didn't throw the old "tin-foil hat" phrase out.

 

Like I said, believe what you want.

 

The official documentation is out there in your face. Get hold of Rockefeller's Memoirs, here is a link:

http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/Memoir...ockefeller%2527

 

He spells it out pretty plainly in his book, what his life long goals have been, what his family goals have been and what damage they have done.

 

UN Agenda 21 is being implemented right now around the world. Has been for a decade or more. http://www.un.org/esa/sustdev/documents/ag...agenda21toc.htm

 

Check out the Georgia Guidestones. Our new Ten Commandments are carved in stone there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

 

PNAC members Cheney and Friends, wrote a document called "Rebuilding America's Defenses" one year before September 11, 2001. It was the plan to lead America and it's allies into war with Iraq and others. http://www.newamericancentury.org/Rebuildi...casDefenses.pdf

 

Research the career of Edward Bernays and the lasting effects he has had on all of us.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries..._the_self.shtml

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2637635365191428174

 

There is far more, MUCH MORE. You can choose to dismiss all the evidence, or you can open your eyes.

 

Don't say "What happened?" when it's too late.

 

(I know you won't look at or understand the real evidence in the links I have provided, this is the last post I will make on this subject, I've given everyone more than enough to start researching).

Edited October 22, 2007 by lundboy

[irishfield]

Lundboy...you're not just another pretty boat! LOL

 

Good stuff and good to see someone with their head on straight.

[Guest lundboy]

Nuclear power simply is uneconomical dollar for dollar. The immediate association I make when I hear the word "nuclear" is "cost overrun". Pickering has been a financial disaster and when those plants are all finally decommissioned I'm sure there will be further cost overruns. As far as toxic leaking goes the only real leaking into the atmosphere that I know of is Chernobyl. In risk analysis one looks at rewards vrs. risk. Sometimes a small put very dangerous risk can outweigh a powerful reward. The dangerous risks associated with Nuclear power is terrorism and to a lesser degree accidents. What is more disturbing is the fact that in case of an accident, and you and your property gets covered in fallout, our government has made it law that you can not sue them. One atom of Plutonium in your body WILL kill you. Finally the last risk of nuclear power is that the spent fuel can be used to make weapons grade nuclear bombs. You have to be careful where and how you store this stuff. To date we have not found a permanent storage facility for all of our waste. Deep bunkers under the Canadian shield have been suggested where it would have to sit for tens of thousands of years to become harmless. Those costs have yet to be factored into the final cost of nuclear power.

 

I'd vote for natural gas power plants or coal power plants that have much better filtration systems added to small micro projects such as wind. We have a lot of water control systems in Ontario that doesn't produce electricity. Both NG/coal would still be cheaper then nuclear power and have better risk reward profiles.

 

 

Nuclear reactors use Uranium Dioxide UO2 pellets (including the Candu-Deuturium reactors, known as heavy water). There is no Plutonium produced at these plants. Only breeder reactors produce plutonium and they are few and far between.

 

The waste (Uranium 238 and 234) from these plants is considerable and dangerous. Fortunately the west has found a novel way to dispose of it... in depleted uranium munitions being used to poison our troops and to poison the locals in the war theater for the next 4.46 billion years.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium

http://www.worldproutassembly.org/archives..._the_wrong.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...;articleId=1777

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/042007B.shtml

 

Based on critical mass, it would take 5Kg of weaponized U235 to make an atomic weapon. 16Kg of Plutonium 239 to make a weapon. Highly unlikely this would leak from anywhere but a military storage facility. The waste can be made into weapons, but not "weapons grade nuclear bombs", or there would be no waste!

 

Nevertheless you are correct, I don't feel nuclear is the way to go in the long run. We should be heavily researching better energy sources.

Edited October 22, 2007 by lundboy

[scuro]

I have made no references to Freemasons, nor have I even said that global warming doesn't exist. Merely the fact that it has been hijacked by higher powers that are using it to control us with taxes and guilt. What makes you so sure that it's not a natural cycle on this planet (which it is by the way). What makes you so sure that man-made CO2 is the worst thing that could happen to the planet, when it's part of the life cycle... plants crave it and convert it oxygen. When the polar ice caps retreated many centuries ago plants flourished (plants such as food crops will as well) because of an increase in C02. It's your friend, don't let someone convince you otherwise.

 

I'm not certain that global warming exists. Simply a body of evidence is building daily to support this theory, and as I evaluate the evidence I find it to be convincing. The ice cap is only one recent bit of evidence to look at, there are many, the speed of recent hurricane intensification would be another one. Sure it could all be natural cycles, there are times when Co2 peaks in the atmosphere, there are times when ice caps recede. What is unique is the speed of these changes. Generally most scientific communities accept the notion of global warming. Respectfully, we are on opposite sides of the coin on this one.

[scuro]

Nuclear reactors use Uranium Dioxide UO2 pellets (including the Candu-Deuturium reactors, known as heavy water). There is no Plutonium produced at these plants. Only breeder reactors produce plutonium and they are few and far between.

 

From Canteach-The most comprehensive educational and reference library on CANDU technology

http://canteach.candu.org/

canteach.candu.org/library/20040708.pdf

 

When a reactor is first fuelled, the fuel is called fresh fuel. This initial fuel load is good for about 6 months. After this we remove and replace a few fuel bundles each day, a state called equilibrium fuelling. Radical changes occur in the composition of the fuel between the fresh and equilibrium conditions. Three significant changes are the depletion of the U-235, mostly by fission, the build-up of fission products, and the build-up of Pu-239 (a fissile fuel)...

 

Pu-239 is short for Plutonium-239.

[Guest lundboy]

From Canteach-The most comprehensive educational and reference library on CANDU technology

http://canteach.candu.org/

canteach.candu.org/library/20040708.pdf

 

When a reactor is first fuelled, the fuel is called fresh fuel. This initial fuel load is good for about 6 months. After this we remove and replace a few fuel bundles each day, a state called equilibrium fuelling. Radical changes occur in the composition of the fuel between the fresh and equilibrium conditions. Three significant changes are the depletion of the U-235, mostly by fission, the build-up of fission products, and the build-up of Pu-239 (a fissile fuel)...

 

Pu-239 is short for Plutonium-239.

 

I stand corrected.

[ehg]

study history, the REAL history

Nice bunch of links Lundboy, reminds me of the lyric,

 

'What did you dream?

Its alright we told you what to dream.'

 

but..

What has Al Gore done to ensure further World peace?

[Guest Johnny Bass]

You are being distracted, sidelined by one subject of many. It's like the magician's slight of hand. Keep you focused on the left hand so you don't see what the right hand is doing.

 

I am telling you something you don't already know. I can tell by your response. I won't come right out and say what it is because it is far too controversial and hideous to just throw around. You have to study history, the REAL history not just the stuff they teach you in school and on the Discovery Channel/History Channel. It is something you have to learn for yourself because it is so unbelievable, if you are told about you will just brush it off.

 

If you take the time to read (and understand what they mean) Agenda 21, and the Kissenger document and investigate further you will find that the Global Warming/Eco Agenda is part of something much larger than saving the planet, or oil. This goes back centuries.

 

It is up to all of us to realise that we have been had. And it's not about saving the planet. Until you understand what Bilderberg, Council on Foreign Relations, the World Bank, the Central Banks, Jekyl Island, the coming NAU etc. are about, you will continue to think what you are "supposed" to think.

 

It has taken me more than six years to understand (and to get over the shock) what this is really all about, I don't expect anyone to get it within a couple of days. The key to understanding all of this is that you must start to realise that ALL things are possible, and that there are people walking this earth that think far differently than you and I and are ruthless.

 

Here is a clue, draw from it what you wish and believe what you want. The documented proof and real history is available all over the net for anyone that has eyes to see and can read, here is one source.

 

http://www.endgamethemovie.com

 

BTW Yes I know why you can't see the stars in the city, It's called light polution.

 

 

I am well aware of Media tactics(diversion tactics)to shift from one story to another. I'm also aware that the Media is run/owned by Big business.

 

Well if you can read from my responses, you will know I have done plenty of research.

 

I have already stated why the taxes will be brought about. When ever ther super rich lose money, they rake it in another way. And they never spend their own cash(thats why they have so much). The use YOURS.

 

It is up to us to realize we have been had????We have been had from day one and this world has been built upon lies, upon lies, upon lies.....

 

 

 

Although I am not familiar with jeckle Island and Bilderberg, I am quite aware that there is a small group of elites that run most of the world(and the ones you mentioned are not it). And there are many people under those groups. You can call them masons, illuminates, the mob or whatever....One ring to control them all(smaller rings).

 

The world bank is probably the largest player you mentioned and still is not the top.

 

I have also known for quite some time of what is really going on. We have been working for the rich.....

 

Yes there are people that walk this earth that have much more resources at their disposal. Like courts, cops, spy agencies,governments, military, ect...

 

I have been saying for years that our society is headed for enslavement....Though that site is too much. kill off 80% of the population?Come on, they like to be served by humans, not machines. They cant belittle, blackmail, have sex with machines. No offense but I think you have been reading one too many conspiracy stories......

 

Yes they say that wars are a form of population control. Yes there have been rumours of desease being spread in poor countries to kill the inhabitants to make room for more development and to pillage resources, but to kill off 80% of the world's population? With the resources they have, they could have done that a long time ago.

 

Light polution plays a factory but they also say air quality above major cities is also a factor. And the polution also plays a factory in Humidity. Every time their is a smog alert?Humidity is present.

 

 

and dont use the "I know something you dont know but cant tell you".lol

Edited October 22, 2007 by Johnny Bass

[Guest Johnny Bass]

I have made no references to Freemasons, nor have I even said that global warming doesn't exist. Merely the fact that it has been hijacked by higher powers that are using it to control us with taxes and guilt. What makes you so sure that it's not a natural cycle on this planet (which it is by the way). What makes you so sure that man-made CO2 is the worst thing that could happen to the planet, when it's part of the life cycle... plants crave it and convert it oxygen. When the polar ice caps retreated many centuries ago plants flourished (plants such as food crops will as well) because of an increase in C02. It's your friend, don't let someone convince you otherwise.

 

Hijacked or is it damage control? They see their is a problem and this problem is affecting their pocketbooks, through Insurances.... So when they lose money one way, they make it another way.

 

Man made Co2 is part of the cycle?Did you not read the entire thread? And the information I provide on Acid rain?

 

Here is another fact. Pollution from the combustion of fossil fuels produce sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, mercury and other pollutants. (pollution from fossil fuels is blamed for 24,000 early deaths each year in the U.S. alone. I dont think we can say the same about natural CO2s.

 

Plants crave man made CO2? I can see why so many plants are nurtured by acid rain.

 

CO2 may be a friend but man made polution is not.

 

Yes and water polution wont kill our fish, because it is natural and the fish in Lake Ontario are ok to eat. NOT!

 

 

Your's is a typical response of someone that wishes to not have their comfort zone infringed upon. The people taking advantage of situations like this over the centuries, depend on you to react like this. It's easy to throw out accusations and make references to the imaginable left/right paradigm, without even taking one hour out of one's life to research the world around them. I'm surprised you didn't throw the old "tin-foil hat" phrase out.

 

I actually have taken the time to research and dont agree with you in regards to the effects of polution.

 

Like I said, believe what you want.

 

The official documentation is out there in your face. Get hold of Rockefeller's Memoirs, here is a link:

http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/Memoir...ockefeller%2527

 

He spells it out pretty plainly in his book, what his life long goals have been, what his family goals have been and what damage they have done.

 

UN Agenda 21 is being implemented right now around the world. Has been for a decade or more. http://www.un.org/esa/sustdev/documents/ag...agenda21toc.htm

 

Check out the Georgia Guidestones. Our new Ten Commandments are carved in stone there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

 

Interesting reads. Though I am pretty sure there is and has been more than 500,000,000 people on this planet for quite some time. So I guess they are failing?

 

PNAC members Cheney and Friends, wrote a document called "Rebuilding America's Defenses" one year before September 11, 2001. It was the plan to lead America and it's allies into war with Iraq and others. http://www.newamericancentury.org/Rebuildi...casDefenses.pdf

 

Now you are getting warmer(PNAC)......

 

And have you found out what these elite groups all have in common yet?

 

Research the career of Edward Bernays and the lasting effects he has had on all of us.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries..._the_self.shtml

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2637635365191428174

 

There is far more, MUCH MORE. You can choose to dismiss all the evidence, or you can open your eyes.

 

yes mass manipulation is real and is working well in America today....Goebbels was another great example of this in Nazi Germany.....

 

they say if you repeat a lie enough times? People will believe it to be truth. This is a fact......

 

Don't say "What happened?" when it's too late.

 

(I know you won't look at or understand the real evidence in the links I have provided, this is the last post I will make on this subject, I've given everyone more than enough to start researching).

 

There is no doubt I can prove that humans are causing the Global warming phenomona. But I know that if I post scientific data you will probably claim it is lies and a conspiracy.

Edited October 22, 2007 by Johnny Bass

[Guest Johnny Bass]

They dont want us to know the truth because simply its bad for business, and if the world goes down hill, they believe they will outlive it. So they are living it up now.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/27/...D8KCS6AO0.shtml

 

And I also supplied an article that stated Exxon Mobile was paying people to discredit the claim that global warming is due to human polution.

 

So the rich want us to think that this global warming is natural so then can continue to profit from polutting the planet.

 

I can post hundreds of scientific documents(ask and I will) Stating that Global warming is real and HUMANS are casuing it and has many dangerous side effects....

[Terry]

you are a good debater

but because someone writes his Memoirs, does not make it fact...

and there are lots of facts to support both sides

you seem to believe your facts are written in stone

while everyone else is full of crap

 

in the real world it's not that black and white

and one would need a pretty big shovel to dig up the truth ...

[Deano]

That and the fact that global warming and global cooling have been going on since earth existed, makes it ridiculous to think we're causing it. Time will tell.

[Guest Johnny Bass]

you are a good debater

but because someone writes his Memoirs, does not make it fact...

and there are lots of facts to support both sides

you seem to believe your facts are written in stone

while everyone else is full of crap

 

in the real world it's not that black and white

and one would need a pretty big shovel to dig up the truth ...

 

I guess this is directed at me.....

 

My so called memoirs are supported by scientific data.

 

Yes there are lots of so called facts, supporting both sides.

 

Well, I am debating my position and my facts are backed by logic. If you believe that my facts are not? Show me your logic? Show me your proof? Chances are I will be able to discredit it. And chances are you will not be able to discredit mine, which they have still yet to be answered.(In regards to the acid rain post and CO2 emissions).

 

I know the real world is not black and white. And I possess a very big shovel.....