Conservation Officers

[Corey]

I think the term probable cause is what we are talking about. If someone informs a CO that you are in violation of fish and wildlife act, and they can corrorborate it by means of a sworn affidavit or additional witness's, a CO has the right to enter and search a private dwelling, vehicle or any other place.

 

This doesn't mean they can ransack your place, but looking in fridges, freezers, gun cabinets, etc are all fair game during a search executed by the MNR.

[caper]

However, like I said before if a cop/CO will bend the rules to search you how long will be before they manufacture evidence to get you..... NOT LONG!!!! History has always shown this to be the case.

 

 

Oh really! What history is that?

[Basstard]

wow i cant believe you guys are talking about CO's bending rules and disputing over rights to enter your cabin etc........id be more than happy to let them come in and search where ever they want........with limited budgets and cut backs they are facing they do everything they can to keep the fish in the lake so websites like this can even exist.........unbelievable............you ppl whining about CO's breaking rules and entering your cabins are probably the same ppl that whine when they get a speeding ticket..........................probably not your fault either is it...............

[joonmoon]

Come on now if you take away the power of a CO then you get more poachers and cheaters, same goes for the police. They are there to protect us and the fish/game. If we attack them with attitude then you are gonna get whats comin to ya. If they have a reason to search then they will and all the power to them and when they find you're clean then fine and dandy off they go. Treat them like dirt and you will get treated the same. I wish everyone would see the world from their point of view cause who's the first to complain that there are white bucket brigades out on the river or lake and complaining that they have more than one rod in the water....if you see it report it doesn't matter if the law comes right away or not. If you wait and see whether they get busted or not for your own enjoyment then you are reporting them for the wrong reason. Follow the regs and the laws and you're fine...I've said my peace and hope I haven't offended anyone in doing so, it was not my intention but rather only to voice my opinion.

Edited August 24, 2007 by joonmoon

[2kj]

Like I said in the quarter inch thread, Donnie is a DICK and just like cops every once in a while you will come across them. Nothing to worry about if there is nothing to find.

[kgeary]

I heartily applaud Walleyed for his fortitude.

I thanked him as I feel other people should thank him for spending his money and time fighting something he believed was wrong and letting us all know whats what.

He's taken a huge step in stopping this trash.

For the past 25 years we have been led to believe that Donny had the authority to search cabins.

Simply the fact that he has done it thousands of times has lead people to believe he had the right.

 

When walleyed said he was going to fight it, thought he had no chance.

He kept me informed.

When I saw the info they dug up I was disgusted.

It is apparent that for at least the past dozen years, Donny, the crown attorney and the courts have been aware that the searches were illegal but unless the defendant fought for his/ her rights they went ahead and convicted.

 

There is no excuse for the "good guys" to break the law to catch the "bad guys" .

Which illegal action is worse????

How far should they go??

How many illegal searches resulted in fines for fish improperly packaged, improperly marked etc. etc.

Which we all know are very serious offences and the "good guys" should be allowed any and all means to catch these dangerous felons. (read sarcasm)

 

How many millions of dollars have been lost to Ontarios economy due to these illegal searches.

 

I could go on and on.

The short version is as I said - I was disgusted.

 

By the way -

Terry you were and right and I'm glad you were.

I'm just not sure why you still insist on trying to burn me on this.

Just to set it straight -I didn't let Donny in the cabin. Period.

 

Once again - Thank you Walleyed.

[walleyed]

Thanks Kevin I appreciate it. If people remember the first post a year ago, I stated that the camp owner was not present when Mr.Maw rolled into the camp.There was no "reasonable suspicion" or the possibility of evidence being destroyed because none of us were at the camp including the owner.This was an arbitrary seach done without anyones knowledge or permission.

Thats what ticked me off.

[walleyed]

By the way Kevin,I just wanted to thank you for the wonderful trip we had recently(Donny free I might add).

As we expected,everything was perfect,you and your staff made our trip the adventure we expected.

Lookin forward to next year.

[JerseyDog]

There is a very good reason why their are Consitutional laws in most civilized countries that protect against search & seizure. You can see the evidence of why these laws are important in less than civilized places where the authorities, or goon squads or whoever happily kick down someone's door and do whatever they want whenever they want.

 

Regardless of why I wouldn't want the "man" from entering my home at a whim, I would never, ever allow my home or private residence to be searched without a warrant and would fight any illegal search in court.

 

Its not that I have anything to hide, I really don't, but as with any institutional authority, if you give them an inch they may very well take a mile and the evidence of that is littered all over the newspages and history books.

[bigfish1965]

There's a difference between letting a CO in to have a look around your freezer and the police or CO's wandering into your residence whenever they feel like it. I know all of you would be quite upset if you came home twice a week to find the police rummaging through your house whether you have anything to hide or not. I am, and have always been, a strict believer in following the resource laws....but that must apply to everyone.

It is important we defend our resources, but it is more important that those who enforce the laws, obey them.

If an officer is willing to overlook one of the basic tenet's of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, what does this say to his/her credibility? What does it say when an officer is willing to give away his credibility in front of a judge like that? What possible chance does he now have of convicting a real poacher when the defense attorney will know this guy is a rogue officer?

Any good lawyer will bury this CO every time he takes the stand.

[spooner_jr]

I didn't see the original post, and couldn't find it. I know it makes no difference to the argument of illegally entering the cabin, but did the CO lay any charges as a result of the search, or did Walleyed just take him to task for the illegal entry?

[TennesseeGuy]

September 30, 2005 my friend and I were the only fishermen on a fly-in lake close to Red Lake, Ontario. The camp owner and his pilot were the only others in camp at that time.

 

It was our first day in camp and the two of us spent most of the day on the water. We returned around sundown with our legal limits of 15" - 16" walleyes. We were informed by the other two in camp that Donny Maw had entered the camp and went into our cabin without permission from anyone. We had no alcohol in our boat. We each fished with only one rod. We broke no laws and there was no probable cause to justify his entering our cabin. The same CO has entered my cabin without permission on previous trips. I've never been accused by any CO of breaking a law.

 

This is only one of many stories.

[JFR]

Breaking the law and playing with the loopholes is the Canadian way,Speed limits--Gst etc.

 

I totally disagree with this statement Pollywogg.

 

Wether you commit an offence, you still have fundamental rights that have been upheld by the Supreme Court, these are the most important rights you have.

Legal Rights

Life, liberty and security of person

 

7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.

Search or seizure

 

8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure

 

Detention or imprisonment

 

9. Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned.

 

Arrest or detention

 

10. Everyone has the right on arrest or detention

a) to be informed promptly of the reasons therefor;

to retain and instruct counsel without delay and to be informed of that right; and

c) to have the validity of the detention determined by way of habeas corpus and to be released if the detention is not lawful.

 

The CO in this matter has NO LEGAL AUTHORITY to enter a dwelling on a "fishing expedition" The reason he does it and he knows full well that the people he targets are from away or out of towners and do not have the time or resources to return to Northwestern Ontario to fight the summons. We all loose.

 

You also have to be aware that a violation under the fisheries act is a summary conviction and must be "found committing" in other words catching you in the act.

 

Did you know that the CO can be sued for violations of your basic rights and freedoms. The Crown's office was very wise to withdraw these charges.

 

Just my .02$

 

John

[TennesseeGuy]

The probability of Donny entering my cabin without legal authority isn't going to keep me from making the next trip, or the one after that, or..................................................................

[douG]

I was hoping to run into Mr. Maw near Red Lake this past July. I was going to tell him that he's famous!

[TennesseeGuy]

Donny will be the talker.

 

douG will be the listener.

[Ben_Daniels]

This is a touchy subject because there are bad guys out there that should be caught for poaching etc.,, but I'd have to say its mostly the good people that are suffering from having there things illegally searched at rented cabins. In my "Issues in Tourism" class in college they told us that its one thing if the person renting the cabin allows the search(which they don't have to), but the Lodge or Hotel should NEVER open a guests room or cabin without seeing a warrant, regardless of reasonable suspicion. It makes the hotel liable for anything that might happen during this search and it can ruin the credibility of the Hotel.

[bobtheman]

First time replying, long time fishing. Although I totally disagree with any one whoe thinks that a CO has the right to do illeagal search and seizers, I will defend to the death your right to say anything you want. I beilive this is also one of your fundementall rights!!!

[walleyed]

Gentlemen,as I stated before,the problem was with the search and the way it was conducted.I was not given the opportunity to refuse because I wasnt there.Some people on this board go on about the MNR's limited resources.On a lake like Nungesser,where there is only one way out,and all the fisherman leave between the hours of 6:00am and 12:00pm on the same day,the MNR could set up a checkpoint and check everyone leaving.The only people wasting MNR resources is Donny Maw and the MNR.

He hits the lake in planes,atv's,boats ect.You can bet when our group was leaving we would only have the legal limit.I only go fishing once a year and what I do with x # of fish during the week is my business.(I eat alot of walleye)