Ontario Stay-at-Home Order - can we go fishing, or not?

[Dutch01]

Back on the thread topic (fishing and the stay at home order).....I have been staying off the ice so far due to a lack of clarity around ice fishing and also a few people around me starting testing positive so I kind of "hunkered down" for a few weeks.

The general consensus I see online is that ice fishing is permitted, but travel is not, although there is plenty of dissent.  This article seems to be saying you can travel to fish, you just have to travel back that day.

Just FYI, don't shoot the messenger if you have strong opinions one way or another!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/thunder-bay-opp-ice-fishing-lockdown-rules-1.5887138

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Dutch01

[passthepitonspete]

It's really important to do your own research, and understand what is permitted under the law, what is against the law and can get you a ticket, and what we are being "asked" to do.  

We are being asked to stay at home. That much is crystal clear.  There is, after all, a stay-at-home order. That being said, we are indeed allowed to go out for exercise, and ice fishing is a named and legit form of exercise.  

We are being asked not to travel, but there are absolutely no travel restrictions in Ontario that legally require you to stay in your own area. Accordingly, although we are being asked not to travel, it is not against the law to travel to go ice fishing. I went up north ice climbing last weekend, no problem.  Furthermore I observed scores of ice huts on Lake Nippissing. As linked above, the cops do not have the legal right to stop you and ask you if you are being compliant with the stay-at-home order.  As I have written above, I spoke to cops who told me they are ok with folks driving up north to go ice fishing.  

I can't see a better form of social isolation than ice fishing. Wear your mask around others, observe social distancing - I'm surprised they allow groups of 5, however.  Maybe we should be more careful than that.  Good on them for saying household members only within a single ice hut. That makes sense.  It is strange, however, that you aren't allowed to spend the night in your ice hut, when you are allowed to stay in a motel.  I stayed in a motel on Friday and Saturday night, for instance.  No problems. 

That being said, I rather doubt the following will take place: 

Setting:  an ice hut in the middle of a lake, after dark

{knock knock} 

OPP:  "How's it goin', eh?" 

Fisherman in hut: "Oh, beauty...."  

OPP:  "Like,  you're not allowed to stay in your hut overnight, eh?" 

Fisherman in hut:  "Oh, geez..... Sorry, eh?  Hey, would you, like, like a beer?" 

OPP:  "Like, I'm on duty.  Got any donuts...?"

Etc. 

Another interesting exercise is to google such things as "OPP $880 fine Ontario covid" and see what you get.  The woman who dropped her kids of at their grandparents, a few idiots having house parties, and ..... {crickets}

Edited January 26, 2021 by passthepitonspete

[Terry]

I read that from the opp that you can’t fish over night even in your own hut

this is a misinterpretation of the rules by them

First there is no curfew. There for you can fish as long as you want.  And the rule they are trying to follow is meant for rental huts. Not privately owned huts and Surely not portable huts with no toilet  bed or cooking devices 

again there is no curfew 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Terry

[Fisherman]

When you have your own hut but you can't stay overnight is beyond comprehension, well for normal people anyway. 

[DanD]

16 minutes ago, Terry said:

I read that from the opp that you can’t fish over night even in your own hut

this is a misinterpretation of the rules by them

First there is no curfew. There for you can fish as long as you want.  And they rule they are trying to follow is meant for rental huts. Not privately owned huts and Surely not portable huts with no toilet  bed or cooking devices 

again there is no curfew 

I'm on the same page as you Terry; but there's no ice on Simcoe that I can put my overnight hut out on, to test this theory? I wonder what a cop bent on busting me would do, if he stormed through the door of my hut. To find me sitting on my porta-potty, with-in reach of the cook stove that had beacon and eggs cooking on it? (It's not just for breakfast), Along with a peculating pot of coffee going; should I offer him a cup before or after wiping my ass? LOL

Dan.

Edited January 26, 2021 by DanD

[woodenboater]

8 hours ago, jonasdry said:

Procedure masks are used to stop big stuff coming out of a patient from entering the mouth/nose of the person performing the procedure. Nothing more, nothing less.

um no. they're to keep patients safe  from OR staff primarily. I've observed in operating theatres and have ALWAYS been masked and gowned. not for my safety but for the patient's safety.

Edited January 26, 2021 by woodenboater

[woodenboater]

I would think that with cottage resorts open, then it would seem permissible to cut some holes for the day, fish like a demon, then head back to the cottage for some wobbly pops.  would the legal issue, if there is one, be overnighting in the shack ?

[jonasdry]

10 hours ago, Terry said:

Well I’m no expert but I did stay at a holiday inn 

and it was -18 degrees out I had a mask on and breathing I could see may breathe leaving the mask and going a 6 inches out

I took the mask off and it was more like two feet or more my steamy breathe made it away from me   So I know it stopped a lot from spreading out and away from me

oh and their beds were comfortable 

Awesome response. I have maintained all along that social distancing and sanitization is all that is needed to reduce the spread. You just said you see your breathe, which is 99% plus aerosol coming through your mask. Sure, it doesn't go as far, but it still comes out. The more you keep away from others, the safer you are. Good job!

[jonasdry]

4 hours ago, woodenboater said:

um no. they're to keep patients safe  from OR staff primarily. I've observed in operating theatres and have ALWAYS been masked and gowned. not for my safety but for the patient's safety.

I agree with you that they keep the patient "safer" but really, they are to keep things out of the orifices of the staff performing the procedure. They also don't prevent the transmission of aerosols.

[jonasdry]

10 hours ago, AKRISONER said:

just some fun infographics regarding mask mandates

 

If you want to really get into the science of it read this scientific article https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118 

In summary, there is laboratory-based evidence that household masks have filtration capacity in the relevant particle size range, as well as efficacy in blocking aerosols and droplets from the wearer (67). That is, these masks help people keep their emissions to themselves. A consideration is that face masks with valves do not capture respiratory particles as efficiently, bypassing the filtration mechanism, and therefore offer less source control (84).

 

and another article from the University of California

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

 

All anecdotal, all academic... Chances are with no mask requirements there is also no social distancing or sanitization. Anecdotal at best.

[OhioFisherman]

Business exec and his wife charged after flying into remote Canadian town to get Covid-19 vaccine, officials say - CNN

If things like that are happening up there? you can only imagine what might be happening here, you never know where the person near you has been?

[woodenboater]

10 hours ago, jonasdry said:

I agree with you that they keep the patient "safer" but really, they are to keep things out of the orifices of the staff performing the procedure. They also don't prevent the transmission of aerosols.

 one thing that has been discussed but not sure if there's research or studies, is that masks will likely prevent the wearer from getting a huge viral load. I understand this is why some may be able to stay at home and down tylenols, and some need more intervention. there's so much information out there to consume that it can be overwhelming separating the wheat from the chaff.

stay safe everyone, fingers crossed we see the end of the tunnel this fall.

[OhioFisherman]

5 hours ago, woodenboater said:

 one thing that has been discussed but not sure if there's research or studies, is that masks will likely prevent the wearer from getting a huge viral load. I understand this is why some may be able to stay at home and down tylenols, and some need more intervention. there's so much information out there to consume that it can be overwhelming separating the wheat from the chaff.

stay safe everyone, fingers crossed we see the end of the tunnel this fall.

I am not a doctor, but everyone's immune system is slightly different? The virus has to multiply once it gets into a persons body? I doubt that you could get that huge of a viral load on it's own? A mask might also reduce the number of cases of flu or common cold?

 

[woodenboater]

1 hour ago, OhioFisherman said:

A mask might also reduce the number of cases of flu or common cold?

 

I think anecdotally, one can make the assumption that masks, combined with social distancing, and an uptick in the flu shots, have contributed to much lower cases of the flu. I hope someone is doing a study on this because it would be good data to have. Also guessing that masks might be something people will wear next flu season.