netminder Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 Sorry my spell check attacked me. Thanks for the personal attack. Let's hope I can do the same for you some day wasn't intended to be personal, but when your entire argument against me is to just say you're wrong it really makes for an excellent debate. I still don't think it's right, but if enough people got angry enough and caused enough havoc, do you think the elected officials would just brush them aside and say they're just kids throwing a temper tantrum, or do you think they would say, gee, these people are really upset over this. And like I said before, they're there to govern all people. If you just ignore the minority because they're the minority then democracy doesn't work, in spite of what you say about popular votes and majority rule. Democracy is about compromise and inclusion, not about winning or who's right and who's wrong. I still think Trump is a buffoon and I would never in a million years vote for him or his party, but I'm hopeful some productive things can get done while he's in office. And if something gets said or done that people don't like, protest it. Like Trump himself says, if the other side is going to go to an extreme sometimes you have to go to extremes to meet in the middle.
manitoubass2 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 Netminder, I may be incorrect but the only message Ive heard from liberals/millenials rioting (thats right its not protesting), is that they want to abolish the electoral college because Trump won that but Hillary won majority vote. In interviews, these people dont even know the electoral college has played a huge part in deciding presidential elections since when??? Off the top of my head Ill say 1786 or 88. Its nothing new. Its there because 50% of people in the US live in less than 5% of US landmass. Imagine if they didnt have the electoral college? Then Hillary would have won the presidency, but Trump WOULD BE VICE PRESIDENT. Imagine that...
manitoubass2 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 Actually wait, I correct myself. Bernie would be one or the other as it wasnt two party system then.
Joeytier Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 Haven't we figured out what happens when these discussions pop up? This is becoming sad.
aplumma Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 So I guess this political thread is OK but the other one wasn't?? The biases are obvious. Nuff said!! Break this rule and it will also be locked. Debate is encouraged, but please follow the basic guidelines of debate. No name calling. Back up your claims with proof. Don't get your knickers in a knot if someone disagrees. KEEP IT CIVIL! Threads that are negative in tone or are inflammatory including political or religious will be locked if they are deemed to be detrimental to OFC's community feel. This board is about bringing people together it has no tolerance for snipping or bashing members or non members either for their beliefs or country of origin. Things that will not be tolerated. Flaming, baiting, name calling, prejudice, racism, sexism, sexual comments and inuendos, swearing, spam, and general boorishness. Let me give all of you a little insight. This board is frequented by both Canadians and US citizens like it or not. 45% of the ISP are from the US looking for fishing info. The site makes enough money by selling advertisements to Canadian places wanting the US Citizens to come and spend money. The balance of money is from the traffic from Google to pay the bills if either one of them leaves then this board closes it is that simple. Stop the whining and sniping I want this board to survive for all of the people to have a place to share there lives it needs to be friendly to the people who are 8 years old till the grave. We have in the past had threats made against the owners or moderators and since I am 12 hours away I get to be the Ax man since no one is stupid enough to come down here and face my form of justice. If you want to take shots at people or whine about the rules that were written by Canadians as well as myself then P.M. me and i will close your account. My first choice is to have everyone coexist I do nothing that is personal I enforce the rules.... Sorry for the interruption of this thread Art Co Owner
Dutch01 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 (edited) Art, I hesitate to speak for SirCranks here but I think what he was pointing out is that he had one post knocking Trump and was scolded, while this thread is a literal pile on against anything perceived as "liberal/democratic" or "millennial". EDIT: a literal pile on is hyperbolic I admit. Could have chosen my words more carefully there.... I don't want to make your job any harder, I like visiting this site and I appreciate what you do to make it possible. I'm only saying if we don't want to chase *any* members away, then you have to swing the banhammer both ways. And please not at me for this post ? Edited November 11, 2016 by Dutch01
Dutch01 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 (edited) Netminder, I may be incorrect but the only message Ive heard from liberals/millenials rioting (thats right its not protesting), is that they want to abolish the electoral college because Trump won that but Hillary won majority vote. In interviews, these people dont even know the electoral college has played a huge part in deciding presidential elections since when??? Off the top of my head Ill say 1786 or 88. Its nothing new. Its there because 50% of people in the US live in less than 5% of US landmass. Imagine if they didnt have the electoral college? Then Hillary would have won the presidency, but Trump WOULD BE VICE PRESIDENT. Imagine that... FYI, it's actually pretty rare to have a President who lost the popular vote, it's only happened 5 times in US history (1824, 1876,1888, 2000 and 2016). Just did the math, there have been 56 Presidential elections, so just under 9% of elections have had this outcome. Edited November 11, 2016 by Dutch01
netminder Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 FYI, it's actually pretty rare to have a President who lost the popular vote, it's only happened 5 times in US history (1824, 1876,1888, 2000 and 2016). Just did the math, there have been 56 Presidential elections, so just under 9% of elections have had this outcome. And this was the same thing that got Michael Moore all fired up in one of his "documentaries" probably the 2000 one -- Oh, and lo and behold he's back in the limelight lately too. I don't know if reforming the electoral college is exactly what they're protesting, other than the fact it would let them get their way. I think it's genuine fear of more discrimination and hate crime against them (speaking of visible minorities, Muslims, women, etc.). But aren't we getting too focused on the president? The house and senate are both controlled by the republicans too.
Dutch01 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 And this was the same thing that got Michael Moore all fired up in one of his "documentaries" probably the 2000 one -- Oh, and lo and behold he's back in the limelight lately too. I don't know if reforming the electoral college is exactly what they're protesting, other than the fact it would let them get their way. I think it's genuine fear of more discrimination and hate crime against them (speaking of visible minorities, Muslims, women, etc.). But aren't we getting too focused on the president? The house and senate are both controlled by the republicans too. My personal opinion is that a Prime Minister or President should be someone my Son can look up to as a role model. Even if he or she is of a different political stripe, they should model responsible adult behaviour at a minimum.
aplumma Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 Dutch so far the people have stated facts and backed them up all within the rules. I do not have a preference on Dem or Rep it is a label that is as vague as American or Canadian in my eyes. thank you for pointing this out but it is not my motive but I can now appreciate it now. Art
manitoubass2 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 FYI, it's actually pretty rare to have a President who lost the popular vote, it's only happened 5 times in US history (1824, 1876,1888, 2000 and 2016). Just did the math, there have been 56 Presidential elections, so just under 9% of elections have had this outcome. Yeah Im aware, but thanks for crunching the number Dutch? The fact remains, electoral votes get you elected, not the popular vote. I wonder the outcome had the dems had sanders instead of Hillary??? He seemed to have a massive following. And IMO was probably the best candidate out of the 3, even though im not a fan of any of them myself. The last I actually liked was Ron Paul
davey buoy Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 My take is simple,the American people voted,gave him a majority,done. Same thing here,who voted for ours ?
T-Bone Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 Still... I'm flabbergasted that Canadians know this much about the American political system, and seemingly have deep-seated opinions about it. Do they teach it in school up there or something?
manitoubass2 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 Still... I'm flabbergasted that Canadians know this much about the American political system, and seemingly have deep-seated opinions about it. Do they teach it in school up there or something? I just enjoy learning. I read about politics in other nations as well. I can only speak for myself however(and for the record I am American/Canadian)
davey buoy Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 Bet you ,most know the USA candidates and more than they know our own. True.
Dutch01 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 (edited) Still... I'm flabbergasted that Canadians know this much about the American political system, and seemingly have deep-seated opinions about it. Do they teach it in school up there or something? There's an old saying that when the USA sneezes Canada catches cold. You are our largest trading partner, a market 10 times our size right next door. It's at least partly self-preservation on our part. Edited November 11, 2016 by Dutch01
Dutch01 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 http://babylonbee.com/news/police-calm-millennial-protesters-handing-participation-trophies/ This is literally a satire site like the onion, I hope this was posted as a joke.
John Bacon Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 (edited) In interviews, these people dont even know the electoral college has played a huge part in deciding presidential elections since when??? Off the top of my head Ill say 1786 or 88. Its nothing new. Its there because 50% of people in the US live in less than 5% of US landmass. The electoral college doesn't really address that. More populous states get more votes (California has 55, while some states only have 3). Within the states, big cities have more influence than small towns. If measure by land area, the Republicans got about 90% of Illinois; but the Democrats got Chicago so the state went blue. Even with the electoral college, each states influence in the college is roughly equivalent to its population; within each state, each city or towns influence is based on it's population. So the electoral college does not change the fact the big cities (where most people live) have more clout than rural areas (which have most of the land). The reason that Trump was able to win the college while loosing the popular vote was because he won some big states by close margins while Hillary won her big states by large margins. Trump picked all of the votes for Pennsylvania, Florida, and Michigan by winning just a few more votes than Hillary in those states. If you win the state you win the state regardless of how close it is. Hillary earned a lot of the popular vote by her landslide victories in California and New York. But there is no advantage to winning by big margins. Imagine if they didnt have the electoral college? Then Hillary would have won the presidency, but Trump WOULD BE VICE PRESIDENT. I don't follow your logic on that one. With or without the electoral college, I don't think the second place finisher gets to be vice president. Edited November 11, 2016 by JohnBacon
leaf4 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 (edited) From what I've gathered on the whole process is people choose what info they find, they search for the information that fuels the hate against trump and it's ignorance is bliss when it come to the wikileaks against Hillary. I see people whining about how bad Trump is etc, they haven't bothered researching to make sure their behind is nice and clean. I saw a video the other day after the election and it was literally the first pro trump anything I have seen on TV, I have watched some online personalities like Tomi Lahren spout about trump and how great he is and how great it will be but she's so far right wing it's unbearable at times. Here's a video you'd NEVER see on CNN or any other left wing bias media outlets because it would skew the obvious pictures they are painting and agenda they are pushing. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10150681022754943&id=510814942 Edit: as much as I didn't care about this election at all, I figured Hillary would win riding the coat tails of Obamas success, so I was kind of surprised that trump did win, and what can I say, I'm optimistic for them, he's a wildcard and not the person the left wings push as a misogynist etc, I really do like the idea of a non politician bucking the system Edited November 11, 2016 by Lucas F
manitoubass2 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 Bet you ,most know the USA candidates and more than they know our own. True. Like dutch said. Plus its driven into your brain if you watch MSM etc. But yeah Id agree. But thats not solely Canadians, many other countries follow the most influential country on earth as well. It doesnt stop at politics/governance either. Fashion, music, sports etc as well
manitoubass2 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 (edited) Another thing ive noticed in this election. After Trump survived primaries, as did Hillary, many that voted Trump for POTUS weren't voting for Trump based on personality/leadership/platform. They were voting "anti establishment" and or "anti professional politician/political dynasty". Just another thing to consider. Also, why do people label Trump as a mysogynist? Either I completely missed something or people are perhaps using the wrong term??? Edited November 11, 2016 by manitoubass2
Dutch01 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 (edited) Break this rule and it will also be locked. Debate is encouraged, but please follow the basic guidelines of debate. No name calling. Back up your claims with proof. Don't get your knickers in a knot if someone disagrees. KEEP IT CIVIL! Threads that are negative in tone or are inflammatory including political or religious will be locked if they are deemed to be detrimental to OFC's community feel. This board is about bringing people together it has no tolerance for snipping or bashing members or non members either for their beliefs or country of origin. Things that will not be tolerated. Flaming, baiting, name calling, prejudice, racism, sexism, sexual comments and inuendos, swearing, spam, and general boorishness. Let me give all of you a little insight. This board is frequented by both Canadians and US citizens like it or not. 45% of the ISP are from the US looking for fishing info. The site makes enough money by selling advertisements to Canadian places wanting the US Citizens to come and spend money. The balance of money is from the traffic from Google to pay the bills if either one of them leaves then this board closes it is that simple. Stop the whining and sniping I want this board to survive for all of the people to have a place to share there lives it needs to be friendly to the people who are 8 years old till the grave. We have in the past had threats made against the owners or moderators and since I am 12 hours away I get to be the Ax man since no one is stupid enough to come down here and face my form of justice. If you want to take shots at people or whine about the rules that were written by Canadians as well as myself then P.M. me and i will close your account. My first choice is to have everyone coexist I do nothing that is personal I enforce the rules.... Sorry for the interruption of this thread Art Co Owner Dutch so far the people have stated facts and backed them up all within the rules. I do not have a preference on Dem or Rep it is a label that is as vague as American or Canadian in my eyes. thank you for pointing this out but it is not my motive but I can now appreciate it now. Art Art, I certainly didn't mean to question your motives. I was simply pointing out my perception of bias. I am going to say my piece and then leave you alone. I'm going to quote a few members but I am not calling out individuals, I have no personal bias against these members. Millennials with nothing better to do than cry and pout when they don't get their way. They don't like to work unless it's on their terms (meaning come in late, leave early, and spend the day on Facebook). They believe protesting is just as important as working...crying out for someone to recognize something they say as being valuable or worthy...which it rarely is. I"m sure this will ruffle some, but I'm only going on what I see around me. I've stop hiring Millennials which is sad, but a few bad apples have spoiled it for all the rest. I heard a quote from a Millennial in Portland that stated they're setting an example for all Americans on how to stand up for what is right. What a joke. Since when is destruction of property and assault 'right'? How about stand behind a lawfully elected official...and don't throw a tantrum when your candidate loses. This is hardly civil and most certainly negative and demeaning to all members who may be "millennial". It is a broad brushed characterization of an entire segment of society. All millennials pout and cry when they don't get their way? All millennials don't like to work? They, as a group, rarely have anything valuable or interesting or worthy to say? Can we be more condescending to a whole segment of society? Perhaps yes, but this is pretty good hit job without expanding on it. If you replaced the word millennial with any identifiable minority the post takes on a very different meaning (NOT suggesting that T-Bone feels this way or anything like that!). I would hazard a guess that we not only have millennial members, but would like to attract some more. Just sayin' Not hard to understand at all Cliff when you realize the instigators are all paid to cause trouble by George Soros. For instance the protesters in Austin Texas were all bused in to create havoc!!! http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3492176/posts These protesters are being gathered by the same people that did it during the election. It's all the doing of a billionaire globalist trying to cause a revolution in the US to get his way. We can only hope the evil old man croaks soon. http://dennismichaellynch.com/soros-funded-group-organizing-massive-anti-trump-protests-nationwide/ Two issues here. One, it's not at all civil to wish people dead. If SirCranks had wished Trump dead, would that be okay? Second, you indicate that members should back up their claims with "proof". Free Republic is literally the National Enquirer of alt-right conspiracy theory websites. If this is the burden of proof required than I can say literally anything as long as it exists anywhere on the internet and I source it. Art, if you're too busy to deal with this line of inquiry I have no issue if you don't reply to me. I will live without validation! DRIFTER and T-Bone, I'm sure this will ring hollow but nothing personal against either of you. Feel free to rebut me or not. EDIT: In case it's not clear, I am not questioning the members themselves here, but rather the degree to which their posts comply with the new rule on political threads, Edited November 11, 2016 by Dutch01
aplumma Posted November 11, 2016 Report Posted November 11, 2016 Nope no refute you win They have broken the rules by definition of the rules thanks for your help. Damned if I do and damned if I don't will cause me to take the easiest path. I wish you all would make up your mind I let this go with a lax hand and get flack. You all wonder why political threads are going to be locked really fast this is the reason they are the only ones that I can't read and forget. Art
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