Dutch01 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) He's in a "no win situation" there though. If he tries to keep the promise he's pilloried for "ramming it through". He instead decides to delay the plan to allow for more time to process security checks, which the conservatives were demanding, and now they're rubbing their hands and saying "see he broke a promise". You can't have it both ways. When Harper had a majority it was okay to say "but he had a majority so this is what Canadians want", but now that "the other guy" has a majority and the shoe is on the other foot, I'm seeing a lot of foot stamping going on. I'm not loyal to either party, I try to focus on the issues, but I have to admit to a bit of schadenfreude right now. Edited November 25, 2015 by Dutch01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister G Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Obama was saying they are geographically contained, and that is still factually correct. I will concede the timing was bad in terms of optics. The problem is the USA doesn't have news organizations trying to educate citizens on the news. They have partisan controlled media attack machines that don't really care about the truth so long as they score points on Obama. Don't you mean FOR Obama as most US media is liberal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dara Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Possibly, he should stop and think a bit more before he makes promises he can't keep. During the election when he said it, everybody said it was impossible. I like how he just sent cabinet ministers to make the anouncement and was a no show himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxie Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Don't blame the US for being attacked on 9/11........ YES, you are correct........leave them all THERE..........there are many other VERY WEALTHY Arab countries to take these refuges in, so why are they heading here. BTW Obama already said that ISIS is contained, so then it's safe for them to stay there ! ! ! What happened on 9/11 wasnt deserved but it was and inevitable result of a foreign policy that had run amok and became little more than a self serving excersize. My reference was to how quick the US govt was to throw whatever evidence they could at the UN to get their blessing and storm in there, turn upside down a place that the "Tyrant" had firmly under control then dust themselves off and leave without implementing the proper tools in place and make sure the transitional force stayed as long as needed. They are directly responsible for the spawn of this band of misfits reigning terror worldwide. Its not my opinion either its just the way it is. Edited November 25, 2015 by moxie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch01 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Don't you mean FOR Obama as most US media is liberal.I'm not sure that's accurate, both parties have arms length media puppets. I don't watch CNN but they few times I have seen it they were slagging Obama. To be fair, I see both parties doing it, not just the GOP. Edited November 25, 2015 by Dutch01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch01 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Possibly, he should stop and think a bit more before he makes promises he can't keep. During the election when he said it, everybody said it was impossible. I like how he just sent cabinet ministers to make the anouncement and was a no show himself If we didn't attempt anything because others said it was impossible, we would never accomplish anything. I believe if you didn't vote, you don't have the right to complain about the government. If you did vote, you have the right to complain. An effective opposition is as important to governance as an effective government. The problem as I see it is that crying that the sky is falling on every issue is not being an effective opposition. In the USA, the GOP is willing to filibuster or any other tactic they can to actually stop the government from functioning. This is contrary to the will of the people, who elected Obama. I think this has hurt the Republican image in the minds of millions of Americans. It doesn't serve the Republican interest, or the country's interest to be that way. Edited November 25, 2015 by Dutch01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch01 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 What happened on 9/11 wasnt deserved but it was and inevitable result of a foreign policy that had run amok and became little more than a self serving excersize. My reference was to how quick the US govt was to throw whatever evidence they could at the UN to get their blessing and storm in there, turn upside down a place that the "Tyrant" had firmly under control then dust themselves off and leave without implementing the proper tools in place and make sure the transitional force stayed as long as needed. They are directly responsible for the spawn of this band of misfits reigning terror worldwide. Its not my opinion either its just the way it is. Credit where credit is due - great post moxie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.mech Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 What happened on 9/11 wasnt deserved but it was and inevitable result of a foreign policy that had run amok and became little more than a self serving excersize. My reference was to how quick the US govt was to throw whatever evidence they could at the UN to get their blessing and storm in there, turn upside down a place that the "Tyrant" had firmly under control then dust themselves off and leave without implementing the proper tools in place and make sure the transitional force stayed as long as needed. They are directly responsible for the spawn of this band of misfits reigning terror worldwide. Its not my opinion either its just the way it is. Not to mention the other Tyrants they overthrew (or helped overthrow) in various other places such as Libya. Unfortunately, some of these tyrants were the reason worse people weren't in power to begin with...they weren't very nice people but they had the bad assess under control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxie Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) By the way. Liberals and other socialists have had the fear mongering market cornered for years. They prey on the fears of the weak. Edited November 25, 2015 by moxie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch01 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) No offence taken but you are exactly what you claim me and others like me are. On the outside looking in eh? When the party you voted for shows itself not to be who you thought they were and leave you with nothing and on the outside looking in, my heart will not bleed for any of you. Thats not mean spirited. Thats just the way its going to be.I been there, done that, when I was young(er) and naive, and held my nose while I voted for Harper. The Liberals are not my party, so I won't be let down. I follow the long Canadian tradition of voting for the "least worst" option. This time around, I felt the Liberals were the "least worst". That doesn't mean they get a rubber stamp from me, and I will not be surprised if they don't live up to their promises (like every other governing party in my lifetime). Edited November 25, 2015 by Dutch01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Not to mention the other Tyrants they overthrew (or helped overthrow) in various other places such as Libya. Unfortunately, some of these tyrants were the reason worse people weren't in power to begin with...they weren't very nice people but they had the bad assess under control. You know, at one point I was CONvinced these leaders were so horrible. But once you look into it deeper, youll find its rarely the case. One thing they all have in common is they speak truth and condemn israel and the US Then poof, they are dead or their countries are invaded unjustly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxie Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Not to mention the other Tyrants they overthrew (or helped overthrow) in various other places such as Libya. Unfortunately, some of these tyrants were the reason worse people weren't in power to begin with...they weren't very nice people but they had the bad assess under control. Exactly my point. Put them there to begin with and when they fail to tow your line its time to expidite their removal and consequences be damned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 You know, at one point I was CONvinced these leaders were so horrible. But once you look into it deeper, youll find its rarely the case. One thing they all have in common is they speak truth and condemn israel and the US Then poof, they are dead or their countries are invaded unjustly They were horrible... but their replacements are often more horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch01 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 By the way. Liberals and other socialists are fear mongering experts. I don't agree with this at all. To hear Harper tell it, Justin was "just not ready", and the sky would fall on election night if we voted for him. The PC's spent more money and time on attack ads and negative politics than in any other Canadian election I can recall. Canadians didn't buy it, and now the conservative party is on the outside looking in. They couldn't even muster opposition status, so soundly were they rejected. The Liberals accused Harper of eroding basic rights and freedoms, and they were correct (see Bill C51). They accused Harper of being divisive, and they were correct. They accused Harper of being behind the times, and for me personally, this is reflected in the fact he ignores science and the will of the people because of his personal beliefs (on issues such as the drug war for example). However, when science didn't suit his agenda, as in the case of climate change, he just dismissed science and muzzled our scientists so they couldn't tell Canadians the truth. This is not a man fit to lead. People who put belief ahead of science and fact are fundamentalists and no different than the Saudi's. The jury is still out on Trudeau, at least for anyone with on open mind. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxie Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I been there, done that, when I was young(er) and naive, and held my nose while I voted for Harper. The Liberals are not my party, so I won't be let down. I follow the long Canadian tradition of voting for the "least worst" option. This time around, I felt the Liberals were the "least worst". That doesn't mean they get a rubber stamp from me, and I will not be surprised if they don't live up to their promises (like every other governing party in my lifetime). Like ive said before, I hope this kid can do good for Canada and Canadians but he won a popularity contest not an election and that that leaves me with little hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 They were horrible... but their replacements are often more horrible. Horrible by our standards??? They have different traditions/law and its not up to us to dictate their way of life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch01 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Horrible by our standards??? They have different traditions/law and its not up to us to dictate their way of life I'm pretty sure he was saying Saddam and Gaddafi were horrible, not the general public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I'm pretty sure he was saying Saddam and Gaddafi were horrible, not the general public. And how were they horrible? Or more horrible than the west? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch01 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Like ive said before, I hope this kid can do good for Canada and Canadians but he won a popularity contest not an called an election and that that leaves me with little hope. Fixed that for you.... Edited November 25, 2015 by Dutch01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Saddams trial was eery but these "leaders" spoke alot of truth. Many of their hardships come from the west/nato and UN. Western media demonized them but many on those regions were happy people, and successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch01 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 And how were they horrible? Or more horrible than the west? While you may think they have some redeeming qualities, and that may be true, they were almost universally recognized by their own people to be cruel despots. They sponsored terrorism, kidnapped, tortured and murder political opposition, and stole from their nation to enrich themselves. By that measure at least, they were horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 While you may think they have some redeeming qualities, and that may be true, they were almost universally recognized by their own people to be cruel despots. They sponsored terrorism, kidnapped, tortured and murder political opposition, and stole from their nation to enrich themselves. By that measure at least, they were horrible. You just described the west to a t, thank you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch01 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 You just described the west to a t, thank you? Hey, I never said the Western leaders weren't horrible too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmer Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Humanity says we should do whatever possible to help the innocents that are being terrorized. I am going to suffer from Government deficits until I retire with nothing, but I like living in a country that helps others in need. Hopefully there might be some help for me when I need it. I am naïve - not really. It's good to help though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxie Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Fixed that for you.... Naw, I had it right. It was a popularity contest. Thanks just the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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