Geothermal Heat Pump? NF

[DanD]

My son is looking at buying a house that has a geothermal HVAC system installed. Not exactly sure how old the system is; but less then a decade.

Does anyone here have some experience with geothermal closed loop systems? From the reading I've done on the system that I believe is installed there (don't know the manufacturer); it uses a well (not your water supply water well) and a grid of pipes that circulates the same water from the well, through the grid, to some form of ex-changer in the house and then back to the well?

What are the downfalls with these systems???

What needs to be checked when inspecting the system?

Is there anyone here that could recommend a company, too do a proper inspection?

I doubt a regular home inspector would have competency, with these systems.

 

Dan.

[Steve]

interesting. don't hear of many residential geothermal systems these days. I only know a little about these systems, however, the system that you mean, an open loop water system, is the least common of the three standard systems. Vertical loop, horizontal loop, and open water/pond loop are the three systems. I've never actually seen a pond loop system in use. I understand these are the toughest systems to install and maintain, because they are open loop. The horizontal loop and vertical loop systems are both closed loop, using a sealed glycol system. These systems run smoothly, but are more often used on commercial and industrial buildings, as it takes a lot of power consumption before truly seeing net benefits.

 

GeoSource Energy is one of the best in the business. I just checked their site and they appear to do some residential work. At minimum, they would recommend a better shop if they aren't suited best for residential work. Give them a call or check out their site.

 

http://geosourceenergy.com/

 

You are correct as well about a regular home inspector. They would just put on the report to hire a competent inspector with geothermal specialty.

[DRIFTER_016]

The house we owned in Grand Valley had a heat pump.

There are 3 types of heat pumps.

1/ Takes warmth or cold out of the ambient air (least efficient)

2/ Takes warmth or cold out of the ground (AKA Ground Source HEeat Pump) that uses a buried set of pipes to run liquid through to the exchanger (Mid effieciency)

3/ Takes warmth or cold out of a water source (well) and runs it through the exchanger and back to a holding pond or back into the well (most efficient) .

 

Ours was #3. Water was pumped out of our well (same one that supplied water to the home) into the house and through the heat pump where the heat was extracted in the winter and cold in the summer. Our house was a 2800 sf bungalow with full basement and it cost 1/2 of what our previous house 1500 sf) in Mississauga cost to heat/cool on gas.

[Gerritt]

Be sure to ask average hydro rates. Geo can be good... But the hydro costs can out weigh the benefits...

 

G

[DanD]

From the propaganda I've read, most are saying one unit of energy consumed by the geothermal system, it returns 4-5 units of cooling or heating; compared to a conventional HVAC system?

Our concern is, if the system in the house is a "good" system; what are the cost of up keep?

If the geo system craps out, his heating would be fired by propane or electricity, after the house was converted too.

I guess that's my question; how reliable are these systems?

 

Dan.

[MrSimon]

Downfalls:

 

Pumps are expensive to replace when they break.

 

In really cold temps, you have to have an auxiliary heating system in addition to geothermal heat. Geothermal can't keep up if the temps get below 20ish (f) and then something else has to do the rest. Usually that means electric heat, which is very expensive. In cold climates, geothermal is not cost effective due to this.

 

Benefits:

 

Geothermal is an excellent and cost effective way to cool a house in the summer.

 

It's a fairly simple system and the pumps and heat exchanger tend to last quite a bit longer than regular heat pumps or gas/oil furnaces.

Edited June 1, 2015 by MrSimon

[DanD]

Well I guess that's why this house has two gas (propane) fire places and a rec-room wood/gas stove combination???

If I know my daughter in-law 50 aint gonna do it!!!! LOL

Like I said above, reading the propaganda from the manufacturers, none has said anything about supplemental heat; that they'll likely need here in our winters.

That's why I came here too ask; true to life experiences.

Thanks; but keep the replies coming; may give my son some bartering power?

He/they both really like this place. Don't know the square footage of the house; but it's a 5 bedroom, 3 bath ranch, with a 25' X 30' attached garage. The bonus of a 30' X 50' 2 story work shop; the shop is heated and plumbed, the second story is completely finished and a man cave dream.

 

Dan.

[wkrp]

We had a closed vertical system installed a few years ago and couldnt be happier . The energy savings are phenominal, the system runs perfectly, free hot water in the winter time and very cheap ac in the summer. The largest upfront cost is in the installation of the loop . I say go for it. We have no regrets.

[DanD]

We had a closed vertical system installed a few years ago and couldnt be happier . The energy savings are phenominal, the system runs perfectly, free hot water in the winter time and very cheap ac in the summer. The largest upfront cost is in the installation of the loop . I say go for it. We have no regrets.

 

 

 

Sounds good Thanks.

 

Dan.

[Paudash]

I have this system in my house and works great, only maintenance is the water filter that has to be cleaned every 2-3 weeks in heating and cooling season. This takes about 2 minutes to do so no real issue. I moved into the house 2 years ago and it is about 1200 square feet and about 60 years old, we moved from a 2500 square foot 5 year old house. I find the hydro bills to be about a third of what my old house was in the summer while running the air conditioning and about 2x the the winter bills but no gas bill so works out way cheaper.

 

When you do more research you will find the system works very efficiently for air conditioning and heating until the outside temp gets down below minus 5

 

to get the best bang for your buck have a wood stove put in to help out in December, January and February when it is really cold.

[Woodsman]

Is there anyone here that could recommend a company, too do a proper inspection?

 

Buchanan & Hall in Stratford does a lot of work in that field & is not that far from the London area.

Possibally may have done the system you are looking at.

Holmes on Homes has used them as their expert on these systems.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Woodsman

[OhioFisherman]

One of my next door neighbors had one of those systems installed around 10 years ago, I haven't heard any complaints from them.

 

Their system required a lot of trenching in their yard to install the piping, I have no idea how you could inspect the piping without digging it up again, they probably have some sort of leakage indicator?

 

The piping was buried deeply, 6-10 feet? As I understand it the ground temperature at that depth here is fairly constant, like 55 degrees? So heating from a constant 55 degree temp is less costly that from an outdoor air intake in the winter. The cooling benefits in summer should be obvious?

 

Just from cursory data I have see it probably won't work as well in areas of permafrost? and I have seen some other data that shows the area around 350-400 miles south of me averages 62 degrees at the same depth there, so less cooling? but still great than the summer air?

 

 

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/energy/geothermal-energy.htm

[DanD]

They're having another look at this property today; so he'll be able to find out who the manufacturer and hopefully the installer is?

Thanks for the replies.

 

Dan.

[Novacraft]

Installed one 5 years ago couldn't be happier....if the ground loop or well isn't sized right then it won't perform efficiently I have never had my back up (resistance) heater come on once yet....do the research before buying...

[Steve]

great to hear Novacraft!!!