Lake Ranger Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 Hi, just wondering..I thought that you need a permit to dump sand on a shoreline. There was no permit issued for this. I have two pictures here, one taken in the fall of 2010, and one taken this weekend. The one taken in 2010 shows the shoreline as it was for over 25 years. Please let me know if this is right or not. Seems like the turtle fence isn't providing any purpose either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_hooked Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 Looks like the guy is trying to contain the sand.. In the past you (short time ago - 3 years at most) you needed permit from the DFO (dep't of Fisheries and Oceans).. for any shore development that may affect fish habitat and other aquatic life... Then they (the DFO) found out they were so swamped with minor appications (such as above) that they had no time left for the bigger picture... (like 4-laning Hwy. 69 between Alban and Sudbury). When that brain storm came along... (duh..!) ... they immediately suspended consruction on Hwy. 69 for a whole year while the proper? invironemental study was done.. But how many Banting turtles.. must you relocate before givng the MOT the go ahead on the highway project...? Anyway the results are now (for private land owners)... no DFO permits are required as long as you go by their suggested guiide lines.. (you get a nice paper laying it all out). However what is less known is that you are still required to have permits issues by the MOE and the MNR for any such projects... Welcome to beaucrazy run amock...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Ranger Posted May 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 Hi, and thanks for the info! Do you still need a permit from the MOE and the MNR if this has been re-zoned from rural/agricultural to commercial?Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4bassin Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 I'm no expert on the subject but have had experience with this in the past with regards to changing fish habitat and I would say that's a significant change and would require some sort of permit or MNR interaction . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Ranger Posted May 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 I agree, thank you, and I found an interesting fact sheet with respect your comment regarding habitat change at http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/regions/central/pub/shore-rivages-on/04-eng.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Caster Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 The re-zoning issue would be a municipal issue...talk to the township about that, the local conservation authority and/or environmental dept might be interested in this. As far as changing the shoreline and creating a beach, well, usually its a big no-no and can be a very ignorant move for other people and/or the aquatic life and the MNR would require permits: http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/CrownLand/2ColumnSubPage/STEL02_165788.html If its considered Federal waters, then the DFO would be the interested party. In addition, that second photo makes me laugh, he/she clearly intended to place fine sand into the lake and yet in their clear concern for the lake they put up a silt fence and don't maintain it. haha. This could a good example of things that would have been protected by the feds (DFO) on federal waterways in the past and now, with the new legislation either gets removed and/or under-enforced. If these are provincial waters then it's definitly the MNR or the local Cons. Auth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishindevil Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 It also depends on if the area is deemed a sensitive zone or a protected area such as a sanctuary or not !!! My fishing buddy in Bancroft area is on a lake deemed a sensitive area I believe they rate it on a scale?? And he had to get permission to have his dock posts touch the lake bottom !!! They wanted him to use a floating dock !!! The MNR has also cited a cottagers for cutting a dozen trees on the shoreline as well !!! And they said if a tree falls in the lake on the shoreline you are not to remove it unless it impedes navigation but his lake is landlocked so wasn't an issue so I guess it depends I will ask him next time I'm there !!! But I live herein sturgeon lake and people have cleared all the shoreline and pretty much do whatever they want except build new boathouses they are declining those permits unless you have lots of money then they do a study it's not a clear law how its ok in some areas and not others ??? Good question though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatnFly Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 thats a lot of shore line reconstruction, i know in a lot of parts of ontario, that shore line development is prohibited, that you must keep your shoreline looking natural, i know someone that got dinged because their deck was too close to the shore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizzo Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 my guess would be that was not allowed, but if this person is your neighbour I don't think you will have very good neighbourly relations should you turn them in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinker Posted May 29, 2013 Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 Let me guess.......ne owners from the city? Why don't they just buy a place with a sandy shoreline? S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted May 29, 2013 Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 Is the area under the jurisdiction of a Conservation Authority or is it MNR? If there is a CA present, start there. DFO has an Operational Statement about beach creation http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/regions/central/habitat/os-eo/provinces-territories-territoires/on/os-eo02-eng.htm but this doesn't look like it meets the criteria. If it was reviewed for impacts under the Fisheries Act, it likely came out as low risk and may have gone under a Letter of Advice. The sand may have also been placed on Crown Land, in which case the Public Lands Act applies. Figuring out which laws may have been broken can be complicated so as I said start with either the local Conservation Authority or MNR office. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Ranger Posted May 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 Hi Everyone, thanks for all your input. This is happening in the Municipality of West Nipissing. I've been told by the Municipality that they are 'lenient' when it comes to things like this as they are over an hour away from the site of the situation and they have no 'access' to the lake. This is not Crown Land. It was purchased and re-zoned for commercial use despite a heated dispute years ago. There were certain restrictions set in place in order to grant the re-zoning and over the years, none have been met. 'Neighbours' are already getting tired of having things like this happen on the lake with no oversight, monitoring or concern from the Municipality. Basically if you ask for advice or direction, you're labelled a NIMBY. So stuff like this just keeps happening over and over and over again with no regard for 'neighbours' the lake, animal/plant/fish habitat, etc, adjacent property owners or anything. It's a very secluded lake, it's basically a long river...'out of sight, out of mind' I guess, for the City. I don't want to come across as a snitch or expose anyone, I just want to know what is right and what is wrong. Thanks so much..just very concerned for many reasons, mainly environmental and political. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Caster Posted May 29, 2013 Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 If the municipality has knowledge of it and are not following their own mandate I would bring it up a level to the MNR and/or MOE. First, I would ask them to put their response in writting!!. You can also report a "siltation event" to the MOE and they'll investigate, especially if people draw water from the lake you can state that you have concerns for your drinking water. If someone wants a man-made waterway, why don't they just get a pool? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Ranger Posted May 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 All this is great information and advice and I do appreciate your comments! I think I will make some calls as every action that occurs here is just so hap-hazard and messy. Two folks with a dozer, a couple trailers, a generator a dump truck and a chain saw can't be considered proper 'developers'. I wonder if the adjacent property owner is aware of what's happening on their land. They just moved in at Christmas and haven't been to the lake yet. The stakes are clearly marked and the sand is already being washed away on the left of the photo on the neighbor's shoreline. If this is a 'no-no', would the neighboring property owners be liable for anything? This landing used to be completely natural...The photo with the boat was taken 15 years ago. Then, yes, folks from the 'city' came in 3 and a half years ago and decided to build a commercial campground on less than 25 acres with less than 300 ft of lake frontage, which is mostly rock except for the 20 feet or so where they are dumping loads of sand. No restrictions put in place by the Municipality in order to be granted the commercial zoning were honored and the Municipality doesn't want to hear about it. Time to say something to proper authorities, but I'm sure I'll be advised to mind my own business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish4Eyes Posted May 29, 2013 Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 Kick this up to the management level at the municipality and see if you get the same response. Even if the location is an hour away, there is nothing wrong with going on a site visit to investigate a potential wrong doing. Sounds like laziness on their part to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Caster Posted May 29, 2013 Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 Kick this up to the management level at the municipality and see if you get the same response. Even if the location is an hour away, there is nothing wrong with going on a site visit to investigate a potential wrong doing. Sounds like laziness on their part to me. Just ask the municipality to write you an email response saying that "it's an hour away" "we are being lenient" "we have no access". Take that email and walk into the Sudbury/North Bay MOE office. The MOE will be happy to help out I'm sure. If the municipality won't write you an email, tell them you have documented everything they have said... this will all light a fire under their butts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish4Eyes Posted May 29, 2013 Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 Just ask the municipality to write you an email response saying that "it's an hour away" "we are being lenient" "we have no access". Take that email and walk into the Sudbury/North Bay MOE office. The MOE will be happy to help out I'm sure. If the municipality won't write you an email, tell them you have documented everything they have said... this will all light a fire under their butts. Damn your good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Ranger Posted May 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 I am on it! THANK YOU! I wonder if there's anyone in the Municipality reading this and waiting for my call! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Posted May 29, 2013 Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 I am on it! THANK YOU! I wonder if there's anyone in the Municipality reading this and waiting for my call! Just print it out and show it to them, Maureen. You could probably send to a lot of people eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Ranger Posted May 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 Sure could Roy, I do see this as a political issue that is in dire need of some 'toon' exposure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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